Reflector Set-up for 3x6 Trays

[fortphoenix]

My buddy and I are setting up 4 flood trays side by side in his house for a perpetual cycle and we need suggestions! i made 2 diagrams to show our dilemma…

We would much rather use setup #1 because the ventilation would be cleaner looking but the problem with setup #1 is the long side of the bulb would be lined up with the long side of the tray... so i feel like the plants in the middle of the tray between the reflectors won’t be receiving much light

the problem with set up #2 is there’d have to be loose ventilation for when the plants have height differences which id rather not have because it looks messy plus I’m trying to keep the lights as close as possible to the plants which is why i want big reflectors, so the plants don’t block each others light with their shadows.

so should i do setup #1 or #2? and which reflector? the reflector measurements are in the pictures. if theres any other reflectors you’d recommend for my situation let me know!

we’re doing single cola s.o.g with phantom II ballasts and hortilux bulbs and the trays will be no more than 6-12 inches apart

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[Hushpuppy]

Given the size of the setup, I would have to say setup 1 for the simple reason that you will most likely be using 600w lights and stringing 4 of them together with 1 fan to cool them may not be enough cooling to prevent lamp failure. Plus if you are doing perpetual growing, you will have one end that is farther along and bigger than the ones on the other end, and that would make adjusting the light height more challenging.

 

[fortphoenix]

Given the size of the setup, I would have to say setup 1 for the simple reason that you will most likely be using 600w lights and stringing 4 of them together with 1 fan to cool them may not be enough cooling to prevent lamp failure. Plus if you are doing perpetual growing, you will have one end that is farther along and bigger than the ones on the other end, and that would make adjusting the light height more challenging.

yes sir, 600w bulbs and thats exactly my thoughts and the ventilation spread across at different heights would look terrible, plus it would cost about the same considering id have to get 8" a/c reflectors and 8" fans and the 6" fans use only 66watts and the 8' uses 232!... but do you think if i did setup #1 the plants in the middle of the tray between the reflectors would suffer or do yo think they'd be fine? I'm also a bit worried about wasted light but along as i keep the trays real close then guess the trays on the side can catch the lost light, i am a bit worried about the plants in the middle of the tray though

 

[Hushpuppy]

Please tell me the 6" fans aren't "duct fans" Don't use duct fans for anything other than a fan to blow on you while yer working. You need fans that are going to move at least 200cfm and they need to be "centrifugal" fans. These pups are expensive but they are a must have to achieve proper ventilation or you will fight tooth and nail with heat and fluffy bud. Been there and done that :doh:

Using those big hoods that close together, you will not have any problems with the plants standing along the center line between the 2 fixtures (center of the table). That is more than enough light to bathe them.

 

[Hushpuppy]

You need to try to find out about the light footprint of each hood as not all are the same. Also, bigger doesn't always mean better. If the Dominator is the largest and fits the top of the table, but it is made to throw a wider footprint then half of the light will be thrown off the table before it reaches the plants. This is why many people love tents as they have reflective walls that turn the light back to the plants. This is fine when the light has high penetration but you don't want that light travelling any farther than it has too. Try to find a hood that will create a light footprint that is a few inches past your table when its at 20" above it. That way you plants will grow up into that cone of max light energy.

 

[fortphoenix]

Please tell me the 6" fans aren't "duct fans" Don't use duct fans for anything other than a fan to blow on you while yer working. You need fans that are going to move at least 200cfm and they need to be "centrifugal" fans. These pups are expensive but they are a must have to achieve proper ventilation or you will fight tooth and nail with heat and fluffy bud. Been there and done that :doh:

Using those big hoods that close together, you will not have any problems with the plants standing along the center line between the 2 fixtures (center of the table). That is more than enough light to bathe them.

You need to try to find out about the light footprint of each hood as not all are the same. Also, bigger doesn't always mean better. If the Dominator is the largest and fits the top of the table, but it is made to throw a wider footprint then half of the light will be thrown off the table before it reaches the plants. This is why many people love tents as they have reflective walls that turn the light back to the plants. This is fine when the light has high penetration but you don't want that light travelling any farther than it has too. Try to find a hood that will create a light footprint that is a few inches past your table when its at 20" above it. That way you plants will grow up into that cone of max light energy.

yeah i heard centrifugal fans are especially good for exhaust (which is what i was going to use them for) but id be using the Vortex S-Line 6", 347 CFM if i used the 6" fan I'm not sure what kind of fan this would be labeled as though but i was thinking of using "the big kahuna" because someone on another forum uses 3 of them for 4x8 tables doing the exact method id be doing with amazing results and it seems like the light would disperse on the table more of how i want it too by the way the reflectors shaped, i just hope the reflector would work good with phantom ballasts because HTG hydro make hoods and ballasts and their ballast is probably better suited for their reflectors and the phantom ballast is probably better suited for the raptor reflector... or am i over thinking it again and the ballast/hood brands/combinations don't really matter? lol I was also looking at the 6" blockbuster ballasts, they're 25.5" square so i think one might be really good for a 3x3 (or 2 for 3x6) I'm just a bit concerned about when i put the lights really close there will be a lot of shadowing

 

[Hushpuppy]

The ballasts and reflector hoods have nothing to do with each other. The ballast only drives the power of the bulb. You can use any ballast with any reflector hood. The reflector hood is going to reflect down and out, any light that the bulb produces. Some reflectors will throw the light nearly straight down and form a light "footprint" that is not much bigger than the hood itself, while other hoods are made to scatter the light more and create a light "footprint" that is 2x the area of the hood itself. All of these "footprints" will expand as the hood is raised higher above the target area.

The vortex fans are very good. You may only need 2 of them for that setup. HOWEVER, the fewer fans will mean that you have to run them at full speed, which will make them louder. If noise is an issue that needs to be controlled then having more CFM with more fans or larger fans will allow you to use speed controllers that will slow the fans down and make them quieter while still giving the ventilation needed.

 

[fortphoenix]

The ballasts and reflector hoods have nothing to do with each other. The ballast only drives the power of the bulb. You can use any ballast with any reflector hood. The reflector hood is going to reflect down and out, any light that the bulb produces. Some reflectors will throw the light nearly straight down and form a light "footprint" that is not much bigger than the hood itself, while other hoods are made to scatter the light more and create a light "footprint" that is 2x the area of the hood itself. All of these "footprints" will expand as the hood is raised higher above the target area.

The vortex fans are very good. You may only need 2 of them for that setup. HOWEVER, the fewer fans will mean that you have to run them at full speed, which will make them louder. If noise is an issue that needs to be controlled then having more CFM with more fans or larger fans will allow you to use speed controllers that will slow the fans down and make them quieter while still giving the ventilation needed.

yeah the blockbuster hood throws the light straight down, I'm just afraid that because its only 25.5" that once the reflector is like 8" from the plants that the plants along the outside of the tray won't be getting much light... and I'm probably just going to be running the lights fans at full speed anyway so its easier to control the room temps and the temps are more steady. i have a speed controller on my vortex right now thats really nice to have but id rather have a controller on the exhaust, one that stays idle at all time that goes to full speed once it gets too hot, titan controllers make a device that does this called the mercury 4. now I'm also trying to figure out if i should throw 32 or 36 plants on the table because its single cola s.o.g

 

[Hushpuppy]

I would get the big Kahuna as it appears to have a good angle on it. With most of them, as you raise the hood, its going to widen the footprint some because of the nature of the reflective surfaces.
Its hard to say on the SOG. It really depends on the plants. If you can find someone who has grown them in SOG that can tell you how their structure is, maybe try to talk to the breeder and find out about the structure of the plants. If they are F1 or F2 then there will be significant variation in the phenotypes of the plants unless they are all cloned from a single plant.

 

[fortphoenix]

I would get the big Kahuna as it appears to have a good angle on it. With most of them, as you raise the hood, its going to widen the footprint some because of the nature of the reflective surfaces.
Its hard to say on the SOG. It really depends on the plants. If you can find someone who has grown them in SOG that can tell you how their structure is, maybe try to talk to the breeder and find out about the structure of the plants. If they are F1 or F2 then there will be significant variation in the phenotypes of the plants unless they are all cloned from a single plant.

the other good thing with the kahuna is you can adjust the light socket up/down/forward/back to adjust the light angle and the A/C flanges are adjustable on both sides and the dude that i know online that like perfected single cola sog used 3 600w kahunas but it was on a 4x8 table so its hard to decide between the kahuna and blockbuster because it'd be nice to have the kahunas if i ever decide to upgrade to 4x8 tables but yeah it all be clones from the same mothers. now another thing i need to figure out is what kind of plastic to use as a table top to suspend the net pots. not sure if i should use ABS or acrylic (extruded or cast)

 

[orangesunshine]

heck of a lot of bulbs you got there bro---if you have not purchased your hoods yet---you might consider having a look at Gavita lighting---fewer fixtures = less heat = less cleaning = less expense---higher wattage = higher yield---if i had to pick 1 of your examples i choose #1

 

[fortphoenix]

heck of a lot of bulbs you got there bro---if you have not purchased your hoods yet---you might consider having a look at Gavita lighting---fewer fixtures = less heat = less cleaning = less expense---higher wattage = higher yield---if i had to pick 1 of your examples i choose #1

yeah I'm definitely going with #1 and gavitas was what i originally planned on using till i realzed the height clearance id need to use them. i only have around 7'... and from the ground to the top of the pot plant is already 3+ feet

 

[Hushpuppy]

I honestly don't know. I personally think they would be too much for smaller grows but you have to check the lighting specs to be sure if they will work in that short of space. I know with the 600WHPS you need to keep at least 8"(I prefer 12") clearance between the tops of the plants and the lights so the intensity doesn't kill them. And if they decide to stretch a little, it could get "intense"

 

[grass hopper]

Please tell me the 6" fans aren't "duct fans" Don't use duct fans for anything other than a fan to blow on you while yer working. You need fans that are going to move at least 200cfm and they need to be "centrifugal" fans. These pups are expensive but they are a must have to achieve proper ventilation or you will fight tooth and nail with heat and fluffy bud. Been there and done that :doh:

You don't NEED a centrifugal "duct fan" to move more than 200 cm. My 6 inch diameter GROWBRIGHT high velocity "inline duct fan" runs up to 425 cm. Runs about $100. I run mine just below half speed. Keeps tent at 75 to 80 degrees. I run (3) 600 watts. Also a good size carbon filter. The glass stays cool enough to comfortably keep your hands on. On high speed I think I could run 5 or 6 lights (600 watts) inline.

 

[fortphoenix]

I honestly don't know. I personally think they would be too much for smaller grows but you have to check the lighting specs to be sure if they will work in that short of space. I know with the 600WHPS you need to keep at least 8"(I prefer 12") clearance between the tops of the plants and the lights so the intensity doesn't kill them. And if they decide to stretch a little, it could get "intense"

Then ill probably just go with the blockbuster then. the dude that i was talking about with the 4x8 said he cold keep the light a few inch from the glass (which i guess could be around 8" from the bulb depending where he had the socket adjusted in the kahuna) plus the blockbuster is mad for 3x3, so 3 of them could cover a 3x6 perfect

 

[fortphoenix]

Please tell me the 6" fans aren't "duct fans" Don't use duct fans for anything other than a fan to blow on you while yer working. You need fans that are going to move at least 200cfm and they need to be "centrifugal" fans. These pups are expensive but they are a must have to achieve proper ventilation or you will fight tooth and nail with heat and fluffy bud. Been there and done that :doh:

You don't NEED a centrifugal "duct fan" to move more than 200 cm. My 6 inch diameter GROWBRIGHT high velocity "inline duct fan" runs up to 425 cm. Runs about $100. I run mine just below half speed. Keeps tent at 75 to 80 degrees. I run (3) 600 watts. Also a good size carbon filter. The glass stays cool enough to comfortably keep your hands on. On high speed I think I could run 5 or 6 lights (600 watts) inline.

even though you keep the exhaust on half speed you still use a carbon filter rated for your fans top speed right? (around 425cfm) and the filter/exhaust still work good right? I'm going to have an 8" vortex for exhaust on a mercury 4 dim switch. the switch keeps the vortex on idle but if the room raises to a certain temp the fan goes on max speed

 

[Hushpuppy]

Grasshopper: that sounds like a fan that is specialized to produce pressure by not allowing air to bypass the fan. The standard attic duct fan that is offered a lot online, and that you can get at the hardware stores, is not made to prevent bypass. It is a miniature "old style box fan".

Phoenix: DON'T USE THAT DIMMER, IT WILL DAMAGE YOUR FAN. You need to get a fan speed controller. They allow you to adjust the fan speed to any speed without burning up the fan.

 

[grass hopper]

The 6 in. DIA. growbrite 424 fan was recommended at Htg for handling (3) 600 hps and 6 in carbon filter. Very glad they talked me into a speed controller as high speed wants to reduce my tent size. My make-up air fan is only 100 cm. My tent size is 96 by 54 inches. The (3) 600s cover nicely. As I said, I can comfortably keep my hand on the outside glass. My basement temp (intake temp) has been 63 degrees. In summer it will rise 5 to 10 degrees.

 

[fortphoenix]

Grasshopper: that sounds like a fan that is specialized to produce pressure by not allowing air to bypass the fan. The standard attic duct fan that is offered a lot online, and that you can get at the hardware stores, is not made to prevent bypass. It is a miniature "old style box fan".

Phoenix: DON'T USE THAT DIMMER, IT WILL DAMAGE YOUR FAN. You need to get a fan speed controller. They allow you to adjust the fan speed to any speed without burning up the fan.

i have a speed controller on the vortex i have now and it works really good but i figure that mercury dimmer would work since the controller does. i need something that keeps the fan idle at a low speed and if it gets to hot to go to max power. do you know of any other controllers i can use that will do this?

 

[fortphoenix]

The 6 in. DIA. growbrite 424 fan was recommended at Htg for handling (3) 600 hps and 6 in carbon filter. Very glad they talked me into a speed controller as high speed wants to reduce my tent size. My make-up air fan is only 100 cm. My tent size is 96 by 54 inches. The (3) 600s cover nicely. As I said, I can comfortably keep my hand on the outside glass. My basement temp (intake temp) has been 63 degrees. In summer it will rise 5 to 10 degrees.

so the fans on full blast the whole time?