Splicing ballast --> socket cable

[daaabud]

Hey everyone,

This isn't particularly urgent at the moment but it is kinda annoying. The HID light system I bought was more or less meant to have the ballast attached to the reflector. This is kinda foolish since I'm growing in a tent and the heat generated would make things quite hot in there, so I wanted to place the ballast outside of the tent. I'm doing that right now, however instead of having a height adjustable light I have a height adjustable plant . I just put boxes underneath to bring it closer (~16-18") to the light. The ballast is also on top of a bunch of boxes outside of the tent, barely within distance of the socket + reflector.

In order to not have that connection constricted, I was planning on cutting the cable and splicing a longer cable to the ends. I'm pretty good with electronics so I know what I'm doing, however I'm worried that this may invite interference since I'm severing what I'm assuming is a shielded connection. Do you think it will be ok to have two points of barely exposed wire?

Thanks!

 

[jao33333]

Hey everyone,

This isn't particularly urgent at the moment but it is kinda annoying. The HID light system I bought was more or less meant to have the ballast attached to the reflector. This is kinda foolish since I'm growing in a tent and the heat generated would make things quite hot in there, so I wanted to place the ballast outside of the tent. I'm doing that right now, however instead of having a height adjustable light I have a height adjustable plant . I just put boxes underneath to bring it closer (~16-18") to the light. The ballast is also on top of a bunch of boxes outside of the tent, barely within distance of the socket + reflector.

In order to not have that connection constricted, I was planning on cutting the cable and splicing a longer cable to the ends. I'm pretty good with electronics so I know what I'm doing, however I'm worried that this may invite interference since I'm severing what I'm assuming is a shielded connection. Do you think it will be ok to have two points of barely exposed wire?

Thanks!

Hey Da, As an Electrician, You will be fine. As you stated you are good with electronics, so i would assume you will splice the wire and connect it properly. My suggestion would be putting electrical heat rap tape over your spliced section of the wire, and as long as you are not adding a great deal of langth , than your Amps. wont decrease with the additional section of Wire. You can find Elc. Heat Tape Home Depot Radio Shack Ect. Hope this helps. PS No wire Nuts or electrical tape use proper connectors and the right size gauge wire. JJ

 

[DonJones]

daabud,

My recommendation is to purchase at least 1 set of male and female extension cord plugs and sockets. That way you can separate the balasdt completely while setting up, movig, or changing your light/grow area.

I personally prefer to use twist lock plug/socket sets but they are a little pricey. Another thought is to cut the cable to see if it is 2 or 3 wire cable and then buy one set of plug/socket and a ready made extension cord of the proper type. (14 guage should be plenty heavy unless you are going to get real carried away with distance.) A suggestion is to put the female socket on to your light end and the male plug on your ballast end to prevent someone from 0plugging your light directly into a 110 socket. Of course if you are going to do that you will have to be careful that no one turns the ballast on and shorts accross the blades on the exposed plug.

My best recommendation would be to use 2 sets of twist locks, put the female sockets on both the light and ballast ends and then put the males on each end of hte extension cord so that you don;t have to worry about someone plugging the light into the wrong source and also you won't have to worry about having exposed live blades on the ballast either.

If you have any questions, send me a PM with your email and I'll take pictures of how I set mine up. I have 2 of them done this way.

Also, if your ballast is electronic, then you aren't going to gain nearly as much heat reduction as if it is the older magnetic type like I have.

Don Jones

 

[Yellowjacket]

I gotta disagree with one thing there Don. I just finished replacing the cap and starter in a 600W Magnetic ballast that someone had wired a MALE end on the lamp cord. Seems he loaned it to someone else that proceeded to plug THAT connector into the wall socket. They then returned it without mentioning that it don't work no more!
After I replaced the parts I rewired the cord for a socket and used a plug that has one blade sideways on the lamp wire (socket of same type). This way the plug won't fit in a wall outlet. And now it works like a new one.

YJ

 

[Growdude]

I gotta disagree with one thing there Don. I just finished replacing the cap and starter in a 600W Magnetic ballast that someone had wired a MALE end on the lamp cord. Seems he loaned it to someone else that proceeded to plug THAT connector into the wall socket. They then returned it without mentioning that it don't work no more!
After I replaced the parts I rewired the cord for a socket and used a plug that has one blade sideways on the lamp wire (socket of same type). This way the plug won't fit in a wall outlet. And now it works like a new one.

YJ

This is why he said.

My best recommendation would be to use 2 sets of twist locks, put the female sockets on both the light and ballast ends and then put the males on each end of hte extension cord so that you don;t have to worry about someone plugging the light into the wrong source and also you won't have to worry about having exposed live blades on the ballast either.

 

[daaabud]

daabud,

My recommendation is to purchase at least 1 set of male and female extension cord plugs and sockets. That way you can separate the balasdt completely while setting up, movig, or changing your light/grow area.

I personally prefer to use twist lock plug/socket sets but they are a little pricey. Another thought is to cut the cable to see if it is 2 or 3 wire cable and then buy one set of plug/socket and a ready made extension cord of the proper type. (14 guage should be plenty heavy unless you are going to get real carried away with distance.) A suggestion is to put the female socket on to your light end and the male plug on your ballast end to prevent someone from 0plugging your light directly into a 110 socket. Of course if you are going to do that you will have to be careful that no one turns the ballast on and shorts accross the blades on the exposed plug.

My best recommendation would be to use 2 sets of twist locks, put the female sockets on both the light and ballast ends and then put the males on each end of hte extension cord so that you don;t have to worry about someone plugging the light into the wrong source and also you won't have to worry about having exposed live blades on the ballast either.

If you have any questions, send me a PM with your email and I'll take pictures of how I set mine up. I have 2 of them done this way.

Also, if your ballast is electronic, then you aren't going to gain nearly as much heat reduction as if it is the older magnetic type like I have.

Don Jones

Dang those lock sockets are expensive! I'd be paying like $35 for an extension cord. I suppose there is no other option... I knew I should have shelled out a little more money and bought my light from somewhere like HTG lol.... Oh well, not that big of a deal. I don't suppose soldering together the leads with the extension cord and then heat shrinking the exposed wires followed by gratuitous amounts of electric tape would be an okay solution would it? 'Cause that would be a helluva a lot cheaper, considering I have a soldering iron.

Thanks!

 

[DonJones]

daaabud,

That is why I is the female blade type on each end of the original ballast to fixture cord and then the male end on both ends of the new middle piece. That way the ends should cost less than $3.00 each for a total of $12.00 for ends (if you are really concerned about cost, just splice the female end that you cut off of the extension cord to the ballast end of the cord and then you only have to buy one male end to put on the end of the extension cord and one female end to put on the fixture end of the cut cord which cuts the cost in half but then on one end or the other of the cut cords, you will have splice to make and cover up.).

If looks aren't important, then just use normal blade type pieces, plug the cords together and wrap them with electrical tape or duct tape to keep them from coming apart (that is the reason the best way would be to use the expensive twist lock, they won't accidentally come unplugged because some one/thing pulled on them. Taping them wouldn't be a bad idea anyway because in nay grow operation there is always water involved and taping them will greatly lessen the chance of water getting into them and causing problems. Usually you won't be unplugging them very often any way.

If you are going to be splicing, I recommend Heat Shrink crimp style butt connectors covered with 3M's Liquid Electrician's Tape. The connectors, crimping pliers and the liquid electricians tape are all three widely available through auto parts stores like NAPA, Carquest, Schucks, Checker, O'riley and so on as well as at commercial electrical supply houses. In fact I believe you can get them at Lowe's and HomeDepot too.

Even if I was using the 220 style socket/plugs with the cross-ways blade, I would still put the female end on the ballast end of the original cord so that if it accidentally gets unplugged with the ballast turned on, you won't have a problem with live blades exposed to shock someone or start a fire.

The only reason to buy four matching ends is cosmetics. That way the junctions look a lot more professional than if you use the ends on the extension cord and only buy one female and one male end.

Also, it is nearly impossible to splice a 3 wire extension cord, or even a 32 wire cord for that matter, without having a big ugly mess covered in tape. (It can be done but it wastes a lot of cord and you have to know how to do it, and even then it doesn't look as nice as 2 matching cord ends plugged together.)

There are many other ways to cobble together an extension of any cord -- most of which I have used at some time or the other -- but they are all ugly, unsafe, not very durable, or all three of the above and I will not recommend them, especially in the forum where I have no idea who is reading it and where they may be using them.

Good Luck to all of you.

Don Jones

 

[daaabud]

Thanks for the info Don! Is splicing a 3 wire cord that bad? I understand that it'll lead to a very thick diameter section at the joining parts, but aside from that as long as it is electrically insulated it should be alright. Do you think that soldering the leads in addition to heatshrink and the liquid electricians tape should be sufficient for splicing? Or are the crimping connections stronger than a solder?

Thanks!

 

[DonJones]

daaabud,

Personally, if the crimps style butt connectors are properly installed, I think they do a better job than soldering the wires together. If you use the connectors with heat shrink tubing already on them, all you have to do is strip the ends, crimp the connector on and then heat the tubing with a hair dryer, small flame like from a cigarette lighter or better yet a heat gun.

If you buy them from Harbor Freight, the male ends are $1.99 US and the female ends are $2.99 US. If you watch for them to go on sale the price drops $1.00 each. At Lowe's or Home Depot, you can get a set of male and female ends for under $10.00 US and all you have to do is strip the ends of the wires, install the ends and tighten screws PLUS if you ever want to you can simply unplug the cords.l

Personally, I think it is a lot better to just buy the ends and install them, but splicing 3 wire cord isn't any harder than splicing a single wire -- you just have to do it 3 times and things get a little crowded unless you strip the outer jacket way back. I still recommend using the plug/socket ends.

If you have only 2 wire cord you can probably get both ends for well under $5.00 US.

I'm currently converting an old magnetic ballast with attached socket into a remote ballast hood type assembly with a plug/socket set in the cord. I'll try to take pictures and post them. Of course because I'm inserting the entire cord, I only need to put one plug/socket set in it so that I can disconnect it if i need to.

One advantage of doing it this way is I can use the same hood assembly on several different ballast assemblies by just plugging it into a different ballast and making sure I have the correct bulb installed to match the ballast.

 

[Yellowjacket]

A suggestion is to put the female socket on to your light end and the male plug on your ballast end to prevent someone from plugging your light directly into a 110 socket. Don Jones

Growdude, this is the reason I worded my post how I did. I agree about the twistlocks but they are too expensive for a lot of us to use. And a male end sticking out of a ballast just BEGS somebody to plug it in. A male end on the lamp cord wouldn't cause a problem because it's not enough voltage to fire the lamp. So no harm, no foul.
Using the sideways bladed plugs means they CAN'T plug it in where it don't belong!

YJ

 

[daaabud]

daaabud,

Personally, if the crimps style butt connectors are properly installed, I think they do a better job than soldering the wires together. If you use the connectors with heat shrink tubing already on them, all you have to do is strip the ends, crimp the connector on and then heat the tubing with a hair dryer, small flame like from a cigarette lighter or better yet a heat gun.

If you buy them from Harbor Freight, the male ends are $1.99 US and the female ends are $2.99 US. If you watch for them to go on sale the price drops $1.00 each. At Lowe's or Home Depot, you can get a set of male and female ends for under $10.00 US and all you have to do is strip the ends of the wires, install the ends and tighten screws PLUS if you ever want to you can simply unplug the cords.l

Personally, I think it is a lot better to just buy the ends and install them, but splicing 3 wire cord isn't any harder than splicing a single wire -- you just have to do it 3 times and things get a little crowded unless you strip the outer jacket way back. I still recommend using the plug/socket ends.

If you have only 2 wire cord you can probably get both ends for well under $5.00 US.

I'm currently converting an old magnetic ballast with attached socket into a remote ballast hood type assembly with a plug/socket set in the cord. I'll try to take pictures and post them. Of course because I'm inserting the entire cord, I only need to put one plug/socket set in it so that I can disconnect it if i need to.

One advantage of doing it this way is I can use the same hood assembly on several different ballast assemblies by just plugging it into a different ballast and making sure I have the correct bulb installed to match the ballast.

The cord going from the light socket plugging into the ballast reads "10A 250V~". I'm assuming that means any connectors I use should be rated for at least that voltage/amperage. The connectors on Harbor's website are rated only to 125V 15A. I'll check out the local hardware stores around here to see if there is anything rated for 250V+.

 

[DonJones]

daaabud,

that's very perceptive of you. If that is what it says, then I would probably use those ratings too. I have been converting commercial one piece assemblies into remote ballast and socket assemblies and there were no labels like that on the internal wiring. I have been using the 125 v 15 a stuff without any problem, but to be absolutely safe, go with the specs on the factory cable. My source of lights is an electrical wholesale dealing in both new and used equipment and he said the 125 V stuff would be fine. I know the amperage doesn't need to be any where that high, but it is always better to over build.

I think you will find that the 250 V stuff will use the cross blades like was discussed earlier but I still recommend using the female end on the ballast to avoid any chance of having exposed energized blades if the cord gets unplugged while the ballast is turned on.

If you can get access to one, try a commercial outlet for the 250 V stuff. It might be less expensive that way. I just checked Lowe's and the 125 V stuff was approximately $7.00 US for the male and over $12.00 US for the female and I'm pretty sure I can do better at a commercial wholesale outlet that will also sell to the public.

 

[Yellowjacket]

Well let's figure this out.
V x A = W so 125 x 15 =1875 W capable, 250 x 10 = 2500W capable.
Even with a magnetic ballast worst case scenario would be 10% over the lamp's wattage to be lost as heat. 1000 W + 10% =1100W well within the 1875W at 125V. If you are gonna use 240 input then by all means use 250V connectors. But if it's gonna remain 115 (110/115/120/125) don't waste the money. (cause 250V connectors are high $) BUT be sure they are rated at 15A as some are only 10A.

YJ

 

[DonJones]

daaabud,

My electrician friend told me that all 3 wire extension cords will handle at least 250 v but depending on the wire size might not handle the amperage or wattage, depending on the application. Likewise the 110 v stuff and the 250 v stuff are made different not because of the voltage capacity but to keep people from pugging devices into the wrong voltage -- 120 v into 250 v and vice versa.

I was just at Lowe's and the prices I mentioned earlier were for their high end top dollar stuff. If you use the economy stuff you can get the price down to very close to $5.00 for a set of 1 male and 1 female for 3 wire cords and less for 2 wire sets.BUT IF YOU USE 2 WIRE SETS MAKE SURE THEY ARE POLARIZED SO THAT THEY CAN'T BE PLUGGED IN BACKWARDS. Even though it is A/C current going to the lamps, there is a reason why they use one color wire to connect to the center of the socket and a different color to connect to the outer ring of the socket.

The 250 v stuff is quite a bit more money that the 110 v stuff. There is also a 110 v 20 a plug/socket set that uses one blade turned cross-ways which are usually a little cheaper than the 250 stuff but still more than the normal 15 a 110 v stuff.

Regardless of what connectors you use, put the female on the ballast end so that you don't have exposed energized blades if it gets plugged in with the lamp unplugged!

If your cord is only 2 wire cable, then you don't need to use 3 wire connectors, other than it is impossible to plug them in backwards.

Yellow Jacket,

You have some very good and correct math and make good points if you are talking about the circuit from your breaker box to the ballast. However it doesn't apply to the circuit from the ballast to the lamp because that voltage stays the same. The ballast actually changes the voltage between the wall circuit from either 120 v or 220 v (my commercial magnetic ballasts are dual voltage for 120 v or 277 v, but they use the standard MH bulbs) to a different voltage (I don't know what the exact voltage is and am still trying to figure it out -- I'll let you know if I get it.) that is the same for a given type and wattage light IE a 1000 watt HPS uses the same lamp voltage regardless of whether the ballast is 220 v or 110 v input.

Don't feel bad, I had over a year of electronics engineering college and several years experience working on various kinds of lighting and electronic equipment and I still miss things that even a child should know. Nobody can know everything about everything.

 

[DonJones]

daaabud,

I will be posting a thread in the DITY section soon on how I convert commercial ballast/socket assemblies into remote ballast to reflector hood assemblies. IN tha thread I'll show pictures of the female sockets on the ballast and the male plugs on the socket cords that I insert. The methodology of splicing the ballast cords will be the same only you will be splicing it twice in your case.

 

[daaabud]

daaabud,

I will be posting a thread in the DITY section soon on how I convert commercial ballast/socket assemblies into remote ballast to reflector hood assemblies. IN tha thread I'll show pictures of the female sockets on the ballast and the male plugs on the socket cords that I insert. The methodology of splicing the ballast cords will be the same only you will be splicing it twice in your case.

I ended up going on your recommendation, Don, and making a male-male cord with female plugs on the ballast/socket ends. The cord I used was a couple times thicker than the ballast->socket cord. The ballast->socket cord has three wires, one of which is a ground that is attached to the reflector, and the other two are, I'm assuming, your (+) and (-). The cable bought is also pretty stiff due to its 12 gauge wire thickness. Kinda nice, actually, since I can for it to any shape I please and no hanging wires.

All in all in cost me $50 for everything which kinda blows. I got it at HD but I'm thinking of ordering online (maybe from Lowes) then returning the used ones.

I'll post some pics of it when I get ahold of a camera...

Thanks!

 

[Yellowjacket]

DJ I have worked in electronics for over 30 years. Evidently something isn't getting thru.

Yes, the insulation on all the extension cords is REQUIRED (UL) to be 600V capable. However, being as I know that and know that the output voltage from my step up transformer (aka ballast) and the voltage doubler (aka starter) may exceed 600V BUT will not achieve the 1200 V required to breach both wires insulation I'm not worried about the voltage but rather the Wattage. A 1KW lamp w a ballast losing 10% of wattage as heat (a very poor ballast) would need 1000W capable connections. Doesn't matter if they are 125 or 250 Volt rated as long as their WATTAGE rating complies. Say the output voltage is 500 V. So 1000w / 500V = 2A well within the rating for current and although the voltage rating is exceeded it's still safe because the wattage rating hasn't been exceeded, nor the insulation breakdown voltage. BTW DJ it's 1100 W input for output to the lamp of 1000W. It's all about the watts!

A prime example of why a 1 KW light should NEVER be run at 115V.

If we use the previous example of 1100W and do the math we get
at 115 V 1100/115 = ~9.57 Amps
at 240 V 1100/240 = ~4.58 Amps
I have a couple of other windings available on mine but those are commercial line voltages and of no use to the NORMAL grower.

However, all that is incidental to my ORIGINAL point about NOT using a 115V MALE connector as the output of the ballast (I see that's now advised as a female w a male /male interconnect) . The 600W SunLight I recently fixed had been modified w a male on the output and the idiot he loaned it to plugged THAT plug into the wall. All that did was blow up the cap and starter, so for less than $100 it was fixed. But that was $100 that could have been used elsewhere! And the whole thing could have been avoided by NOT using a male plug on the output!

I hope that clears it all up.

YJ

 

[DonJones]

Everyone,

The thread about converting commercial vertical fixtures to remote ballast systems is posted.

daaabud,

I was at Lowe's yesterday picking up some pieces for the conversion project and looked at the plug/socket sets and the prices I was quoted over the phone were for their top of the line sets. Their economy sets were more like about $7.50 per pair. If you are buying everything, you might be better off to buy a 14 gauge 3 wire extension cord of the length you want to insert, one male plug, and 2 female sockets; cut off the female end of the extension cord ( I usually leave about 6" to 1' of cord attached so that I can use it to get a female connection later.); install the male plug onto the end off the extension cord to get the male -- male cord; and install the 2 female sockets onto the 2 cut ends of the original ballast to light cord. Just check the costs. I know I can usually buy a pre-made extension cord cheaper than I can buy raw cord and the plug/socket sets and that is not even considering the hassle of assembling the pieces. When you get into 220 volt or odd plug/socket configurations, this isn't necessarily true. I make all of my own 220 volt extension cords for my welders but standard 220 volt cords like a dryer or stove power cord/pigtail I can buy cheaper, unless I need a special length.

Yellowjacket,

We agree on NOT using any voltage of male plug on the ballast end to prevent the output getting plugged into a input source of what ever voltage and even more importantly to prevent having live energized blades exposed for both short danger, fire danger and even worse shock danger if the unit was plugged in without the light cord connected.

Your math is absolutely correct, but irrelevant to this discussion. The ballast/transformer in a multi-voltage unit has at least 2 and maybe very many sets of INPUT winding so that it can take several voltage/amperage combinations to power the INPUT side of the ballast BUT ONLY ONE OUTPUT WINDING SO THAT REGARDLESS OF WHAT INPUT COMBINATION YOU USE YOU ALWAYS GET THE SAME OUTPUT COMBINATION OF VOLTAGE AND AMPERAGE. The bulb is designed to operate on only one narrow range of combination of voltage/amperage. A given wattage MH or even HPS bulb requires a given voltage/amperage combination regardless of whether it is used in a 220 v or 125 v or 208 v or 277 v single voltage fixture. The same stays true when several input voltage windings are combined in a multi-voltage ballast/transformer. My commercial units combine all of those voltages in the same ballast BUT they use the same bulb regardless of which set of input windings are energized.

Does that clear up the off topic disagreement that you explained in detail with such accurate math? I respect your 30 years experience in electronics, (I know I can learn much from you, especially how to use electronics to accomplish things that most people use mechanical/magnetic devices to do, like using electronic switching instead of relays to control high amperage/voltage circuits with low wattage timers, as in ...Bad Timers...) but that does not necessarily transfer into commercial/residential electrical work. That is why electrician have to have different licenses to work in commercial/residential fields than to work in electronics.

 

[Yellowjacket]

I know quite well how transformers work and didn't question using the same bulb. (don't know where that came from) My point was that when you are looking at using household connectors that are rated in a certain voltage and amperage it doesn't need to worry you as long as you don't exceed the WATTAGE (V x A) and the insulation breakdown resistance (which is a U/L standard 600V).
An example would be buying cheap connectors. Great as long as they exceed the wattage that is gonna be run through them daily. A 115v 10A connector is good for 1150 W MAX, OK for a 400 or 600. But if I was looking for a connector for running a 1K I'd find one rated at 15A. Then I KNOW that the connections will run cool.

Oh BTW did I tell ya my Secondary MOS in the Army was Electrician? The only use I ever had for the training was in fixing **** around the house. But laying out conduit and all that looked like no fun at all! Besides I knew I would NEVER work it in the Army or out. Just a requirement met (Secondary MOS).

Not trying ta knock what ya was saying at all just pointing out the science necessary to do this hobby safely.

I'm gone.

YJ

 

[DonJones]

Yellowjacket,

SAFETY, SAFETY, ALWAYS SAFETY! Right -- heard it constantly but if they asked why it wasn't done on time they sure didn't want to hear about safety did they? I was in the US Air Farce -- oops "Force'.

I did use my WARSKILL (secondary MOS) though.


Getting back on subject, I thought you were saying that the connectors in the ballast to lamp cord needed to be increased between a 125 VOLT INPUT SETTING and a 220 VOLT INPUT SETTING for the same ballast/lamp.

I was also confused by the reference to the different voltages because as we both know the output voltage stays the same regardless of the input voltage.

As usual, we were both right but referring to different sides of the coin/ballast.

Thank you. Hopefully, people didn't get so confused between us that they missed the points that we were both making --All UL approved conductors -- both wiring and connectors -- must be safe up to 600 volts and the amperage is the determining factor in choosing which wire size and which connector to use! IE 125 v X 30 amps = 3750 watts whereas 240 v x 30 amps = 6600 watts BUT 30 amps requires #10 wire and 30 amp connectors regardless of the how many watts you are using so long as you are running 30 amps even though the 125 v circuit is only running half as many watts to get the same amps.

Sorry about the mix up. If I'm still confusing every one, I'm just going to let you straighten it out and thank you in advance for sharing your knowledge.

ABOVE ALL -- STAY SAFE TO ENJOY LIFE LONGER AND SMOKE MORE TIMES!

Don Jones