How early can plants show sex?

[Dan K. Liberty]

I can tell you indeed have the passion and interest in this new hobby of yours, tasty :icon_smile: you want to learn everything . . . thats a good sign

backcrossing is breeding a plant to its own kind, not another strain . . . actually, to backcross you first breed two plants of the same strain, then grow out the offspring and use a male of the offspring to breed a clone of the original mom . . . then you can take those offspring and use a male from them to again breed a clone of the original mom . . . and so on . . . you keep crossing back to the original mom, get it ? the result is that the differences between individual phenos becomes less and less, which for some purposes is very desirable - more uniform growth and harvesting.

you can also reverse that and find a very exceptional male, clone it, and keep backcrossing the future generations of females that it produces to the original male.

outcrossing is taking two different strains and creating a hybrid, a mixture of both . . . then picking out the best phenos from the resulting combination . . . the best hybrids come from the most polar opposites - extreme indicas bred to extreme sativas . . .

we all looked at the branching growth on that male blueberry of yours and saw the same thing . . . an interesting candidate for possible breeding (males, especially indica males, often produce very weak branching) . . . but I think you're exactly right, you would do well to concentrate on your girls this trip and just get used to bringing plants all the way to harvest before you delve into pollen chucking . . . . but it's something fun to anticipate in the future !!

jm2c :48:

 

[tastyness]

Dan,
Thanks for the great explanation. I'm going to pass for now but want to make sure I get what you are telling me.
IF I had two blueberry plants at this time AND one was a girl THEN I would be able to back-cross. When we buy seeds from a retailer are they all from the same plant?
Once I pollinate a clone from the female her seeds are still boy/girl and I grab a boy from that and rinse and repeat?

If you guys thought that dude has some nice genetics wait till you see the BCD I've got. This is one of the last holdouts for pre-flowers so no idea if it is a boy or a girl yet.
It looks like a hanging plant and has the closes internodes I've ever seen for a 7 week old plant. Pics in GJ soon.
~t~

 

[Dan K. Liberty]

Close but not quite lol . . .

IF you had two blueberry plants at this time, AND one was a female (call her MOM) and one was a male (call him DAD), then you could fertizilize MOM with DAD and produce some seeds, or offspring (call them KIDS).

Once you have those seeds, THEN you could backcross . . . growing out the KIDS, choosing one or more female KIDS to fertilize with pollen from a clone of DAD, and/or choosing one or more male KIDS' pollen to fertilize a clone of MOM . . . and making another batch of seeds . . . then you could backcross again by growing those seeds out and breeding the GRANDKIDS back to clones of the original MOM/DAD . . . . it takes years and several generations of plants to do this

Its basically plant incest . . . no banjo pickin here, and not at all like the animal world . . . it's extremely helpful in developing true-breeding uniformity in a given strain

Hmmmm . . . when you buy seeds, I guess it's possible that they are from the same plant, but I'm not sure any of us can say . . . . oh wait, there is someone who could answer that !!

Maybe if we see Colin & Sharon around, we can pose that question . . . I think it's really an excellent question and would really like to know the answer too . . . Colin and Sharon are members here, they are the breeders who established the Leprechaun Seed Company - which seems to have some really dank genetics in their lineup (see the Gravedigger plant Ruffy just harvested in his GJ - that strain is from LSC)

For now though, I will just be happy to see you harvest some nice mature female buds . . . in growing it's always GIRLS COME FIRST !!

 

[tastyness]

Dan-
That answer just got you a vote for MVP!

 

[dcshoeco1041]

mine have been going for close to 10 weeks invegandi cant tell sex still. i guess ill just have to see when i put em into flower

 

[Dan K. Liberty]

wow that's a long veg with no preflowers dc . . . did you top or fim them, and if so . . . how many nodes did you let em grow up to on the main stem before you did so ?

 

[tastyness]

Here are updated sex pics. The two "boys" have been removed from the tent and are on their way to my juicer!

The other is the blueberry that I thought was a boy (first one to show any hint) but since then no more indications either way.

Dan asked me to post some more pics.
The WCD all three is still showing nothing. All other plants have shown clearly as girls (YEAH!)
Here is the undetermined Blue...

 

[tastyness]

And here are the boys...

 

[tastyness]

Still the same question on this plant- is it a girl? is it a boy? is it hermie?

This one seems to have the boy lobster claw flowers, but each time I think it is that it turns into a leaf....

This plants doesn't look or act like any of the others in my grow.

Enjoy the funky pictures.
I'm thinking it is time to get this out of the tent- just in case.
Hoping it becomes clear enough for me to feel good about chopping its head off.

 

[Dan K. Liberty]

the very first picture has a structure that can be identified . . . looks like a lobster claw with the tips crossing over . . . :cry:

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Dan, that just appears to be new growth to me--what are you thinking it is saying?

 

[ozzydiodude]

Jury still out to lunch here

 

[Dan K. Liberty]

I'm saying that looks exactly like a male preflower . . . have seen the lobster claw many a time, and dint a one turn out to be a female . . . she does have some weird growth on the plant, where little secondary branches with leaves are coming out of the same node as a main branch, but that aint one of em, I'm afraid . . . inside those two little sheaths is a boy ball waitin to pop . . . see the thinning at the bottom where the tiny stalk is starting to lift it up?

 

[Hick]

picture #3???? if that ain't a male, I'll eat ozzies hat!

 

[tastyness]

Thanks Dudes- I noticed that I see the most little balls right by the FIM site. On the girls, that part clearly shows pistils. I thought my pictures were clear but not so much.

I'll try for better pics again today. Also think one of my WCD has finally turned up male!

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Pic 3 certainly does look like a male. However, I have never noticed the lobster claw things as being male preflowers when I was sexing plants. I'll keep a better eye out. I am sexing some Beyond the Brain now. The first one to show sex is a big girl that I though may turn out to be a boy as it is the biggest.

 

[tastyness]

Ozzie- I'm hoping the jury is still out.
So I was feeling kinda creative with my camera yesterday.
Maybe in B&W it is easier to see the bits and bobs.

I keep thinking this plant is a boy- and I should toss it. BUT then I notice that most of what looks like man-parts keeps turning into leaf.

I'm not seeing any hairs yet but love this plant and would hate to trash it and find out it was a girl.
The only place it seems quite "manly" is where I attempted to FIM it.
Tons of bud sites are forming- it is 3 days into flower. I've got one branch that I flipped to 12/12 early and am hoping that will give me a clue before it becomes dangerous.

I don't want to be blinded by my desire for this plant to produce some smoke to the point where I mess up the rest of the tent.
With the pollen thing-if I'm checking every day (several times). Can the little tiny nob in the pic do pollen? Or does it need to grow some more before it can release?

Comments and advice welcome.

 

[tastyness]

I'm not willing to take any more chances. Calling this one a boy.
So out of 8 blueberry seeds from two different purchases I ended up with 0 plants to take to flower.
Luckily I can try again-in my next order I think I'll try a different breeder.
It was fun experimenting a bit with this one (using black bag on branch to help sex early 12/12) but still hoping it would be a girl.
I used these pictures to make my decision. Click to see larger version and let me know what you think


As THG said, it does get easier as you go along. Overall I've had a really good % of girls from this run.

 

[Dan K. Liberty]

Agreed on all counts, tasty :icon_smile: a couple of the fat boys there look fully formed, and could open within a couple days . . . . I'm sure DJ sends his regrets . . .

As I've stated on other threads, I haven't grown out a whole bunch of different strains . . . but I have been fortunate, because the genetics I've worked with the most - The Holy Cow and her two parents - were like clockwork when it came to sexing . . . 4 weeks veg, node 6 or 7 on the main stem . . . bang, there they are, no doubt about it . . .

In fact, I got to know mine so well that I could often correctly guess them before preflowers even formed !! . . . males grow taller, a bit wimpier with slightly longer internodes and less robust side branching during veg . . . females grow a bit squatter, with shorter internodes and vigorous side branching, getting strong and ready for heavy nuggz down the road

I was trying to help ston-loc sex his Satori plants back in the spring, and I got fooled by at least two, I think . . . see, it's coded into the genetics as to how and when a strain or individual is gonna show, and Satori is on the tough end of the scale . . . . everybody growing it says the same thing . . . so nothing is written in ston . . . hehe . . . depending on what you're growing, your results may differ . . .

I still have a suspicion that fimming or topping the plant and quitting the single main stem growth pattern causes delay, but because of time or height restrictions, some growers simply can't wait that long . . . I wait to sex the plants first, then transplant the girls to final pot size and FIM, then veg a week or two more to grow out the FIMs, then flip . . . it's just what works for me

So like THG said, it's a learning process that only stops when you turn out the lights . . . all we can do is make careful observations and learn how our plants tick, and then apply that information to future runs . . . maybe no blueberry popsicles for you on this run, but you did get plenty of girls to work with . . . and I'm assuming this will be the last pic of a male plant that you will post for awhile . . .

jm2c :48:

 

[tastyness]

Dan K.
Well said. :yeahthat: Having the several varieties has taught me lots for this time around and has made it very interesting. They weren't DJ shorts BTW. The downside is probably that not every strain is at optimum, since they are getting treated mostly the same way for their age. Clones get one treatment, veggies get one and flowering of course another.

This one actually did show way back when- I just didn't want to believe it. I think with more experience I'll be more confident. I really thought that tall BCD that is so different than the other three was gonna be the boy. But no, she is clearly a girl. For me it is like, the girls make it really obvious and when in doubt it should probably go out.
Still 3 plants to go though so there might be a few more pics- but certainly none of this plant. I've got a guess in for 2 boys and one girl. They have two pretty different pheno types going on as well
Mine went in the following order : sex (most around 33-40 days), FIM-(because I thought I was in final pot size), destroy confirmed males , transplant and top up, clone, heal 1-2 weeks, flip.
One of the best things I've learned this time around is the actual rhythm with which my plants are growing. It's one thing to read about the stages but another to live through them. Thank goodness I had all this help here at MP or I never would have made it this far with such success. Coming up- flowering, how cool is that.
Appreciate your comments and help as always. Your grow is looking awesome.

PS: If you knew how many pictures I've taken of this little project you would be :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: