Is your power load SAFE?

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dr pyro said:
the only way or the correct way is to rewire plugs to the box if you really want the ground. you can still have lights it doesnt matter if you have your tv or hid plugged in. you just gotta be careful with water around.you can simply get those no ground adapters.if it wasnt safe the owner would not be able to be insured. you should see some old wiring in some of the houses i worked in. pretty scary stuff way back when. you'll bee safe just use caution with water. if you decide to rent this place give use the info about the box whats there and we can guide you threw. there are couple of people on here either electricians or just know there stuff. keep us posted

Awesome info! Ok, so i'll take some pictures of the box/outlets and anything relevent, and post them the next day or so. Should I start that as a new thread or continue it here?
 
dr pyro said:
yes the 100 amp is your main. thats whats throwing me off when you say 30 amp you cant have a 30 main to small.either the owner has no clue or your wiring is messed up. is elect included with this place. the only reason i say this is he could say elect is included and you have 1 breaker to your appt. if thats the case pass it up 30 is not gonna be enough to do what you want.

Yeah the owner has no extra knowledge about power, he knows a little less than me it seems. I'd be paying for the electricity, so i'm assuming i'd have my own meter and own breaker panel. he said when he opened the box it read "30 amp max, 120/240V" To me that meant there is only 1 breaker in the panel,and its rated at 30 amps. I guess if that's the case, there would only be 1 circuit for the whole house. If the main panel is 100 amps, i guess then i could have a new leg of power run to the grow room, but that would most likely be way out of my price range. I'm looking at $300-$500 total startup money available for me including lights/pots/fans, etc.. And my assumption is electrical work by an electrician would cost me many $100's to $1000's and I just cant swing that unfortunately. I'll take these pics tomarrow and post them up, i hope its not as bad as he's saying.
 
Dr. Pyro, this is NOT to argue with you but to simplify it for electrically challenge readers who are already confused enough.

Everyone -- the safe current carrying capacity of a circuit is dependent on only 3 things. First clean tight connections with good breakers and plugins. The second is wire size. The third is the plugin rating. The size of a breaker is irrelevant to how much current your circuit can safely carry. A given wire size of a given length can only safely carry a given amount of current regardless of the breaker rating!

ALL CURRENT RATINGS THAT ARE DISCUSSED HERE WILL BE FOR COPPER WIRE UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED! If you have aluminum wiring forget about it and get the heck out of there. It is very unsafe eventually. The odds are very great against finding but there may still be a little of it around. Never work on aluminum wiring because it is very dangerous even when used by a licensed electrician.


For anything less that 75' long circuits the following are the current ratings for the most common wire sizes encountered in residential wiring:

14 gauge COPPER = 15 amps
12 gauge COPPER = 20 amps
10 gauge Copper = 30 amps.

Most three prong plug with parallel blades are rated at 15 amps. Most 20 amp plugs have at least one blade cross ways and 30 amp have both blades cross ways. They are made this way to prevent your plugging a 30 amp appliance into a 15 amp circuit.

It makes no difference what size the circuit breaker is, the highest safe amperage for that circuit is determined by the lower of the rating for the wire or the plug.

If I have a 14 gauge wire and put a 30 amp plug on the end and a 20 amp breaker in the box I still have a 15 amp circuit because the wire will over heat at either 20 or 30 amps.

Likewise if I have 10 gauge wire and a30 amp breaker but a 15 amp plug, for that plug at least I have a 15 amp circuit. However, on a circuit you can have multiple plugs of what ever rating but the total safe load is still determined by wire size.

What a breaker or fuse does is to limit the amount of current you can draw through that circuit. They are designed to fail (blow for a fuse, trip/break for a breaker) BEFORE the wiring gets hot enough to start a fire, but just changing the fuse/breaker to a larger one does NOT increase the current the wire will handle.

Changing a 2 wire circuit to a 3 prong plug, regardless of whether it is a normal plug or a GFCI plug does NOT make it the standard safer grounded circuit! The purpose of the third wire is to create a path between the hot wire and the earth that is of less resistance than through your body so that the circuit is more likely to flow through the ground circuit than through you if a short occurs.

A GFCI is a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt device which senses the difference between the current flowing through the hot wire and the neutral wire and shuts down if it senses that part of the current is going to ground instead of staying in the power circuit. In order to sense this is MUST have a good ground wire for a reference. The advantage of a GFCI is that if will shut down the circuit in micro seconds, usually long before you even feel a tingle. GFCIs are NOT intended to be used as circuit breakers -- they are designed to prevent shock/electrocution NOT to prevent fires.

The best advice I can give anyone who isn't sure about a circuit's capacity is to have someone who KNOWS how to tell wire size check the circuit at the fuse box/circuit breaker panel and then cross check to be sure that the breaker rating matches the rating of the wiring. It should cost less than $100US, but that is a whole lot cheaper that a fire or an electrocution!

If you don't KNOW exactly what the safe rating of the wiring in the wall is then you are playing Russian Roulette any time you are plugging in anything, even a trouble light.

Hopefully this gives the uninformed a safe place to start.

Good smoking everyone!
 
Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter.
It will only protect whats downline from it.
 
Look and see what type of wire is there. If it is the wire that has the metal covering on it that is your path to ground. This only means that the box that the recepticle resides in is grounded. If this is the case you can use a 3 into two adapter and connect the wire comming out of the adapter to the center screw that holds the cover plate in place. This IMO is only a temporary fix and not as good as a true grounded wire.
 
DonJones said:
Dr. Pyro, this is NOT to argue with you but to simplify it for electrically challenge readers who are already confused enough.

Everyone -- the safe current carrying capacity of a circuit is dependent on only 3 things. First clean tight connections with good breakers and plugins. The second is wire size. The third is the plugin rating. The size of a breaker is irrelevant to how much current your circuit can safely carry. A given wire size of a given length can only safely carry a given amount of current regardless of the breaker rating!

ALL CURRENT RATINGS THAT ARE DISCUSSED HERE WILL BE FOR COPPER WIRE UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED! If you have aluminum wiring forget about it and get the heck out of there. It is very unsafe eventually. The odds are very great against finding but there may still be a little of it around. Never work on aluminum wiring because it is very dangerous even when used by a licensed electrician.


For anything less that 75' long circuits the following are the current ratings for the most common wire sizes encountered in residential wiring:

14 gauge COPPER = 15 amps
12 gauge COPPER = 20 amps
10 gauge Copper = 30 amps.

Most three prong plug with parallel blades are rated at 15 amps. Most 20 amp plugs have at least one blade cross ways and 30 amp have both blades cross ways. They are made this way to prevent your plugging a 30 amp appliance into a 15 amp circuit.

It makes no difference what size the circuit breaker is, the highest safe amperage for that circuit is determined by the lower of the rating for the wire or the plug.

If I have a 14 gauge wire and put a 30 amp plug on the end and a 20 amp breaker in the box I still have a 15 amp circuit because the wire will over heat at either 20 or 30 amps.

Likewise if I have 10 gauge wire and a30 amp breaker but a 15 amp plug, for that plug at least I have a 15 amp circuit. However, on a circuit you can have multiple plugs of what ever rating but the total safe load is still determined by wire size.

What a breaker or fuse does is to limit the amount of current you can draw through that circuit. They are designed to fail (blow for a fuse, trip/break for a breaker) BEFORE the wiring gets hot enough to start a fire, but just changing the fuse/breaker to a larger one does NOT increase the current the wire will handle.

Changing a 2 wire circuit to a 3 prong plug, regardless of whether it is a normal plug or a GFCI plug does NOT make it the standard safer grounded circuit! The purpose of the third wire is to create a path between the hot wire and the earth that is of less resistance than through your body so that the circuit is more likely to flow through the ground circuit than through you if a short occurs.

A GFCI is a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt device which senses the difference between the current flowing through the hot wire and the neutral wire and shuts down if it senses that part of the current is going to ground instead of staying in the power circuit. In order to sense this is MUST have a good ground wire for a reference. The advantage of a GFCI is that if will shut down the circuit in micro seconds, usually long before you even feel a tingle. GFCIs are NOT intended to be used as circuit breakers -- they are designed to prevent shock/electrocution NOT to prevent fires.

The best advice I can give anyone who isn't sure about a circuit's capacity is to have someone who KNOWS how to tell wire size check the circuit at the fuse box/circuit breaker panel and then cross check to be sure that the breaker rating matches the rating of the wiring. It should cost less than $100US, but that is a whole lot cheaper that a fire or an electrocution!

If you don't KNOW exactly what the safe rating of the wiring in the wall is then you are playing Russian Roulette any time you are plugging in anything, even a trouble light.

Hopefully this gives the uninformed a safe place to start.

Good smoking everyone!

Excellent info Don Jones, very appreciated. So GFCI is useless without ground, that is good to know. So today when i take pix of the house i'm looking at i'm going to focus on the breaker panel, close-up's of the wiring in the panel AND the outlets inside the house. I'll unscrew them and take pix of the insides. This way someone will "hopefully" be able to tell me what gauge it is, and if this house looks feasible for a grow op.
 
Well, it looks like its a pretty bad situation. there are 2 breakers outside, each with a Meter attached. One looks like it runs inside the house, the other looks like it runs to a outdoor water heater attached to the house. One says (20 amp) the other says (15 amp). The house is old, i'm gonna say it was built in the 1920s/1930s. The paper on the inside of the breaker box said "30 amp max" I know this one is a long shot, but its such a PERFECT grow location, i have to hold on to any hope. Thanks for any advice!

Breaker02.jpg

outlet-3.jpg

Breaker01.jpg

outlet-1.jpg

outlet-2.jpg
 
I'm guessing but I would say the wiring is 14 gauge and you have 2 15 amp circuits for the entire house, UNLESS there is another box that you haven't seen. How do they heat it and how do you cook?

My water heater alone draws more than they are using for the entire house. Personally I wouldn't rent it even if I wasn't thinking about a grow operation.


Sorry, guy but unless there is another box somewhere, I'd run from it just as fast as you can. The recommended wiring for a refrigerator is a 15 amp circuit with nothing else on it besides the refrigerator. There goes half of you available power right there. Do you really want to have to juggle what appliances and lights you have on at the same time to keep from tripping the breaker?

Incidentally I would guess the age of the wiring more like the 50 because the use of circuit breakers didn't become common until after WWII. Our first house was built in the early 50s and it still had fuses, but even then it had a 100 amp total service. I rewired it with a 200 amp service which is pretty much the norm now.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I sure would rather bum you out than let you get killed in a fire.

Good smoking!
 
ya not a good idea look else where. i cant beleive thats all the breakers like don said heat,stove unless its gas.i say bad spot
 
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate the help, you've saved me alot of wasted time for sure! If the owner agrees to upgrade the power i'd take it, but otherwise i'll have to leave that nice little house to some other renter with little knowledge of power. That's scary to think I could hardly run a computer and a refrigerator in that whole place, I would have found out really quick how bad the power was and stuck in a lease, thanks again!! :)
 
that is a fire waiting to happen there. lol, a double 15 runs entire house.:eek: ...

forget the gfci. lol...

did you ask why there was two meters going to (one house)???
 

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