Method of curing (Moved from the Grow Journal area)

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Zarnon

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Cool man... Harvest party! :cool:

stony said:
I'll have some of that sum. I average 20 ounces per/crop in a 3.5 x 5.5 area with a 5 foot plant height. That's cured weight.
Funny but this is the first time I've ever weighed my grow. I was doing it more b/c I was irritated with those dudes saying they get "2 Pounds Per Plant!" and then show some funky tray half full o' nugz. The comparison game people do tho... whoo... I'm not into that... when you're a few Z's within one another does it really matter? Most of what I'm into now are things related to taste and finish; It's gotta be Good and Plenty :D

I wish I had the patience to wait thru the cure but I'm already snarfing this stuff up! :D I figure the wt will be fairly stable as my goal is to keep the herb the same level of moisture as I jarred it (I put it in fairly dry). I may do a little exp to see what happens to weight over my cure. I used to put it in wetter but that led to too many problems.

Anyways, looks great mon! Wish we could share a few bowls! :p
 
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Stoney Bud

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Zarnon said:
I figure the wt will be fairly stable as my goal is to keep the herb the same level of moisture as I jarred it (I put it in fairly dry). I may do a little exp to see what happens to weight over my cure.
The weight of the fresh weed is 80% water. The initial drying takes about 50% of the water weight out. The cure slows this process to make the weed taste better. After a proper cure, you're weed will lose 80% of it's fresh harvested weight. There is no way around this. Why would you try to save the water weight? It's water, it doesn't do anything for you except make the weed burn lousy and harsh.

If you don't get the water out, your weed will mold. This curing process has been done prolly millions of times. For those who don't cure properly, moldy weed is what you have to look forward to.
 

Zarnon

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stony said:
The initial drying takes about 50% of the water weight out. After a proper cure, you're weed will lose 80% of it's fresh harvested weight. There is no way around this
Agreed, as to total loss, but I put them in drier than that. If it is mostly dry when you put them in the water loss will be minimal (although I've never weighed through the process so cannot say with accuracy).

If I lose only 50% water initially, then I'll have to have an additional 50% water loss while in the jar to get a total 75% reduction in water (too lazy to do the calc for 80% lol). I start with most of my water loss up front then jar them.

Here's why; the way I was taught was to keep the humidity level even after the first few days, rather than shoot for a steady decline. The finish is really nice. I am sure there are more than one way to cure (as in most things MJ), so not casting any stones on your method.

Don't get me wrong! Always avoid high levels of humidity. It will screw up your taste and aroma even if you don't get mold. I made a terrible error when I put those 'humidity' pellets before long-term storage. I'm still kicking myself for that one.
 
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Stoney Bud

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Zarnon said:
I start with most of my water loss up front then jar them.
Many more variables are involved than just the loss of water. Reducing the plants moisture as slowly as possible has been shown in all the tobacco industry as causing a mellower and smoother smoke of the end product. Rapid initial drying will lessen those qualities. This has been proven with no doubt remaining. It sounds like you're trying to change the results that have already been proven.

However, if your particular tastes are more towards the product you end with using your methods, then, that's what really counts.

I used to know a guy who put an entire orange peal in each ounce of weed he had and left it for week. He swore it made it smoke smoother and that it had an excellant taste.

The guy was happy, and I was always happy to tell him I had just smoked a bowl and really didn't want any more. His weed tasted like crap. It tasted like something from a dumpster to me.

If you enjoy your weed as you smoke it, then that is what is the most important to a grower who goes through an entire grow to have his own stock of weed.

Good luck to you man!
 

Zarnon

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Well, if you're implying that I think my weed tastes great while others think it tastes like crap thats an opinion based on conjecture. I have smoked great pot in Thailand, Holland, Colombia and the West Coast. I may not have smoked your weed, but I have a pretty good idea what the benchmark is.

It's not me being 'happy' with whatever I can churn out but looking how to produce the best quality. I dry over 5 days, I cure over weeks, with continuing improvement over months. I thought that's what it was all about?

stony said:
Rapid initial drying will lessen those qualities. This has been proven with no doubt remaining. It sounds like you're trying to change the results that have already been proven.
With no doubt remaining? If you have the definitive article with a 50%- then another 50% loss that would be great, because whether it's your way, my way or both our ways I'm looking for the best. I'd appreciate the link or citation.

Me, change results? I'm still trying to figure out where these results are. LOL!

I don't know how you got it from Tobacco curing. It's very different from MJ. The main benchmark appears to be temperature which ranges from 100-130f and high humidity. This guy adds 5-6 liters per 24 hours to his cure chamber.[http://www.coffinails.com/images/curing_chamber_top.jpg].

I couldn't find anything related to how much remaining water has to be in the plant at the start of cure. The only thing that appears similar between the MJ and tobacco is both take time. I'm with ya there bro!

I think dismissing the possibility others may do as well with different methods pegs you as rigid unless you've tried theirs and seen results. I was taught by someone with years of experience. Undoubtedly he is cantankerous about a few points as well. That doesn't mean it's the last word.

Best of luck to you too! :D
 
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Stoney Bud

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Zarnon:
Well, if you're implying that I think my weed tastes great while others think it tastes like crap that is your opinion as well.

Stoney:
Having never smoked your weed, I'd of course have no idea what it tastes like. My point being that it isn't my method that I've described, it's a method used by a lot of people who have tried both ways and like the end result of the method I use better. Lot's of people use no drying time at all to further the smoothing effect of the longer cure.

Zarnon:
I have smoked great pot in Thailand, Holland, Colombia and the West Coast. I may not have smoked your weed, but I have a pretty good idea what the benchmark is.

Stoney:
Hey, I wasn't implying otherwise man. Don't get all upset over a discussion of curing technique, please.

Zarnon:
It's not me being 'happy' with whatever I can churn out but looking how to produce the best quality. I dry over 5 days, I cure goes over weeks, with continuing improvement over months. I thought that's what it was all about?

Stoney:
You're doing exactly the same thing I am then. I just dry for two more days than you do. Mine is done in a 30% humidity for 7 days. Yours, it seems would have just slightly more water in it than mine on entering curing.

Zarnon:
With no doubt remaining? If you have the definitive article with a 50%- then another 50% loss that would be great, because whether it's your way, my way or both our ways I'm looking for the best. I'd appreciate the link or citation.

Me, change results? I'm still trying to figure out where these results are. LOL!

I don't know how you got it from Tobacco curing tho. It is very different from MJ. The main benchmark appears to be temperature which ranges from 100-130f and high humidity. This guy adds 5-6 liters per 24 hours to his cure chamber.[http://www.coffinails.com/images/curing_chamber_top.jpg].

I couldn't find anything related to how much remaining water has to be in the plant at the start of cure. The only thing that appears similar between the MJ and tobacco is both take time. I'm with ya there bro!

I think dismissing the possibility others may do as well with different methods pegs you as rigid unless you've tried theirs and seen results. I was taught by someone with years of experience. Undoubtedly he is cantankerous about a few points as well. That doesn't mean it's the last word.

Best of luck to you too!

Me rigid? Not for years. Hahahahahaahaha

Different strokes for different folks as they say.

"Cantankerous as well"? Hahahahaahahaha, that was good.

Enjoy the weed man. That's the entire point in the whole thing.
 

Zarnon

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Dude, I'm not p'od, but I'm not sure why I got linked with 'orange-peel-clueless-guy'. I used orange peels in high school; 25 years ago. Is there some connection? I feel I have a decent frame of reference for herb, that's all. I and my circle of friends greatly enjoy what I grow. The usual response to a bowl of mine is "Who's is this?" and "Where can I get some?" 'Nuff said.

Nothing I've come across or has been posted on this thread shows a set level of water in the plant to start cure with is more beneficial. "I and my friends agree" is a far cry from "It's been proven. No doubt remaining". Until someone does blinded taste testing it all comes down to the individual. That's cool, but your experience and mine may vary. ;) I have cured 'wetter' weed and had it turn out fine but the incidence of mold increased.

stoneybud said:
Enjoy the weed man. That's the entire point in the whole thing.
Ab-so-rutery Reorge!! :D
 
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Stoney Bud

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Zarnon said:
Nothing I've come across or has been posted on this thread shows a set level of water in the plant to start cure with is more beneficial. "I and my friends agree" is a far cry from "It's been proven. No doubt remaining".
After almost 45 years of growing, *I* am a cite.

You can choose to believe it or not, that is your option of course.

Your comment about taking the weed out of your curing jars as wet as it went into them is what prompted this discussion. After further explanation, it seems that this is not what you're doing. After all the discussion, you've said that in fact, you're doing almost exactly what I do for a cure. You just start with yours a couple of days wetter than I do. The moisture content of your weed after jar curing couldn't be the same as when it was put into the jars.

Yes, after several hundred crops of weed, there is absolutely no doubt remaining that my method works. I've only the word of all the growers that have used my method, as they are hesitant to issue signed declarations about their technique of curing marijuana, but over the years, I would estimate that number of growers to be in the hundreds.
 

Ravishing_68

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these are two of my favorite members...and glad to see they were just miscommunicating... I don't like arguments.

Let me try to bring this up to par for those of us that are trying to learn to harvest and cure:

1. cut branches, trim close to bud. Hang in a dark, not too dry, not too humid spot (say 40%? room humidity) for a week?
2. after a weeks time this is where I'm hearing discrepency...not that one is right, one is wrong, just different....
Some say place it on a screen to dry more. Some say to put it in a jar and open a couple times a day and genty turn buds. Also there is baggies, to be opened like in the jar, some say cardboard box.
What I have done is from the hanging bud, I cut them off the branch and put them in the cardboard box for at least a few days, turning gently. Then when I feel they've kind of stabilized, I put them in the jar with sealable lid, that I open a couple of times a day.
How does one know when they are actually "cured"?

Day 77c.jpg
 

KADE

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Ravishing_68 said:
How does one know when they are actually "cured"?
I find the smell just gets a certain way and I know it is cured how i like it... usually doesn't take long for me... say a month from the day it is cut.
 

Elephant Man

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KADE said:
I find the smell just gets a certain way and I know it is cured how i like it... usually doesn't take long for me... say a month from the day it is cut.
TBG said something similar that really helped me...gonna probably misquote him but here goes...if it is drying too fast, it will smell like hay...time to go back in the jar...if it smells funky at all, ammonia like...time to come out of jar.
 

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Elephant Man said:
TBG said something similar that really helped me...gonna probably misquote him but here goes...if it is drying too fast, it will smell like hay...time to go back in the jar...if it smells funky at all, ammonia like...time to come out of jar.
100% correct.... you can tell.. easy... I dry it out until it gets the hay smell and/or the stem snaps then I bag and jar all of it. I always dry my smaller clippings in shoeboxes too... I find it sucks the water up good.
 

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funny how sometimes its difficult to gather meaning out of a post, or just the written word. above we have a couple comments, haha, "fairly stable" and "i put it in dry" and because that was overlooked to some degree, a whole new meaning was gathered. haha. oh man. communication is weird. looks to me like we are preaching to the choir. both of you have provided a welth of info here as to the why we are to dry slowly and how to go about drying slowly. thanks!!
 

Zarnon

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stoney said:
After almost 45 years of growing, *I* am a cite. You can choose to believe it or not, that is your option of course.
It's not about believing or taking sides. Regardless of the source if there is doubt, test it and report the results.

I don't doubt your method, I'm sure it almost the same way I do which turns out great. I'm also positive by your comments you are putting it in jars at far less than 50%. The reason I measured water loss was not to prove you wrong, but to make sure my advice was accurate for the newb.

funstar said:
funny how sometimes its difficult to gather meaning out of a post,
Yep, that's why it's so important to quantitate if you can.

The nice thing about laws of thermodynamics (evaporation) is that they don't change based on opinion, who has the most friends, or how much experience you have

I measured water loss over days with a room temp of 70 degrees and a humidity of 35%. I used a digital scale for measurement. The initial bud was tagged and all parts (stem) have been kept intact.

My initial weight was 25 grams. After 4 days the stems were still soft, the bud still somewhat 'squishy'. Weight was 7 grams. That is 28% of initial weight. *

If you are waiting the same time to put them in the jars under these conditions you will have approximately this water loss. If you're waiting longer the loss is greater. That is fact.

If you are waiting till the 'stems snap' (which in my exper is too dry) they will be drier than 75%. That is fact.

When I hit my sweet spot for cure the herb smells great (right now one smells like cookies, the other pine) and improves over a 3 month period. If I store it right it is great 2 years later.

The nice thing about science is accurate results are replicable. You don't have to take my word on it. If you have experience curing do this; weigh your bud when cut then when when you're ready to jar it, weigh it again. Do the weigh second so you're not swayed by the numbers.

*[Personally I put in just a little too wet. I shoulda waited one more day but I had to borrow the scale! :D No big, just pull out for a bit and wait until 'feels' drier then rejar (usu about 1-3 hours). As time goes on it will get to the point where you just open the jar and recir air. At about 2 weeks it's usu stable to keep closed.]
 

Elephant Man

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Sorry guys...but this is a bit silly...

Gonna settle this right now, both of you send me all your weed, and I will tell you what tastes best. :p

I know a guy that hangs his for months untrimmed, unconventional I know, but hey...if it does the trick...more power too him.

Just here to grow and have a good time and help those with questions and concerns...not really sure where this thread is going...both of you seem very happy with your own results.
 

Zarnon

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Rav, I think you should learn by touch. But you have some leeway. The first thing is to develop touch and smell.

I (lightly!!!) squeeze a bud to see what the water content is like. As it dries it 'gives' less. I try to combo it with seeing how soft the stems get.

I used to use the 'stems snap' thing but in my exper that is too dry. I put the temp and humid (which is about a normal house) so you can see. You'd mentioned putting in your grow chamber for dry which I've done and works great, esp if you have humidity temp controls (usu I have something else goin in there so I can't use it).

I hang the bigger buds and use trays for the smaller. You can use a screen which will probably promote better drying. I've found for small buds it doesn't matter as much.

People have said if it smells like ammonia, must, mold get it out, absolutely! I think you can catch it before that by feel. If the bud is going from sweet smelling to 'overripe' I want to get some fresh air around them.
 
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Stoney Bud

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I leave my weed to hang in 30% humidity in an air conditioned room for 7 days. I then bag it and begin the curing process.

It works great for me. I don't snap stems or weigh it. I can tell from experience that the weed is ready to bag and cure the way I like it to be done.

When I express a method that *I* use, I don't mean that *anyone* should follow my lead. I mean it only as a statement of *my* method.

I'm happy that your method works for you.
 

Zarnon

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EM, I think you're missing the point. It's not to be 'right', it's to give out accurate advice. If I'd measured the bud at four days and it was a 50% loss I would be the first to give Stoney credit.

My teacher, who has a ton of exper, etc has said different. I am not going to take his word either. So I weighed it (for the first time) to figure out the results.

EM didn't you read this?

me said:
I don't doubt your method, I'm sure it almost the same way I do which turns out great.
There is no personal attack on Stoney. I'm saying I'm sure he does a great job! The more I read, the more I'm sure our methods are almost exactly the same. We had a difference of opinion that started when he gave me figures of water loss that didn't jibe with what I learned. I measured and reported the results. No. Big. Whoop.

Stoney if you are waiting for a longer period of time with a humidity of 30 you will have less than 75% water left in 5 days. It's not something someone chooses to believe. It's a matter of evaporation, not opinion or experience.

If we don't quantitate what we do to some extent, then on what basis are we throwing out figures that others may follow? This is one of the reasons so many newbs have probs out of the gate IMHO. They see the pretty pictures, read the conflicting opinions and have little concrete to go on.

I will teach what I know from experience grounded in fact. It's nice to know what's behind the advice I'm giving. It's not a matter of 'trust me' because I know I'll never have all the answers. If there's something I don't know I'll research it. If I can, I'll test it. If I learn something new I'll change it.

Anyways, I think I've posted enough on what should have been a minor point. Don't take my word for it, test for yourself. ;)

PS, no offense EM but if you hang it in a closet for months it will probably taste like the shirts in it LOL :cool:
 

Elephant Man

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Zarnon said:
EM, I think you're missing the point. It's not to be 'right', it's to give out accurate advice. If I'd measured the bud at four days and it was a 50% loss I would be the first to give Stoney credit.

My teacher, who has a ton of exper, etc has said different. I am not going to take his word either. So I weighed it (for the first time) to figure out the results.

EM didn't you read this?



I'm saying I'm sure Stoney does a great job! I'm sure our methods are almost exactly the same. He started out quoting percentages of water loss as fact having never measured himself. That's what's screwing people up.

Stoney if you are waiting for a longer period of time with a humidity of 30 for 7 days you will have less than 75% water loss. It's a matter of evaporation, not anyone's opinion or experience.

If we don't quantitate what we do to some extent, how the heck do we advise anyone? This is one of the reasons so many newbs have probs out of the gate IMHO. They see the pretty pictures and have no concrete way to get there.

Sorry a difference of opinion makes people uncomfortable, but I am not going to change my approach because of that (but I'm probably going to stick to my own thread after this). I'm passionate about growing and hope I never get to the point where I don't have something to learn. I will teach (hopefully) from a perspective that is grounded in fact and I can explain to someone how I got there if they have questions.

Anyways, I think I've posted enough. Don't take my word for it, test for yourself. ;)
Hey Zarnon, I am just a silly guy who puts way too much effort in growing weeds too. ;) I love your experiments, and please post details of them all...I'm just not sure they should be posted in Stoney's grow journal ya know? Tis' a sacred place for some. I have to admit, if some big synthetics or hydro discussion started in my gj, I would want it moved too.

I have hung plants and jarred them at varying degrees of dryness, I would have to agree...don't really think you should wait for the stem snap. But to try and give someone a figure on exactly how many days to hang...well...seems different for me every time...too many variables with temp, humidity, density, etc. I go by touch and smell too.

I think there is a general swing on this board to 'keep it simple', something you and I obviously don't do, but peeps like Stoney do it beautifully...some tubs and GH and hydroton and noobs are growing their own. And I think that is what it is all about, just screws loose in me cause me to do everything the hard way. I do alot more messing around here in the lab than I actually post about...because I have noticed quite a few newcomers confused enough as it is.
 

Zarnon

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Dude, I am sorry if what I post in 'sacred places' is not appreciated. But we're not on a grow thread anymore which is why I jumped back in.

Otherwise, yeah, I'm staying out of grow journals, although I really invite people to challenge me or posting more than a few paragraphs of their thoughts. At the same time I've come to understanding how some want to keep it to a diary and that's cool.

This whole topic started when Stoney, not me, gave concrete numbers I felt were inaccurate. Everything else is subjective and the way it was presented was an absolute. Do I have to stop posting at that point or agree with it by saying nothing? What's your advice?

There is a lot of complexity to growing whether you are going into detail about it or not. It's when you move beyond 'trust me', that you're going to have to get into specifics.

Even if someone's methods look simple there is a lot to them, otherwise it would be only a matter of plunking some seeds in a bucket, turning on the light and waiting for the big buds.
 
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