Any Electicans Around. PEASE HELP!!!

[mikeybtoken]

So this is what I have http://www.bestgrowlights.com/product/FSSI734057
Basically a 220/110- 30 amp 4 light timer box.
I ran a heavy duty underground #6 - 3 wire w/copper ground, 40ft out to my grow room off of my house panal adding a 60amp breaker.
I put in the matching 3 prong outlet and then jumped off of it for a 110 outlet to run this timer box.
The problem that I have with this set up is that it does not allow me to have constant 110 or 220 while the timer box is off.
I have two 1000w HPS lights for flower and one MH for veg, at this time I can not run them at the same time on different schedules. Nor do I have constant power for fans heaters, etc, while the timer is off.

So I need to figure out a way to (safely) jump off of the main wire to add a couple of 110 outlets and another 220 outlet for continious power.
As you can probably already tell I am no electrician and do not wish to hire one for obvious reasons.
I have been thinking about adding a hot tub sub panel, or something but before I spend any money I thought that I should try this first.

Thanks in advance for any ideas or help!!!!

Peace MBT

Sorry I should have edited my 400ft type o when the Hemp Goddess was asking about a 400ft run.

 

[nouvellechef]

PM Viper, he knows his stuff.

 

[bwanabud]

You need to drop in a 6 breaker panel box, and connect your feeder #6 wire to it. Make sure to run a ground rod earth bar to the sub panel.

Than you can pull independant 220v or 110 circuits out of it. Make sure you pick up a 2 pole breaker (120% amp rating) and some singles in 20amp (if you have 12 gauge wire) for your 110v circuits.

Hope that helps - get back if you need more info. Be carefull, do it rite, or you'll burn your house down.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Is 6 g wire large enough for a 400' run?

 

[Heemhoff17]

You need to drop in a 6 breaker panel box, and connect your feeder #6 wire to it. Make sure to run a ground rod earth bar to the sub panel.

Than you can pull independant 220v or 110 circuits out of it. Make sure you pick up a 2 pole breaker (120% amp rating) and some singles in 20amp (if you have 12 gauge wire) for your 110v circuits.

Hope that helps - get back if you need more info. Be carefull, do it rite, or you'll burn your house down.

:yeahthat:

 

[mikeybtoken]

Thanks Everyone
You people are awesome!!! Ok so I went Home Depot online

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...=mode+matchpartialmax&style=A&catalogId=10053

Now which box do I need to get. It seems to me that there are several that will work but I'm still not really sure which one I need.



Thanks again EVERYONE!!!

Peace MBT

 

[mikeybtoken]

PS
I promise that I will get what ever I need to make sure that I don't
BURN DOWN THE HOUSE!!! LOL

Peace MBT

 

[mikeybtoken]

How about this one,
125Amp,12 Spaces,24 Circuit,HOM1224M125TC Indoor Main Breaker Panel

It's the closest one (that I could find at Home Depot) to what bwanabud is talking about. I think????.....I will wait to see what you guys and girls have to say.

Thanks MBT

 

[Growdude]

I dont see why you couldnt wire a single 110 and 220 to bypass the timer, dont bypass the breaker just the timer contacts.

The box has the breakers in it so you would not need a subpanel to do it, just wire the recpeticals right off the breakers.

 

[mikeybtoken]

Hi Growdude
I see no way to bypass the timer without bypassing the breakers on this box. The box it's self has a 220 outlet cord and a 110 outlet cord (which is where the timer is pluged in) The recepticals that are wired to the breakers are all on the same schedule as the timer. For expample, there is no way to get constant power thru the box on a 12/12 timed schedule.
I reallly appreciate everyones thoughts and advice and I thankyou all.
I think that it is pretty clear that I should install a sub panel.
I have decieded to go with the 125 Amp 12 Space Indoor Main from Home Depot?

bwanabud says:
You need to drop in a 6 breaker panel box, and connect your feeder #6 wire to it. Make sure to run a ground rod earth bar to the sub panel.

Than you can pull independant 220v or 110 circuits out of it. Make sure you pick up a 2 pole breaker (120% amp rating) and some singles in 20amp (if you have 12 gauge wire) for your 110v circuits.

Hope that helps - get back if you need more info. Be carefull, do it rite, or you'll burn your house down.

I'm not sure what he means by a (120% amp rating) but I figure that I can start another step by step thread with pics, on how to go about hooking this thing up so that I don't burn down the house. LOL

I will start a thread titled Installing A Sub Panel so that anybody else needing to do so can learn from my mistakes.

I will close this thread with this last post and invite you all to help out with a step by step INSTALLING A SUBPANEL

Thanks Again To Everyone!!!
Peace MBT

 

[Growdude]

Im sure it hard to explain and to do without seeing it but the fact is you have constant power from the cord, both 220 and 110, so if thats your only problem you just have to split the circuits to feed one outlet all the time.

 

[mikeybtoken]

Hi Growdude, YES....you are correct! I will do my best explain before I start the other thread with pics so you will be able to see what I have going on.
OK So when I bought the Timer Box, I too thought that it would act as a Sub Panel. Which it technically does, but only to anything that is on the same timer schedule.
Now...Back to how I have my power hooked up.
Basically I ran a 6/3 w/ copper ground, to the room off of a 60amp breaker in my Main Panel.
Hooked it up to a dryer cord outlet and then jumped another 110 outlet off of the dryer cord outlet.
So yes, you are correct, I already have power, but at this time it is protected only by the 60amp breaker.
However I'm pretty darn sure that everything other that the 110 outlet jumped off of the dry cord is up to code.
I have been researching this for awhile now, but I am by no means an electrician. At the same time this is really not that difficult. But as bwanabud said I just want to make sure that it is done right.
I just got back from Home Depot and I got most all of the parts and I'm charging my camera as we speak.
What do you think Growdude should I start another thread or just continue this one?
I'll be posting pics soon either way so that we can all see what I'm working with, what I'm doing and why!

I will take any help that I can get to make sure that I DON'T BURN DOWN THE HOUSE!!! LOL

Thanks To Everyone Again!

Peace MBT

 

[viper]

hello mikeybtoken , nice little set-up you got there , nice little price tag too .

first of all you need to take that 110 that you jumped off that 30 amp plug and remove it immediately . thats a fire hazzard bud (yikes)

yeah it looks as though the timer is what feeds the receptacle panel , it is going to be easier for you a non electrician to just add a sub panel you'll only have to connect 4 wires instead of trying to bypass the timer , it can be done like growdude said . ill get to all that but lets start out with this , im curious as to how you ran that 6/3 romex 400 ft ? is it lying on the ground ? is it buried ? is it ran in pipe ? is it uf rated ? need to know this to be safe .

Im glad to help on an individual basis or a group but I wouldnt reccommend a sub panel tutorial type DIY thread because well , one needs to be licensed
and everyones needs and availabilities are not the same .

 

[mikeybtoken]

Hi Viper
Yeah I new when I did it that It would tempory until I could figure out what the heck I actually needed to do.
Sorry I must have made a type o on the length of the wire that I ran, it is only 40ft.......sorry. Not 400ft
It is an underground rated cable, most of it is ran along the side of the main structure tied to the T-111, in underground rated conduit. There is about four feet that is underground but it's all in underground rated PVC
It's been awhile since I ran it, it could be #5 I'm not really sure. I do remember that it is really big heavy stuff. When I bought it from Home Depot I told them that I was putting in a huge hot tub and then went the next size up. I am pretty sure that it would meet code, with the exception of the jumped 110. I know...know big no no! Disconected! Check!
OK so lets see here, first of all THANKS for stopping by viper much appreciated!!! I can take all the help I can get.
No tutorial.....cool!!!
OK so this is where I'm at. I have made several trips to Home Depot talking to there electrician and I have been reseaching all of the DIY sites on how to install a sub panel in a garage or a shop. My story has been that I have a shop with a welder, table saw and compressor that all run on 220.

So this is what I have so far.
125 amp 8 slot Homeline Sub Panel
Two 30 amp dual pole breakers
Two 20 amp breakers

Four 20 amp 125 watt dual outlets
Two 20 amp 250volt single outlets
Two metal boxes for four 125v outlets
Two metal boxes for single 250v outlets
Cover plates, 1/2 in staples, clamp conectors
8ft copper grounding rod, and clamp
I have about about 30ft of some 10/3 with a copper ground. I'm not sure but I thought that I could use this stuff for my 220 circuts.
The wire says NM-B 10-3 W/G 600V CIRTEX-U (UL) On It??? If not I can easily get something different, but this stuff was free.
My plan was to install all of the boxes first, including the panel. At this point I'm not sure weather I should run each 110-4 outlet boxes off of a seperate
20amp circuts with it own wire...or just jump off of one circut with one wire?

Sorry man I'm fadding fast I do have some pics but I'm just to stoned and tired to do any more for now. All of this thinking stuff hurts my little brain!!!
I can post pics of any part of this if I'm not making sense at any point.
I'm in no hurry and can take as much time needed to get this right.
Thanks Again To viper and the whole crew her at MP

Peace MBT

 

[bwanabud]

Sorry I've had the flu - will try to find the other thread

 

[bwanabud]

I'm back Can't find the other thread...so let's cover the basic info needed here.

(1) What is the Feeder panel (house box) main breaker size ? This is supplying the available current to the subpanel(grow room). It should be at least 150 amps, or you could have "brown out" issues. You have the ability to "pull" 60a off of that main. That doesn't mean you should/can.
(2)Is the 6ga. wire solid or stranded? The capacity for 6ga. solid @ 40' is 55/60 amps(based on elec. co. provided voltage). You can only effectivly "pull" 80% of that value thru the breaker. Thus the 120% figure stated in my previous post. EXAMPLE: A 20 amp breaker is "good" for 16a of continuous current load.
(3)What is the max. current use of your needed devices in the grow room ? (lights, fans, heaters, cooling, ect....). The ratings are listed on the devices, get a calculator out-and start adding.

Bottom line: What you want or need, in available power requirements....does not mean you have the capacity the provide it.
Do the homework first.

 

[viper]

mikeybtoken , i hear ya man , it is a lot to fathom on short notice but your doing fine ,

got nothin but time .

bwanabud has made some valid points ,, yo bro , your confusing residential with commercial .

mikey

you do need to add up or list all the equipment that your wanting to run so we can size the overcurrent protective device/breaker . you do need to know if you have the availability in your existing panel . the 80% rule does NOT apply to branch circuits in residential houses . therefore the 120% rule which is actually 125 % rule would not apply, only to motors which you'll have very few of if any .

heres a mock make up , if your running

3 - 1000w 240v lights = 12.5 amps
2-8" exhaust fans 1.6a each=3.2
2-oscilating fans .4a each=.8
dehumidifier 5a
space heater 12.5a
4-air pumps .04a each=.16


you would be at 34.16 amps max

i calculated the lights being 240v because of the timer box you purchased that had the 4 240v outlets and i dont see any other reason having 240v duplex receptacles/plugs

all this does depend on the availability of your existing panel

 

[bwanabud]

Viper - I beg to differ: It is standard practice to size based on 80% continuous load.

CIRCUIT BREAKER AMPERE RATINGS
Circuit breakers have an ampere rating (typically marked on the end of the operating handle). This is the maximum continuous current that the breaker can carry without exceeding its rating. As a general rule the circuit breaker’s ampere rating should be the same as the conductor’s ampacity. In other words we would not want to put a 60 amp breaker on a 10 amp wire. Breakers are tested in open air, with a temperature of some 40 or 50 degrees C.
When a breaker is placed within an enclosure, cooling airflow is restricted; this reduces the ability of the breaker to carry a current to 80% of its ampere rating. When they are installed in an electrical enclosure, breakers will trip when a current in the amount of their rating is placed upon them continuously. Breakers are designed to be able to safely carry a current in excess of their rating for very very short periods of time to allow some types of electrical equipment (called inductive loads) such as motors to start up.
While not as common, some breakers are rated for 100% continuous loads. These are typically called supplementary protectors (SP) and not circuit breakers.

Excerpt from electrical engineering data. I'm only trying to help - not provide false info, or cause any unsafe situation (not that you are either). With out revealing my credentials or schooling...I know what I'm talking about.

I will be glad to walk away and let you take the helm.

 

[mikeybtoken]

Thanks Guys I'm much happier about doing this knowing that I can share the actual application with experienced people. I really don't want to Burn Down The House LOL
THANKYOU....THATNKYOU....THANKYOU BOTH!!!
I know that I can do this, at the same time I have never done anything like this so I just really want to be REALLY sure about what I'm doing.
First off it sounds to me like you both know way more than I'll ever know about this stuff and I know that BOTH of you can help me out here. There's plenty of me to go around...LOL I'm easily convinced that you both know you $$$$.
OK First off let me start by answering both of your questions and then I have a few of my own.....imagine that, LOL

bwanabud, I hope that your feeling better!

The Main House Breaker
Is a 200Amp, I know that it can handle a 60Amp Breaker because ther are already two installed in the panel.

The Cable to the Room
I will not be able to get actual spec on the cable until I pull some conduit off of it. I do know that it is the biggest cable in the Main Panel with the exception of the service cables to the box. I did not skimp on it, and it was not cheap. It is stranded?

Max Loads
viper you are really close on what I have now, I will be adding a portable AC/Unit, probably no bigger than a 10,000 BTU unit. I would like to make sure that I have enough to run another 1000w light in the future. I can't think of anything else other than a couple of 110 lights and a third heater if it get supper cold.

4 - 1000w 240v lights = 12.5 amps + 4amps = 16.5-17
2-8" exhaust fans 1.6a each=3.2
2-oscilating fans .4a each=.8
dehumidifier 5a
space heater 12.5a x 3 = 37.5
4-air pumps .04a each=.16
Portable AC Unit???

viper
i calculated the lights being 240v because of the timer box you purchased that had the 4 240v outlets and i dont see any other reason having 240v duplex receptacles/plugs

Ok so let me see if I can explain....there are two cords comming out of the
Timer Box/Panel a 220 that plugs into a 30a dryer outlet. Then a 110 cord that plus into a timer that control all of the power comming into and out of the Box. So when the timer switches to the off cycle, the box has no power comming out of it. I probably should have explaned this better from the start. So when I flip over to 12/12 I have no way to keep power to my veg room. I need a minimum of two 220 outlets, one for the timer box and another for one light and if I ever did get another light I would want three total. Two 20a and one 30a
That darn box has confused me since I bought it as well, the only thing that it really does is allows you to run four lights and two fan on the same timer. There is no way to get power through it when the timer is in off mode! I should have thrown up some pics but again I'm beat.
Time for these bongloads that I've been saving until I'm done here.
I did pick up a couple of pieces of 12/3 today but that about all that I got done on this today. I probably have about 25-30 ft of it. I was planning on buying 12/2 but I got the 12/3 for free. Just another wire to make it more confusing LOL
My Plan is to hang the boxes, run some wire and then I WILL POST SOME PICS! This may take me a few days.
Almost forgot...questions!!!
OK should I go ahead and add a Main Breaker to my new panel, so that I can cut all power with one switch. If I do, what size should it be, or does it have to be 125a to match the panel???
Do I have to run each 220 outlet on it's own circut, or can I run 2-20a-220v
outlets on one circut and the 30a 220 on another.
I'm not sure that I'm making any sense at this point so off to my bong loads and bed.
My brain is just not used to thinking this hard LOL
I THINK I CAN.....I THINK I CAN.....LOL

Peace MBT

PS If I disapear for a few days it's not because I'm ignoring anybody, I have health issues that sometimes stop me in my tracks for a day or two at a time so please be patient with me.
Thanks Again to you both and all here at MP

Peace!!!

 

[mikeybtoken]

Much better!!! It's amazing what some good sleep can do for a guy.
First things first let get some pics rolling. I have had some problems with my camera but I think that I have it figured out?
These first two pics should be of my Main 200amp Breaker Box.
I'm not sure if you can see in the first pic that the wires going into the 60amp breaker at the top left are slightly smaller than the cable that I installed to the 60amp breaker going to my room (bottom right) Still I will get make sure to get some specs off of it once I tear into it.
The second pic is just showing how I have it hooked up to the Main Panel.
I've got more I just want to see if this will work first.
Peace MBT