Legalization a think tank discussion

[snuggles]

If they were to legalize MJ/Hemp what would they have to do? Who stands in the way and how would they get hurt? Is taxing it enough? How much would they need to tax it? What would the new laws be like? Anything at all you would like to say about the effects on other businesses?

Rant and ramble as much as you want, stray as much as you want but give us your ideas. Even if you don't quite know the ins and outs say what's on your mind.

But no name calling and be nice please I know it is a passionate subject but lets remember we are all friends here and on the same side...discuss nice and maybe we can all learn from each other which is the beauty of it all. Let's have some fun with this one

Also come up with your own ideas as to how to get it legalized, strategies and what not. How will it happen?

 

[POTUS]

First, thank you snuggles, for starting such an interesting thread. This is a real thought provoker. Great idea!
You didn't specify a Country that this is for, and I think there are about 20 represented here, so I'll make my answer fit what would be my opinion if it were in ANY country.

1. If they were to legalize MJ/Hemp what would they have to do?

Obviously, the majority of the voters would have to have a ballot on which to gain legalization. Just getting that ballot approved to exist on a National level would be an almost impossible task, regardless of the country the ballot would be for. Some countries would be easier than others to gain a ballot in, but all of the countries that MJ is illegal in now, would be tough.

2. Who stands in the way and how would they get hurt?

I hate to generalize, but I think the largest block of people who would present a unified front against MJ legalization would be the various churches. The "It will turn you into a Godless Heathen" syndrome is alive and well in many countries.

After them, I believe the second largest group would be the established Government officials now in place. A second syndrome known as "Don't rock the boat that floated you into office" would kick in hard.

The third of the largest groups against MJ would be the straight laced, "Never did it, never will" bunch. Those folks aren't going to change their minds for any reason. They've locked in the thought that if THEY don't *need* it, then *nobody* should! They're another version of the "Don't rock the boat" syndrome.

I don't think MJ has a chance of being legalized anywhere that it's now illegal, for many, many DECADES. The rules that now apply to MJ are so entrenched, I don't think a large enough block of people can be established to overturn the exiting way of thinking. Those who own the ball can stop the game by simply taking their ball home. The established anti-marijuana block are so entrenched and so damn established, that it'll take a HUGE worldwide movement to cause the overturning of the existing laws of even a single country as a whole. My country, the USA, would be one of the last to legalize it and I believe that won't happen for at least another century, if the event I speak of below doesn't happen.

Who would it hurt? Only those whose income or existence depend on MJ's illegality now. Half the cops would be out of work. Half the Justice departments of each country.

A lot of alcohol related businesses that have a narrow profit margin would fail. I believe that many people who are just looking for a good softening of reality while playing a set of darts or a game of pool, or out for a night of dancing would find that MJ fills their needs when they can enjoy it at the club. Booze would take the hit.

The logistical roll-down effect would cause a lot of temporary unemployment. For example, the Judge needs no courtroom, no staff for MJ related offences. Therefore, they don't need the desks, office equipment or electricity/heat/air conditioning that was needed so the lessening of those factors causes unemployment. This rolls down in thousands of directions and has to be addressed BEFORE legalizing MJ.

3. Is taxing it enough? How much would they need to tax it?

It could, and would be taxed exactly as alcohol is now. They would make a freaking fortune from it. Combined with the savings in legal outpouring of money, it would be a boon to every country. Of course, if you're one of the people put out of work as a result, you wouldn't agree.

4. What would the new laws be like? Anything at all you would like to say about the effects on other businesses?

After a few generations of legal pot use, I don't think anyone would really give a crap. It would be thought of much as the prohibition of alcohol in the USA is thought of now. Interesting, foolish, expensive, fruitless, but now, not very interesting.

I covered how it would affect other businesses in number "2" above.


Well, you asked, and I've put my thoughts down. Many will disagree, no doubt, many will agree.

As each person here reads the "DECADES" estimate I made, I'll hear the screams of denial, disbelief and prayers of an alternate ending, but that is my opinion. I've seen more than 7 decades of life. During that time, I've seen my examples proven in many ways. I honestly, truly hope that I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

My actual forecast is that the most devastating of all events will happen prior to the legalization of MJ. After that global event, I believe that MJ will be considered too trivial to be concerned with. It will pass into legalization without anyone really caring.

I believe that event will be a Worldwide Pandemic of Influenza. I see it coming within the next 50 years. I believe that two or more BILLIONS of people throughout the world will die during it. This event will cause a major shift in world politics and a more intense focusing of attention on things that really matter to survival.

MJ just won't be that big of thing then.

 

[Rehab is for Quitters]

Great idea for a thread, snuggles. I agree that legalization will be next to impossible (except for medical use) but I personlly would be happy with decriminalization for recreational users.

I live in California and recently a 'treatment vs incarceration' initiative (prop 36) passed and of course we lead the nation in medical mj (prop 215). In every gubernatorial election we have there is a candidate whose sole platform is the legalization of mj (but of course we've also had strippers on the ballot not to mention Gary Coleman so that doesn;t seem so weird out here). Our current governor even openly admitted to having smoked (and inhaled!) mj. So my perspective based on the progress over the past decade is that we are well on the way towards decriminalization in the state of California.

That said, we are still subject to federal law but the good news is these cases of conflicting jurisdiction usually end up in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals which is notoriously liberal.

As for the rest of the country, I don't know, but I don't hold much hope for the bible belt due to the widespread prevelance of the 'It Will Turn You Into a Godless Heathen' Syndrome...

 

[Bleek187]

lol ok.. sence we kinda jacked that other thread.. i guess this is a little better.. i think personaly this great United States of America would be way better off to change the tax system.. there is a name for it but i forgot what it is sorry.. but basicly the system now is to tax the money we make, then tax us when we spend that money, then tax us agin for owning the things we buy with this money... so we get taxd at least 2 times on every dime we make... Now.. the other way of doing this would be to do away with the IRS along with income and property tax.. the only tax would be sales tax.. this tax goes up from 7% to around 15%... and this percent could be adjusted to make this system run smooth for everyone... This is what happens because of this system... lower to middle class people save TONS of money under this system.. we can afford to buy more things now because we no longer have to worry about paying every year just to own them... also the government still makes the same if not more money through this tax system because,,,,,, ilegal money is now being spent and taxed... (its being washd and spent anyway so why not get a peace of that action) what happens now is a drug dealer who wants to go buy a brand new BMW just goes to the BMW store and drops 80 grand on it.. thats 80 grand worth of drug money geting taxd that never would have under the system we have now... drug dealer has his car, government has the tax from the sale, everybodys happy... This system has one single draw back... the rich people will no longer have all the tax breaks they have now BUT should they? i think no.. and if you have enough money for this to make a differance to you than you need to share =) regardless noone would be hurt from this system and this country would be a much better place expesualy for the majority of the population.. middle class and people in poverty would see a huge change.. seams to me like these are the people.. we the people.. its some crazy percent of the population that has all the wealth.. like 1 person of the population has 90% of the wealth.. dont quote me on that but its a crazy percentage close to that...

OK all that being said.... i donno what my point was... i got lost... sorry =)

 

[mojosat]

The biggest opposers will be the endless pockets of big tobbacco, liquor, and the pharmecutical companies.

Taxes would be an issue too, becuase honestly, I would never buy it from a store if it had a legal status. It's not like making your own alcohol which is relativley diffucult as was evident by my brother-in-laws horrendous attempts at beer making and he is literally a rocket scientist. All it takes is a little bit of knowledge, some decent dirt, light, and water.

If it was legal I would have it hanging baskets on my front stoop, line my backyard with it like an annual privacy fence, and put Christmas lights on it in the front window during the holidays.

 

[mojosat]

lol ok.. sence we kinda jacked that other thread.. i guess this is a little better.. i think personaly this great United States of America would be way better off to change the tax system.. there is a name for it but i forgot what it is sorry.. but basicly the system now is to tax the money we make, then tax us when we spend that money, then tax us agin for owning the things we buy with this money... so we get taxd at least 2 times on every dime we make... Now.. the other way of doing this would be to do away with the IRS along with income and property tax.. the only tax would be sales tax.. this tax goes up from 7% to around 15%... and this percent could be adjusted to make this system run smooth for everyone... This is what happens because of this system... lower to middle class people save TONS of money under this system.. we can afford to buy more things now because we no longer have to worry about paying every year just to own them... also the government still makes the same if not more money through this tax system because,,,,,, ilegal money is now being spent and taxed... (its being washd and spent anyway so why not get a peace of that action) what happens now is a drug dealer who wants to go buy a brand new BMW just goes to the BMW store and drops 80 grand on it.. thats 80 grand worth of drug money geting taxd that never would have under the system we have now... drug dealer has his car, government has the tax from the sale, everybodys happy... This system has one single draw back... the rich people will no longer have all the tax breaks they have now BUT should they? i think no.. and if you have enough money for this to make a differance to you than you need to share =) regardless noone would be hurt from this system and this country would be a much better place expesualy for the majority of the population.. middle class and people in poverty would see a huge change.. seams to me like these are the people.. we the people.. its some crazy percent of the population that has all the wealth.. like 1 person of the population has 90% of the wealth.. dont quote me on that but its a crazy percentage close to that...

OK all that being said.... i donno what my point was... i got lost... sorry =)

The fair tax, and despite what Neal Boortz tells us, its a pipe dream in this country.

I love you avatar btw.

 

[Bleek187]

yea fair tax... it sounds great but like you said... its about as probable as geting weed legalized...

i wasnt sure if that avatar was gonna fly on here but i just had to use it lol

 

[ChatNoir]

In Turkey, everything works differently, illegal things can still be illegal yet they can be legal at the same time so this version is for the Turkey I live in.

Cons of Cannabis' Being İllegal

Most of the cannabis sales is connected to PKK terorist organisation, this organisation has slaughtered more than 30,000 innocent people in past ten years.

Despite the medical usage of Cannabis in USA and Europe as well as Canada, Turkey is in an ignorant bliss so a lot of people can not reach Medical Cannabis for their ailments.

There are 4513 registered Talasemy patient living in here as well as 300,000 carrier which every single of them suffer greatly and most of them can afford grow outdoor but a few of them can buy any pharmaceutics also majority of these people are children and teens as most of them can not live pass teenage years. These people are without medicine.

There is a reasonable amount of cash flow into preventive laws but a little improvement as kids at age of 16 is smoking on streets.

Turkey is in deep economic crisis and is depended on outside sources for certain products which cannabis plant can supply.


Cons of Cannabis' Being İllegal

I am thinking but I can not find any...


Conditions That Prevent Cannabis From Being Legal

First of all is uneducated people whom believe in Cannabis is a deadly drug and it is addictive and it has no medical quality.

Since early 1940s Turkey is the lapdog of certain countries so basically Turkey has little to non control over its resources as USA and EU is dictating how much sugar beet that the Turkey can plant, not to use boron resources, most of oil resources are under the properties of USA companies and much more...

There are a lot of pharmaceutical companies that reaps the benefits of a huge market and there are so called doctors without ethics whom prescribe harsh but inefficient medicine to people in expense of their health so these so called doctors gain huge amounts of cash and companies earn a great deal as well.


What may Turkey Gain If It Legalises Cannabis Plant

Turkey is surrounded by sea and is Mediterranean Turkey so its climate is perfect for Cannabis agriculture and in a lot of places there are fields which is hard to deal with so no agriculture is applied. Cannabis can turn these fields into a usable form. There are 36.551.000 decares of agricultural area that is left to fallow and 113.403.000 decares of agricultural area that is not suitable for classic agriculture so to speak Cannabis plant will bring life to these areas.

Moreover there is a tourism problem in recent years because of foreign propaganda. Cannabis plant can solve this problem, Cannabis tourism will increase the number of tourist in tenfold. Whom would smoke in a cold place like Amsterdam where they can smoke next to Mediterranean sea in the ruins of a kingdom lost to time?

Legalisation and taxation of Cannabis has two side benefits, firstly cash flow to terrorist organisations will be cut and one less soldier dies, one less family drowns in sorrows, one less mother holds the coffin of her son in tears... Moreover much less expense for army. The other benefit of legalisation and taxation of Cannabis will provide government a great deal of cash flow from direct sales, retail sales, industry sales, pharmaceutical sales and so on...

On the medical aspect, there are a lot of patients in need of cheap medicine or a medicine that they can breed themselves, most of these people are either living on Turkeyside or living in poor conditions in poor conditions in the sprawls of big cities. They can easily breed a plant without much care and have themselves a steady source of medicine.


Current Situation of Cannabis In Turkey

Using Cannabis for hemp products is legal under very strict control as not many farmers are planting cannabis plants also planting is restricted to a few providences. Farmers are inspected monthly and before harvest they are inspected weekly and their harvest is inspected as well. Under these circumstances it is next to impossible for most of the farmers whom value privacy and work with their families to grow cannabis plant.

Medical usage is also legal in theory but in practice no single doctor can prescribe Cannabis plant for medical usage and even though they get proper documentation, finish the paper work and get appropriate approvals there is no law for breeding cannabis plant at home as well as government does not breed medical cannabis plant. There is also no information cultivated about medical usage of cannabis plant, research is forbidden as well.

Regulation, Legalisation and Taxation of Cannabis In Turkey

First of all, government should collect information about Cannabis plant, medical cannabis, intoxicative strains, hemp strains and much more.

Farmers should get licences for breeding each type of Cannabis plant and breed accordingly, taxed accordingly also monopoly system can be used which worked fine for tobacco as well as alcohol products. Individual producers get licences and produce their production and directly sell it to government monopoly then government monopoly distributes the production to stores which are licensed to sell these productions. Under tax, totally legal, totally under government control. These process should also let individual seed banks to sell seeds, with licence and taxation of course.

It should be free to produce plant for own sake to a certain limit, such as 100 plants though mafia and terrorist organisations will find cannabis plant distasteful as their prices can not race with government prices so only patients as well as individuals whom wishes to consume their own will breed afterwards or some families for the sake of seeds in order to eat such as some families have olive trees including my grandparents whom eat their own olives and finds industrial grade olives distasteful.


Possible Abuses of Legalisation

As far as we know, alcohol and tobacco products is sold to children below legal age, same is possible for cannabis though this time we can be sure of this cannabis product is not tainted with anything from hard drugs to toxic substances.

Cannabis will be more available and people may drive while they are intoxicated though it is same for alcohol and alcohol has worse effect then cannabis on this case and it is still legal.

There will be fake cannabis plants sold like face alcohol and fake medicine, in this case buying your product from a trustworthy reseller will prevent all these problems, preferably from a licensed monopoly reseller.


How Can We Make Cannabis Legal

Keyword is public awareness, newspapers and televisions can be your worst enemy as well as best friend. This is a tricky and salty road indeed. As an example, currently these Turkey is under the rule of right wing and their power is weakening like Bush's in USA, so letting left wing newspapers flood the media with cannabis information is vital for two important factors. Firstly they will create a public awareness, less people think that cannabis is an evil plant the better, the more people whom believes in cannabis is future cash crop which can save the Turkey, the better. Secondly, we are using the political wars for our gain, they will don the cause as if their lives depend on it and the more they believe in it, the more real it becomes.

Visual media and personal education is important as well, it is important to erase the good-for-nothing pothead image and place an image of an old lady consuming cannabis plant in order to achieve a healthy life, a doctorate student smoking for concretion or people frying their food in healthy hemp oil, cultural usage of hemp seeds, a clean energy source and the TV can achieve all these, it is much powerful than newspapers and journals. People seeing their idol consuming cannabis plant for medical as well as intoxicative usages would like to do it as well, they will love plant. If you are living in a Turkey with these rates, it is best to use TV though first using newspapers will create a better ground for TV step.

Rates of Reading, Listening and Watching TV In Turkey
Journals 4% Books 4,5% Newspapers 22%, Radio 25%, TV 95%



In Conclusion, it is possible, it is beneficial and we need to work on it.

 

[POTUS]

Hey Cornellius, I don't know about anyone else, but I have no idea what country you're talking about when you say "this country".

I don't know where you live man...

 

[ChatNoir]

Hey Cornellius, I don't know about anyone else, but I have no idea what country you're talking about when you say "this country".

I don't know where you live man...

I wanted to keep it anonymous, just the current news of people getting busted makes me nervous... Just a few people know where I do live... Though these recent happenstances made me nervous enough to change even my user name...

 

[POTUS]

I wanted to keep it anonymous, just the current news of people getting busted makes me nervous... Just a few people know where I do live... Though these recent happenstances made me nervous enough to change even my user name...

Ok man, I know you're on earth....I've almost got you figured out...hehe

 

[ChatNoir]

Ok man, I know you're on earth....I've almost got you figured out...hehe

Now, I changed it... Lets see...

 

[wakebud77]

if i had to say, either Canada, France, or another euro counrty. But i dont think it should be made legal for everyone. Im in the US and i do agree with medcinal but think about how much our country abuses preceription drugs. I know 4 people who OD'ed on different drugs RIP... but to tell you the truth i like who i have smoked with in the past. If you smoke on a normal basis you know what you like, how much you can handle(paranoid, stoned stupid, sleepy), and you know when not to smoke(work, school, taking care of kids, etc.) I am a little worried about some stupid people getting into one of my biggest loves in smoking. I am not for the full legalization but at least the decriminalization of it, and putting it at the lowest care for LEO's. I dont think people should drive on it(people drink and a drive a lil so it would happen anyways), i dont think that people in a position of power or in a life saving posistion should be on it while being at work on call etc. But i do think that the jail time, and huge fines are bad for everyone. I agree with Cali's treatment vs. incarceration is the way all countries should be. If a person shows they can't handle the ability to use it responsibly then they shouldn't be allowed to use it like liquor. I think that in the states there does need to be more testing into what it really does because most of the testing occuring is one sided. The goverment does tests and private people do tests right now and there should be a bigger test group for it. I think there should be an age restriction with being able to use it. 21 maybe? I never did like being 18 and not being able to drink but now i look at it and realize why. Americans are idiots. We think that we know what is good for us at a young age and in truth we could be throwing our lives away just looking for fun. I know a few people that got into drinking/smoking/ popping pills and cant stop now they have tickets cant pay them cant get jobs to pay them and its just a revolving circle. Or they use a substance and they become junkies just looking for their next hit. I think 21 is acceptable with fines for use under 21, and i dont believe that kids under 18 should use it excessively. 3 strike rule maybe? then tested and not allowed to use till older? But the biggest hurdle that is facing legalization is by far, tabacco, alcohol companies. They would lose alot of buisness if people ever found out the truth that bud isn't as bad as the goverment would have us believe. They pay off the beaurocratc dogs to follow their lead into tricking the country. I think in this counrty 15 years from now most states will be testing some form of a medcinal program or it will be apporved by the federal goverment, and in 20-25 it will be legal. maybe less but medcinal will lead the way. Testing into it will begin to recieve more apporval by the goverment in a few years as medcinal is gaining support in few states here. It is one of the best medcines out there and people will learn that learn they can grow it themselves to help alot of ailments, and it is a very cheap medicine. Then I think the word will spread about how it is pretty much harmless and alot safer than liquor. from there idk but thats my thoughts...

 

[snuggles]

What you are describing is called being responisble, if you go to norml.org they have a list that responsible smokers should follow. Also no one has ever died from a MJ overdose, do you know anyone who get get 15 lbs. into their body in under 15 minutes...LOL. Your medicine cabinet is more danger to you and your family than a plant that makes you high....

Also I have to say it, medical marijuana is not a joke or being abused. Just look at almost any over the counter drug or all the silly drugs we are prescribed, if you do some research you will see that America "overprescribes" drugs, cha ching. Here are some MM uses, treating addiction (they have pills), chemo (improves appetite, sleep, and decrease nausea which lead to a better immune system), asthma, pain, GI problems, hyperactivity, etc etc. If you think MM was a joke at one point or you still do what do you think about all these prescription drugs? The pharma companies are so full of shite and so are the politicians it's pathetic. Hey everyone and their mom is on antidepressants, did you know you have to be chemically depressed for most to work, it's a joke IMO. Not depression but the way they just write these scripts without checking people out...it's wrong.

When I was on probation for my prior "crimes", I drank a lot LOL. I was offered Chantix, that's right the county was in cahoots with the makers of Chantix, I said no of course but look at how the pharma and the legal systems are getting together. Let me get this straight, I can't smoke a plant or eat it but I can get myself some Chantix for my problems and they will help me get it...Chantix is so close to being pulled right now...it's sick and it's wrong. 20 years from now Pharma could be telling us how to live LOL it's scarey.

 

[clanchattan]

outlawed in 1937 to make way for Du Pont to monopolize the rope market.
Nylon. no way if it were leagalized for the pharm corperations to make any money off of it. picture this... how many of you would support a bill that says its legal to be prescribed, owned(with a script), ingested, but not to begrown by the public. the only way for pharm./ govt. to genetate coin is to leave everyone here who grows it outside the legal blanket. unless there is a tax stamp, federal and state, oh wait..................there is and boy does that WORK.

 

[Bleek187]

it was outlawed for many more reasons.. it was used to descriminate aginst mexicans and blacks.. along with a list of other stupid reasons.. and the tax stamp was made for the purpose of outlawing it.. you have to have a tax stamp to grow or have it.. so they just didnt produce any tax stamps.. it was just a way to get around the law at the time and to make it ilegal.. if you look at the history of it and how it came to be ilegal its actualy quite rediculous..

 

[kubefuism]

The time to act is here fellow supporters....It's on the table. go to congress.org; H.R. 5842-H.R.5843--Federal Decrim. in USA. Please speak your mind and contact your house rep. This is how laws are made and changed. Get out. Start educating. I've called both of mine and am pettioning. Please help me spread the word...

 

[BBFan]

Good info kubefuism- it puts it in the hands of the state- so snuggles you're still screwed in backwards PA. It would still be illegal to grow though from what I've read.

 

[snuggles]

I'm a firm believer in the fact that they would not allow us to grow it...slimey politicians...even if it was legal. I'm for decriminaliztion, ala no jail just citation stuff. Legalization requires the gov't, you want them growing the MJ? LOL yeah well PA is going to be a thing of the past

 

[snuggles]

The time to act is here fellow supporters....It's on the table. go to congress.org; H.R. 5842-H.R.5843--Federal Decrim. in USA. Please speak your mind and contact your house rep. This is how laws are made and changed. Get out. Start educating. I've called both of mine and am pettioning. Please help me spread the word...

Exactly!!!! it's not the antis keeping us down so much as it is the non active smoker. We outnumber them, what does that tell you?