Aeroponics?

[Mutt]

Anyone out there got a great link or info for aeroponics?
besides wikipedia and stuff.

 

[Stoney Bud]

Hey Mutt, Aeroponics isn't discussed much in the real world. The principles and practices work but it's not a practical method of growing on a large scale. Too costly and the entire system is too fragile.

I've learned most of what's out there by picking the information from a zillion sources. If you have questions, I'd be glad to help.

There are many problems that must be overcome when using Aeroponics. Plant support is a big one, second only to machine dependability.

 

[Mutt]

Thanks. I am still doing a lot of reading. I probably will have some questinos for you.

 

[GanjaGuru]

AFOAF used to rave about aeroponics.
I decieded to try it but instead of switching all of my 4' x 4' ebb n flo trays over to aero, I decieded to just substitute 1 of the trays for a small aero set-up.
Truely phenomonal growth.
BUT
like Stoney Bud said, it's touchy and you must check it numerous times a day.
Because if a nozzle clogs (and they do boy do they) you can lose a plant in as little as 6 hours.
Plus, if a plant dies (as they sometimes do), you'll likely lose all the plants in that tube. The roots spread out so temendously that they are intertwined with the roots of all the other plants. You can't remove them and they will adversely affect the other plants as they rot.

NOW, if you buy stainless steel sprayers AND clean them often AND use r/o water AND check the nozzles 3 or 4 times a day AND use liquid chem. nutes, you can grow bigger buds quicker than anyone else.
But jeez, growing pot is supposed to be fun (to me at least); I dismantled my aero set-up after 1 grow (and losing 1/2 the plants) because it was too much work.
If you can't leave the house for more than 6 hours at a time that's a real drag.
However, if growing pot is your LIFE, go for it.

 

[Mutt]

Thanks GG.
I work at home gone maybe 10 hrs a week tops. and my hobbies is what keeps me sane at times. I am willing to try anything when it comes to cultivation, except birth control pills
My next grow I want to try it. I will prbably start an extensive grow guide for something like that.

 

[Stoney Bud]

Hey Mutt, you gotta remember that aeroponics is a generic name like hydroponics. There are hundreds of ways your can set each up. Check out a lot of material before you commit. In addition to all the ways GG mentioned, you can add all the ways that can get you in hydroponics as well, like pump failure, contaminents, nutrient death, shock....

But GG is absolutly right when he says you can grow the ultimate pot in aeroponics. Using it, you will have maxed out every variable that can be considered by a plant and it will ASTOUND you how fast they grow. The nutrient mix will take constant adjustment to counter stem splitting due to the rapid growth rate. A good method to fight this is also to use a direct fan onto the plants to stress them into optimum stem growth.

If you can use a multi-container setup and flower when the plants are only about 24 inches high, the turn around will blow your mind.

BUT...

Keep in mind what GG said. There is a real good chance that you will lose entire crops more than once. This form of ponics is not for the timid.

When you're ready, I'll help you get set up man.

 

[Mutt]

Thanks. I have experience with hydroponics on non-MJ grows. I know how verstile it is. I just wasn't up for it on MJ grow quite yet. I am very curious on this one though. I figure bagseed a couple of grows and then get into cloning with it.

I plan on fabricating the thing entirely myself, except the pumps and stuff. I want to set up in a box. with controlled conditioned air intake/carbon scrubber outake and pump CO2 basically a self contained unit. I am figuring 3 months planning and about 3 months fabrication. Enough for 4-6 plants.

I will start my journal upon the start of planning. I just have seen a lot of like hybrid aeroponic systems. I want to do a very contained unit. Like I said I have time on my hands and love my hobbies, no matter how complicated.

I am still reading tons though. I am fascinated by what I have read so far.

 

[sicnarf]

has anyone ever used the Aero Machine 6 Plant Site? (http://www.hydrowarehouse.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/6/products_id/730I) I wonder if this thing is bulit to fail? I'm thinking about buying it---six plants under a 250w HPS with the Aero Machine 6 Plant Site, will 30,000 lumens be enough?

 

[Stoney Bud]

has anyone ever used the Aero Machine 6 Plant Site? (http://www.hydrowarehouse.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/6/products_id/730I) I wonder if this thing is built to fail? I'm thinking about buying it---six plants under a 250w HPS with the Aero Machine 6 Plant Site, will 30,000 lumen's be enough?

I would think again on that model. It's got a history of being difficult to access the reservoir for ph testing, nutrient adjustment or anything else you may need to do. The plant sites are too close together to do much with any plant over 6 inches tall and it uses a low pressure, easy to clog, type pump and spraying system.

To get your best bang for your buck, a Hydroponic eb and flow system works about 80 percent as well as aeroponics and does so with no problems. If you're interested, let me know. I'd be glad to help design one for your particular grow space.

Now, on the lights. MJ is capable of using up to 3 thousand lumen's per/sq ft.

To maximize the plants growth, that's your limit. It will grow in as little as 1 thousand lumen's per/sq ft, but it's production of flowers will be lessened proportionally.

A lumen is the amount of light cast upon 1 square foot of the inner surface of a hollow sphere of 1-foot radius with an international candle in its center.
Click this link for more about this; CLICK HERE and scroll to "Lumen".

What's the difference between Watts and Lumen's?
Lumen's is a measurement of perceived brightness in the visual spectrum. Watts, in contrast, is a measurement of lights but not of light itself. For example, a 100w lamp uses 100 watts of electricity to produce the light it emits. Therefore, there is an efficiency ratio of watts into lumen's, and this is a crucial factor regarding horticultural lights.

So, a typical 100w household bulb can provide about 1,500 lumen's, converting each watt into about 15 lumen's. Whereas a standard fluorescent household bulb converts each watt into about 50 lumen's. It is therefore a more efficient light source, providing more light.

At the other end of the scale, HID lamps are a lot more efficient, converting each watt into about 150 lumen's.

Plants generally like the most amount of lumen's possible. However, lumen's diminish the further away the light source is from the plants. Therefore, theoretically, it would be possible to grow plants under 100w household lamps, but due to the intense heat produced, particularly from halogens, it is unsuitable to place them very close to your plants.
Click here to see more information about this; CLICK HERE

If your budget is limited, then you can get your best results by using a HPS for the entire grow. MJ grows well in each stage with HPS. This way, you get one light.

Remember, if you put 10 growers in the same room and ask them the same question, you'll get at least 10 different answers. What I've told you is the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

You need to read, read, read and read some more about growing MJ and all of it's factors. Look at Mutt's signature and you'll find some excellent links with which you can do just that.

Good luck to you.

Have fun and no stress. You'll live as long as I have.
(I have great grandchildren)

 

[Mutt]

Therefore, theoretically, it would be possible to grow plants under 100w household lamps, but due to the intense heat produced, particularly from halogens, it is unsuitable to place them very close to your plants.

This one I think is somewhat accurate, but...
Each type of bulb will emit a certain spectrum. The reason incandescents cannot be used as it has more of a green spectrum(this is why mercury vapor will not work as well). This is reflected by the plant itself. What humans perceive as green is the light being reflected from the plant. All our eyes are is a light collector. we see reflection of the spectrum being reflected and our eyes decipher that into color. (this is why something has a different color under artificial light, but when brought into the sunlight the color is more defined and accurate). to get more on this better start reading up on your physics.

Now to further explain this one. There are LED training experiments that are being done as we speak by some MJ cultivators. LED or light emitting diode is a very efficient for of light by isolating the spectrum on each diode. but are only minimal in wattage so makes it impractical right at the moment, but I for-see this as a possible breakthrough for indoor horticulturists. but some cultivators found that putting either blue or red LED strip that the plant responded to those colors.
HPS is more of the reddish spectrum. MH is more of the white and blue spectrums. Florous about the same.

So the critical aspect of lighting is not so much lumens (even though it is a very important factor) in my opinion. it is the CRI (Color Rendition Index) of the lamp itself.
this is defined as a measure of light quality. A rating of a 100 is natural sunlight. The closer the rendition is to a 100 the better its ability to actually show the human eye the true colors. So the spectrum of the sun is truly covered.

So in a nut shell, Lumens are very important. As this is the amount of light being produced. but the CRI is just as critical as to cover the spectrum with artificial light the mimics that actual sun. IMO. Edit: this is why I believe that florous and MH for veg. this imitates the sun in the summer months due to its spectrum. HPS for flower as this imitates the fall. As each wavelength of light color has its own frequency and will be filtered by our atmosphere differently during each season. (theory on my part). there I go again with my rant on useless info again.

But here is why most use an HPS (IMO) during flower is the lumen efficiency is higher then an Metal Halide and it covers the spectrum really needed during flower.

example from a generic bulb manuf.
70watt HPS=6400 lumens and a CRI of 22 (mainly yellow/orange light) 8 bucks
70watt MH=5040 lumens at a 65 CRI. (mainly white/blue light) 20 bucks

so cost coefficient for price per bulb and amount of lumens produced and the energy consumed the HPS is the way to go. but the MH for veg has the highest CRI, which in my opinion is best for veg. growth. but the HPS is best for flower dictated by the spectrum itself.

I need to read up on quartz halogen and why they don't work well. they have a CRI of a 100. edit: low lumen per watt. right light too low of lumens. 2200 @ 150watts.

edit-wholly shit I just realized this is an aero question not lighting. wow that was off-topic but I am not erasing this too much typing.

 

[El Diablo Verde]

I don't know a ton about ponics, but I had a friend that grew about 8-10 grows with hydroponics and never had any major problems. But, he tried to switch half his grow over to aero and lost a shit load of plants. The weed was great, but it cost him way to much so he sold all of his aero supplies and went back to hydro. I'd recommend it because its sooo much easier than aero and there's much less hassle involved.

 

[Stoney Bud]

I need to read up on quartz halogen and why they don't work well. they have a CRI of a 100. edit: low lumen per watt. right light too low of lumens. 2200 @ 150watts.

The various halogen lights also put out an unacceptable amount of heat per/lumen. A real problem with an indoor grow. In an outdoor tent garden, no problem. Different plants. The cost factor is always not far from consideration as well.

 

[Stoney Bud]

I don't know a ton about ponics, but I had a friend that grew about 8-10 grows with hydroponics and never had any major problems. But, he tried to switch half his grow over to aero and lost a shit load of plants. The weed was great, but it cost him way to much so he sold all of his aero supplies and went back to hydro. I'd recommend it because its sooo much easier than aero and there's much less hassle involved.

Hey man! How's things? Hey, aero growing is awesome, but you've got to use the proper equipment for it to work. I use a 100 psi pump and the "Fogger" SS misting head off of SS plumbing. At this pressure, the heads seldom clog. The only clogs I get are from it being off for extended periods of time. Here's an excerpt from the linked page:

Spray Description​

Fog-like at 100 PSI, will drift in slight wind. These nozzles break up water into smallest droplets possible at relatively low pressures. A cone 2' to 4' high with an 80o spray angle is developed. Nozzles are 1/8" male pipe thread, with an easily removable screw-in strainer. See Booster Pumps if you need to increase your water pressure to achieve maximum benefit. 1/2" copper pipe should be used for pressures above 150 PSI.



http://www.hydro-gardens.com/mistingnozzles.htm

100 PSI PISTON MISTING PUMP​

• Produces up to 100 PSI
• For *intermittent duty only
  (max.5 minutes on per cycle)
• Runs from 1-20 nozzles.
• Self priming after initial prime
• Very quiet operation

• Uses less electricity than a standard 100 watt light bulb.
• Includes a 6 foot power cord, 1/4" hose barb brass fittings and pump mounting bracket
• Available in 110V or 220V 50/60 Hz

• Also available without power cord, diode, hose fittings and mounting bracket. Call for a quote.
• Use for terrariums, patios, greenhouses, aeroponics, indoor and outdoor cooling etc.

* Our definition of intermittent duty for this pump is a maximum of 5 minutes on with a minimum of 1 minute off between cycles.

28 Cycle Electronic Digital Timer
​

Controls incandescent lamps, electronic equipment, water pumps and many other items. Easy to program. Grounded plug and receptacle. Program up to 14 on/off cycles per day with a 1 minute minimum "on" time.

Actual model may be different in appearance, but specifications will remain the same.
​

​

• Plugs directly into wall outlet.
• Manual override on/off switch.
• LCD digital clock and readout.
• 3-prong grounded plug and receptacle.
• 7 Day Programming.

• Controls all types of loads, including fluorescent lamps
• To the minute accuracy
• One year warranty.
• Competitively priced.

ON TIME: Minimum 1 Minute. Maximum 23 Hrs. 59 Minutes. SPECIFICATIONS:

15 amps (1875 watts) 120 volts AC "R" Resistive
15 amps (1875 watts) 120 volts AC "H" Conductive
500 watts "T" Tungsten 1/3 H.P. 120 volts AC 60 Hz
UL, SA Approved

​

ITEM #POWERQUANTITYPRICEDIGI128110V1$39.00​

http://www.cloudtops.com/mistpumps.htm

 

[El Diablo Verde]

Hey stoney, I wanted to ask you a qurstion. Me and my roommates were thinking about upgrading on our next grow to hyrdoponics. We've never grown hydroponically and have a 54" by 20" bathub that has a ceiling clearence of 7'6" in our bathroom that we grow in. I just found a local hydro shop and was looking for some recommendations of some set-ups I could use in that space that could eventually be moved into our next house later this summer/fall and expand apon. We have a 1000w HPS and our buying a MH conversion bulb for veg. My buddy has offered to help but I figured I'd ask the master. Any help you could give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Eggman]

Stony, Aero is going to be wave of the future. Just a heads-up. On a large scale plant support is a huge issue, but it's been worked out about 2 years ago. I've been growing for almost 12 years and it hasn't come very far, because it doesn't have to. But, unles you're growing in PVC support is tricky. The clips they have these days work alright, but high end clips are nice; they have cloth at the end so the effects on the plant are nothing.

In PVC the pots are anchored using either a screw or a screw eye and that is hooked to the pot. As far as how fragile aero is, it' snot fragile at all. Just filter the PVC and you're golden. When I lived in California and grew veggies outside, I had a full aero system with 65 plants. Never a problem except the chickens would eat the plants and once that dogs pissed on them. Even that didn't do much harm. Nothing like dog piss peppers! If you have any questions about aero, let me know. Where I go to college we have an entire greenhouse dedicated to aero.