Anybody Tried LEDs for Vegging?

[WeedHopper]

Let the Show begin. Cant wait to see something I have yet to see.:icon_smile:

 

[Auburn1985]

Let the Show begin. Cant wait to see something I have yet to see.:icon_smile:

Well, I'll report results with pics...

I'm no LED crusader...I just believe in modern technology (I work in a high-tech business, just FYI), so maybe that explains my (maybe biased) slant toward technological advances...

Maybe I'm wrong. If I see that I'm wrong, I won't have any qualms about admitting it and going back to HO T5's for vegging...

I'm not trying to win a contest here...

I'm just interested enough in LEDs to find out for myself...at the risk of losing money....

Wish me luck my friend...

 

[WeedHopper]

I dont have any money to lose to find out,,so I will just hide and watch.

 

[Auburn1985]

I dont have any money to lose to find out,,so I will just hide and watch.

Cool man...

I've got no common sense or anything truly important in life...just a bit of retirement money + social security...in 15 years...lol

 

[Auburn1985]

Well, like I said, I got about 5.5 ounces from a 300W HPS scrog (which actually was not that great a yield). So if 1 oz is about what a 235W LED will produce, there really is no comparison, even with a mediocre HPS scrog.

Although I do GREATLY respect your experience and opinion, I find it very hard to believe that side-by-side, properly-done, and equal grows of HPS vs MODERN LEDs would favor HPS by 500%...maybe they would, for all I know...

I'm committed to HPS for flowering...but I believe that modern LEDs from reputable manufacturers have closed the flowering gap between LEDs and HPS by more than 500%...but not really close to equal, I know...

But for vegging, I believe that modern LEDs have MAYBE surpassed T5s and HPS in every category except up-front cost...I'll find out for myself soon as my LED veg light arrives next week...then I won't have to rely on reports, innuendo, or possibly-faked LED grow journals...I'll know the truth first-hand...

Just like you, I want the truth to be known and accurately reported so that growers get the most out of their grows...

I just want to find out for myself...and I'll report my results honestly...I promise...

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

I was not trying to say that I believe that HPS routinely beats LED by 500%, but the question was asked and I replied with what I got from HPS. And like I said, that grow wasn't even that great of a yield--just .5 grams per watt, not too impressive...

I have seen some nice results from LEDs. However they cost over a thousand apiece and were custom made to specifications. There also seemed to be a lot of micro management. I am not saying that LEDs will not get there (although I have been saying this for about 10 years), but right now, most of them are way over-hyped and over-priced. The LED industry has hurt itself by making outrageous claims that the lights simply do not stand up to (like a 90W UFO replacing a 400W HPS). I still do not believe that LEDs have surpassed T5s. I have seen nothing that makes me believe that. I am not bashing LEDs, but am just disgusted with the lies that the entire industry seems to want to perpetrate.

I will watch for your grow journal.

 

[NorCalHal]

I have not tried LED's at all, lets get that out there first.
With that said, of all the pro growers that I know, not one has used LED's for either veg or flower, and believe if there was ANY kind of improvement, they would follow that way for sure.
For the guy that wants some head smoke, sure, they will work. It will also produce good herb too I'm sure.
From what I have seen, the throw on the LED's are not enough to penetrate thick canopies, which are needed to achieve big yields of tight nug. they simply do not penetrate enough.
If you hung a 800 watt panel over a 4x4 area, it will not light up the whole area properly, just basically right underneath the fixture, where a HPS, or MH, will light up that same area well.

Again, not everyone is after the same results. Some folks are happy with producing just enough head smoke. Growing situations calso call for different lighting methods, number 1 being heat control. If it is hard to control, LED's might be the way to go.

Personally for Veg, I use T5's for the first week or so, then go to MH.
Nothing will beat a 1000w MH for veg, as long as you can control heat.

 

[Auburn1985]

I have not tried LED's at all, lets get that out there first.
With that said, of all the pro growers that I know, not one has used LED's for either veg or flower, and believe if there was ANY kind of improvement, they would follow that way for sure.
For the guy that wants some head smoke, sure, they will work. It will also produce good herb too I'm sure.
From what I have seen, the throw on the LED's are not enough to penetrate thick canopies, which are needed to achieve big yields of tight nug. they simply do not penetrate enough.
If you hung a 800 watt panel over a 4x4 area, it will not light up the whole area properly, just basically right underneath the fixture, where a HPS, or MH, will light up that same area well.

Again, not everyone is after the same results. Some folks are happy with producing just enough head smoke. Growing situations calso call for different lighting methods, number 1 being heat control. If it is hard to control, LED's might be the way to go.

Personally for Veg, I use T5's for the first week or so, then go to MH.
Nothing will beat a 1000w MH for veg, as long as you can control heat.

Well, I don't know what to say to that. Except that I know you're a very experienced grower with a LOT of credibility...

I too favor MH over T5 for vegging...but both were bulky with heat management issues (not so much for T5s)...

I veg 3-4 plants at a time in a 2.5 x 2 tent...and then flower under 600-watt HPS in a 3.5 x 3.5 grow room...

I'm hoping that a modern 200-watt LED will do well to veg 3-4 plants in a 2.5 x 2 grow tent...I've bet $400 on it...but then again I lost $500 at the Tunica Casinos 3 years ago...although I did have fun...

 

[NorCalHal]

For your situation Auburn, LED's might work out just fine. Small area with heat control issues. Just ridding yourself of the heat issues will prob improve yield.

 

[Auburn1985]

I was not trying to say that I believe that HPS routinely beats LED by 500%, but the question was asked and I replied with what I got from HPS. And like I said, that grow wasn't even that great of a yield--just .5 grams per watt, not too impressive...

I have seen some nice results from LEDs. However they cost over a thousand apiece and were custom made to specifications. There also seemed to be a lot of micro management. I am not saying that LEDs will not get there (although I have been saying this for about 10 years), but right now, most of them are way over-hyped and over-priced. The LED industry has hurt itself by making outrageous claims that the lights simply do not stand up to (like a 90W UFO replacing a 400W HPS). I still do not believe that LEDs have surpassed T5s. I have seen nothing that makes me believe that. I am not bashing LEDs, but am just disgusted with the lies that the entire industry seems to want to perpetrate.

I will watch for your grow journal.

I think you might be pleasantly surprised at the honesty of the California Light Works folks...they seem to be honest about the coverage of their lights, even if they are mistaken...

For example: I've had ENDLESS email chains with their sales personnel inquiring about the coverage of their VegMaster lights...

I initially wanted to use one of their 200-watt VegMasters to cover a 2x4 tent...at a cost of $400 for the light...but they clearly stated that it would take TWO of them to cover that space...at a cost of $800 total for the 2 lights...outrageous in my opinion, but I respected their honesty...

So I decided to reduce my veg space to a 2.5 x 2 (which is enough to veg my normal 3 plants) and give ONE of their 200-watt VegMasters a try...We'll see what it does...check my Herijuana Grow Journal for a detailed report...I'll have no qualms admitting if I made a mistake...

My pride went out the window a long time ago...so I have none left to protect...

 

[1lildog]

I used a bd450 for veg in a closet and will say that i was hoping for less heat. For me, keeping it cool in a closet, there's no better way than an adjustable hid with centrifugal fan. I currently use a t5 in line with an adjustable 600 in veg with the ballast out of the room. The hid fixture with the centrifugal fan help suck the heat out the the t5. I also have 4 bd700's that i use in between hps (usually adjusted to 750 watts) in flower. Buds under the led's always look better. If i used 1000 watts on the hid's it might even it out a little. I don't see any light drop off with the led's, but i trim lower growth. The light meter i have doesn't do the led's justice, it shows them to be inferior to other lighting. I think there must be light that it does not measure because the bd700's will do some serious bleaching if not careful.

 

[P Jammers]

I think you might be pleasantly surprised at the honesty of the California Light Works folks...they seem to be honest about the coverage of their lights, even if they are mistaken...

For example: I've had ENDLESS email chains with their sales personnel inquiring about the coverage of their VegMaster lights...

I initially wanted to use one of their 200-watt VegMasters to cover a 2x4 tent...at a cost of $400 for the light...but they clearly stated that it would take TWO of them to cover that space...at a cost of $800 total for the 2 lights...outrageous in my opinion, but I respected their honesty...

So I decided to reduce my veg space to a 2.5 x 2 (which is enough to veg my normal 3 plants) and give ONE of their 200-watt VegMasters a try...We'll see what it does...check my Herijuana Grow Journal for a detailed report...I'll have no qualms admitting if I made a mistake...

My pride went out the window a long time ago...so I have none left to protect...

I use two Apollo 4's over a 2x4 table for vegging and have had nothing but stellar results since changing over to LED's I also use them in flower and crush what I used to do with HPS bulbs with less wattage. Currently averaging about 1.65 GPW compared to about 1.2 or so when I ran HPS.

Total cost on those Apollo's was about 350 shipped. The California Light works lights work well, but at just about three times the cost. They also have a dedicated forum for the CLW fixtures, but most people using them look to be quite new to growing period.

hxxt dot w w w ledgrowlightforum dot com


Forgot to add that each Apollo 4 is 136 watts

 

[Tokaite]

High!

Have been first using my LED's @ 45 days till chop with great results.

Now, I started 34 days ago with LED only and I am still fiddling but so far so good...
I am using 4 x MS006 from Grow Northern and 2 x Helios Pro Sol 6

 

[PrimoOnlyForMe]

I grew many years ago....back then the debate was fluorescent or MH.
I'm in the Aquarium Reef hobby now and it is going through the exact thing you growers are experiencing.
Coral has been grown in tanks for years under MH lighting with impressive results. Like growing, heat is a major problem and the electricity consumption is high as well. Some use T5HO's with good results, but the best growing coral comes from the MH.

Now enter "Multichip LED" technology. These are 100 Watt LED's utilizing 5 different color spectrums on a single chip. Each chip has 100 LED's. Each of these spectrums are also controllable so you can have different power levels for different color spectrums. The cool thing here is you can ramp the lights up and down for a sunrise/high-noon/ sunset effect which is probably more beneficial to coral than plants, but I'm no expert. Being able to adjust the power of the spectrums seems to be a plus though, especially for flowering....you would boost your red spectrum.

5 channel Multichip Panel from AC-RC(ebay) using the following LED configuration:
Channel 1) 10S x 2P 10000K (EPISTAR: 45mils)
Channel 2) 10S x 2P 455nm (EPISTAR: 45mils) (blue, beneficial to chlorophyll C)
Channel 3) 10S x 420nm parallel with 10S x 430nm (EPILED: 45mils) (UV range)
Channel 4) 10S x 2P 445nm (EPISTAR: 45mils) (blue, beneficial to chlorophyll C)
Channel 5) 10S x 2P 15000K (EPISTAR: 45mils)

My main point here is that we are able to grow coral just as well as MH. The real trick is finding the correct color spectrums to include in the chip.

I have seen AC-RC list multichips designed for growing, so people are out there experimenting. I built 2-100 watt lights for about $400 .vs buying Reef Lighting LED's that are not as powerful for around $1200 each.

I'm thinking these two hobbies need to create a synergy to get the bugs worked out and the price more affordable. I think they will have to if enough of us DIY with better results at a far less price.

Here is the link to the build of the light if anyone is interested.
http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/showthread.php?94760-DIY-Multichip-LED-Build

 

[Hushpuppy]

Thanks for the info Primo I think you may be going too high in the spectrum though (JMO) but if the MH lighting gives such good results then I would try to mimic the spectrum range of it which is actually lower than the leds you listed. I know that MH seems to be good for promoting root growth in MJ but the green light within the bandwidth is not utilized by the plant. It may, however, be utilized by the coral as it is different creature.