Auto White Russian Timex GJ ~ OHC style

[legalize_freedom]

Dam...sorry I didn't look in here sooner!

THG it says that about the PH in the feed schedule in the water column of the pamphlet.

I stopped using the GO, only because of this, I decided I needed to d a little more research with it before jumping in with both feet. I think with it being an organic nute, that adding chemical PH adjusters are going to hurt alot of the micro life, that your working to build up with this feed. I can't believe that they (GO) would recommend not to adjust the ph, after I mixed a batch for flower the solution read like 5.3...that may be allright for hydro, but not soil. I don't see how the soil is supposed to buffer this as Jmans weed said, but I'm not saying it won't either, I just don't understand his thinking on that. If the soil is going to adjust our ph then why adjust at all?? My thinking on this is that I will buy organic PH adjusters, I know earth juice makes them. My conscienc just won't allow me to feed my plants a nute solution with that low of a ph...but I alos understand that adding the chems will hinder microbial life. That is my reasoning with getting the "organic adjusters.

I stopped feeding the GO right after that subject came up and my leaves on the ones I had fed it to had just started yellowing when I flushed them well, and re-fed with the FF line-up that I am familiar with. I still have not read into their website yet, because I'm not to the point of wanting to use the product, I figured I would run a couple clones on it side by side with the ff line-up, to get a good comparison on the product. Of course clones off the same mother.

So am I understanding that you flushed with PH adjusted water, and increased your nutes to full strength, feeding every watering? And the problem has gotten worse? If this is true, I would seriousely consider getting the organic PH adjuster, because the chems in what you are using now may be destroying the micro life that you are trying to build, inhibiting growth, or at least locking out something (N) IMO....this is of course just a guess though. I would probably go get the GH 3 part OHC! Seriously, NO one here has run this product except Jmansweed, and from his study he did not have all 8 of the products, I think he was just using the grow and bloom, and maybe a couple others. So no one here can really give you any solid advice on it. If you got the 3 part you would have all kinds of help, you could use the ph adjusters you have now, flush her out real well, and use stuff that others can help guide you on. No one has experience with that product yet, so we will all be guessing...of course if you swing it you will be the first successful with it here to, and you will be the GO guru...lol...good luck hon...I hope you figure something out. Sorry it's been so long since I popped in, I would have made this suggestion a while ago.

 

[IRISH]

or the two part, for yet even more ease...(flora-nova)...don't get any easier than this, and if you wanna see results, look at any of my grows! ...alls i use is grow, and bloom...nothing else...oh , and a little molasses...

 

[the chef]

:yeahthat: Molasses!

 

[legalize_freedom]

OHC I didn't mean for you to just throw in the towel either...I was only suggesting...if your as stubborn as me you will probably say screw that I'm going to figure this crap out. I was just saying at the risk of loosing the only thing you may have harvestable, you may want to consider it, being your first real grow and all. And then master the GO with one of your clones later maybe. I just know if you used something that the rest of us new something about instead of a new product test run...we could all help you better, as it is now we are all playing the guessing game on your grow...you never know GO may be crap, it may be off the market in 2 months...it is a free sample to see what we the growers think of it....just my 2 cents sis...I wanna see you smokin that girl! not sweating over her! (well I wouldn't mind seeing you wet either...lololol) JK Just trying to help you see another point of view.

This is why I flushed it out and decided to wait until I had full jars again (mine are gettin awfully low) then I can have the luxury of playing around a little. I want and need everything I can get in my flower room right now, so I'm going to run what I know works...good luck to ya sister!

 

[OldHippieChick]

LF no worries, I don't have any issue with moving on. I'm processing and in the middle of deciding whats next. Hang in there and give me a night to sleep on it. I'm listening. I'm just not reasolved at the moment. Much appreciation for your advice. Right now I'm reading up on the two lines you and Irish suggested....
xox
OHC

Hey CHEF I C U :ciao:

 

[the chef]

Hey OHC were behind ya 100%!

 

[sundancer245]

hiya OHC :ciao: your auto's look real nice, dont worry about the size, they will surprise you, like ham said, things happen real fast with the auto's... looks like everyones helping you get your ww back on track... i also use the GH 3 part flora series and have had good luck so far with it, i am going hydro soon and am going to continue using it for that...anyways good luck and lots of mojo for your babies

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

THG it says that about the PH in the feed schedule in the water column of the pamphlet.

Where? I cannot find it. What it says in my booklet is "Truly problematic water must filtered or pH adjusted before being used on plants".

I do not take this to mean that you should adjust the water prior to adding nutes...I can find absolutely nothing else about pH anywhere else in the pamphlet. Has anyone actually talked to GH about this?

 

[legalize_freedom]

Where? I cannot find it. What it says in my booklet is "Truly problematic water must filtered or pH adjusted before being used on plants".

I do not take this to mean that you should adjust the water prior to adding nutes...I can find absolutely nothing else about pH anywhere else in the pamphlet. Has anyone actually talked to GH about this?

I could not find that info either, it was not me that gave that info, I think it was Jmansweed, or Mr. Danny Boyles, I'd have to read through that thread to find out. What you are seeing is the only thing I could find on PH'ing the water to, You are asking the same questions I was asking those guys, because I couldn't find anything on GO saying not to adjust the mix either, I think whoever said it said it was on the G.O. website. I never did go to the website yet to check, I just decided to go with what I'm familiar with until I researched it further. But at any rate, I'm not the one who said that GO recomends not to adjust the PH, because it was a surprise to me also, and makes no sense IMO if the mix reads 5.3...then it needs adjusted...I think it was Jman that said this about not adjusting it...but I don't want to point fingers, as I'm not sure.

 

[Tact]

Hey OHC, checking back on your journal.

I myself am on week 6 vegetative of a White Russian grow. I have ran into two problems, both corrected now, but showed similar symptoms to what you are seeing in lightening of the leaves from pale-green/yellow/almost-white in spots. As well as necrosis of some leaves, and a browning drying up of several bottom leaves. My diagnosis of what was causing this was:

1) Incorrectly calibrated pH meter, I was feeding my plants 5.5-6.0 pH water, the runoff of my soil was 5.4 ish, while I was reading it to be 6.4-6.5, this was due to me not calibrating the meter correctly with the 7.0 calibration fluid. This lead to the plants being locked out of key nutrients in the soil (FFOF), specifically nitrogen/iron/magnesium, and a few others. As I didn't know initially I needed to recalibrate my meter I thought it was a deficiency issue, not a lock-out issue, so on one front check and make sure your pH meter is calibrated and accurately reading your pH both water and soil-runoff. Having said that I am also growing 1 Lemon Skunk, and 1 LA Woman, which were freebies from attitude with the WR order. Neither of those two plants exhibited the symptoms you and I both experience with the WR. In my humble opinion this is due to the fact that WR is White Widow x Ak47, and WW is notorious for being very finicky and high-maintenance. I believe the pH boundaries for WW are very tight, its environment needs to be well maintained and it has a particularly sensitive root-system to up-taking nutrients. One way to virtually insure that you are going to get a correct pH in the soil with every watering is to mix 1 TBSP Powdered Dolomite Sweet-Lime for every 2.5 gallons (ish?) of soil (this goes in the soil medium when you transplant, mix thoroughly, it does not go in the water for feeding), it is a static 7.0 pH and can NEVER rise above 7.0, so if you water with 6.5 it will be about 6.6-6.7, if you water with 6.0 it will be about 6.3. It is a safety net so to speak. This is a 'soil-buffer', meaning it is something within the soil that is controlling the soil and water that passes through into a certain, desired, and known, pH level, in this case 7.0, it is also going to supply the plant with magnesium and calcium (?), something that a lot of soils do not have enough of through the entire grow process.

2) My plants were heavily rootbound before I transplanted at week 5, they were in measly 1.4 L pots, which is equal to 1/3 of a gallon. I did not have any other pots and needed square pots to be able to fit them all in the space so had to order them online, abnormal delays meant I got the pots a week later then I should have, though still they would of been rootbound. This rootbound effect lead to my plants further inability to take up nutrients effectively, one thing that became noticeable was they needed water much more frequently then before in the same amount of soil. Now 4 days after transplanting they are doing alot better, the yellow leaves are actually regaining color, though the leaves with brown spots will never heal, the necrotic plant-tissue is dead forever. So in summation, WR genetics relating to WW make it VERY sensitive to pH and how it deals with nutrients via its root system. Your plants look like they will flower without issue, I totally understand that every time you see those unhealthy leaves you get sad inside, I had to prune the first 2 sets of leaves on each WR plant because they had all but dried up, but keep in mind the only thing in your pipe a month from now is going to be the flowers!

 

[legalize_freedom]

Irish you won't go without if you get sick...I believe in karma (and I'm only a few hrs away

 

[OldHippieChick]

I think he did... but guys my ph meter's new, I went over with a chat friend how I'm calibrating.... I don't see any roots looking in the holes on the bottom - well very little root. I feel like I know what root bound looks like? hmmmmmm I'm def going to the hydro store Sat. Here's the pics. Be brutal.

She seems to have grown a tad. Seems like the smaller middle leaves are deeper green but the tops are brighter yellow.... I plucked a few lower middle leaves off - that were crispy dead. I don't know how to explain it but she looked different this AM. Bitchy - Gnarly - Nasty ?

 

[IRISH]

ok. looks like a zinc deficiency. yellow/white, curled, necrotic. this is an extreme case HC. i want to suggest something so bad, but another part of me say's shut-up, they'll think you lost it. afterall, it would only be a half educated guess, half experiment...

heres what i would be asking you to do...

mix 1 tablespoon of unsulphered molasses, to 1 gallon ph'ed at 7.0, water. mix approximately 2 gallons of this. mix it, then ph it at 7...feed this through your plant until the run off shows 7.0...( a flush, and feed of micronutes, while raising the ph)...this is where i would begin, if it was mine... talk this over with others first by all means...but you better try something soon, or she will only get worse...you need to throw those nutes away, and go to one of the big box stores(US)lowes, home depot, menards., and find a store brand flowering nute...i found some stuff called superbloom at lowes.12-55-6. the npk will look like this. 12-55-6...

what i am suggesting is unorthodox to the realm of the grow, but, ask anyone, i am anything but ordinary. i'll try anything if it sounds feasible, and i know i can reverse the effects, by simply flushing, and trying something totally different yet again...

i am thinking out loud as to what i would seriously do HC. but, like i said, ask around...

 

[IRISH]

i can't believe i did'nt ask you what kind of soil your using? i see at the beginning of this journal, you state MG seed starter... what about the big girl???...

 

[OldHippieChick]

Same soil for both.
Let me read up on the zinc def. So stick with this 12-55-6 for how long? Just for a flush and then onto a traditional 2 or 3 part MJ nute or what?
hmmmmm that does sound unorthodox for this forum.
You sound doom and gloom - what happens if it gets worse? Death?

 

[Tact]

oh. oh. oh. oh. did tact just reiterate what i suggested? 1= ph. 2= rootbound... ...

I didn't read your post, I just said what I thought having the same genetics as OHC, with the same problems, after skimmimg through the 5 pages of posts and only reading her posts. I don't read everyones input. You are the man, and nailed it, before everyone! *cookie*

I agree then.

BTW I my plants did not look to rootbound when I checked the holes under the pots, but when they came out, it was a whole different story. It looks like a basket made out of roots. Soil change (FFOF) + some dolomite sweet-lime, and transplant to 5 gallon tubs, worth a shot? It seemed to cure my issues, which mirror yours, the leaves that were turning light-green/piss-yellow, are now regaining green color. How far into flowering are you?

 

[sundancer245]

Same soil for both.
Let me read up on the zinc def. So stick with this 12-55-6 for how long? Just for a flush and then onto a traditional 2 or 3 part MJ nute or what?
hmmmmm that does sound unorthodox for this forum.
You sound doom and gloom - what happens if it gets worse? Death?

you said "same soil for both" ? i take that to mean that your ww is in that MG seed starter soil? i also learned of that soil from hamster lewis and ive used it, but only for seedlings for the first few weeks, i doubt that soil would be very good for a plant that far into flower...im far from an expert but i have had some ph twist issues with plants started in that soil and that sorta looks to me like what i see in your auto's...like i said i am NO expert...one notch above newb hope you can get her back on track the buds look nice and sticky:hubba: sending lots of green mojo
your way and here...have a hit of AK in the bong :bong1:

 

[OldHippieChick]

Guys my head is spinning with all these "might be(s)".
I found this on zinc here: http://www.marijuana-seeds.net/Thanks/ThankYou.htm
The pic (scroll down...) matches the leaf on the top right. It says to use chelated zinc and I cant find any on line..... this article says death is the outcome of a zinc def. so I do feel quick response is required.... but you guys are confusing me with talk of - ph meters, repotting, soil, etc.... I'm feeling pulled in five directions. The link above says this is time critical and I need something called chelated zinc which I cant even locate on line except on tablet form for humans????? And seriously folks, after 3.5 months in a two gallon pot, aren't we wayyyyy past whatever mild nutes were in this MG seed starter? I mean, seems like the nutes I'm adding is what makes up the soil at this point? Am I saying that clearly?

Sundance - Regarding the AUTO, I seriously don't think the MG SS soil is responsible for the stunted growth or the warped leaf. I had a seed casing(?) that wouldn't drop off that sprout. I used tweezers to loosen it as she was popping her first two leafs and I feel it's damage caused by that. This is the second time I have seen similar leaf damage. The first time was when I caught a fly chewing on a 2-3 day old sprout. The plant grew twisted gnarled leaves in the beginning, even topped, always grew stunted and now at 3.5 months it stands 4.5" tall. I'm not going to assume it's the soil yet. But only because I can attribute outside incidents within the critical early days for both plants. And on Hamsters second auto grow, didn't he use the stuff all through the grow? I realize I'm now way past the 8-10 week auto life window but that's why I stand on the position that this soil and it's compounds are now comprised of what I have added to it. Aren't we really feeding the soil ? Someone here has a sig that says "Feed the soil, not the plant"??????


Irish I think you hit it with the zinc. I didn't mention and never was concerned about this but all the new growth along the stock are tiny mini leaves which are listed as a symptom of zinc def. Are you suggesting the 12-55-6 and molasses. Is this the black strap molasses that you buy in a grocery store? Is this 12-55-6 plant food to address the zinc def or to build up the soil in preperation for a nute program? Where do you stand on repotting in week 3.5 of flowering? And why the 7ph? I read back where you came to the board with a zinc def. The feedback from you was vague on what course of action you took for the recovery.... and much like now you got many diverse suggestions...... do you recall what worked? Was it what you are suggesting? Wow my head is spinning. I'm feeling like I'm locking up here with anxiety and this widow has taken over my auto grow. I need to get this resolved and move on. I'm freakin a bit..... someone talk me down.

And I'm confused about the ph talk. I know how to calibrate and my ph is within range? So what are y'all saying? What do you suggest I do? Throw out the ph pen? I'm sorry. If you could see my furrowed brow you would know that I'm just confused, not at all put out with anyone - so please don't be offended if I've expressed my confusion incorrectly. I'm just confused - beyond confused. My head has developed this uncontrollable back and forth bobble doll motion. I'm loosing sleep over this one. Calgon, take me away.
:48:

I'll go read up on molasses and coffee now.... coffee good.

Afterthought: But the article says (if I absorbed it pre coffee) that the zinc def is because of ph block????? shaking head again..... lordy lordy

 

[OldHippieChick]

Day 19 AWR
All talked out - so let's just look...... drama is draining, I don't recommend it.
:48:

 

[fruity86]

looking good OHC how big are ya pots? just started to germ 10 reg Russian rocket fuel only want seeds from them wot size pot would you recomend i was thinking about putting them all in 1 big pot and let them do there thing in a diffrent room away from my flower room
like i said looking good