Baffled! Seeking expert advise...

[Green Lantern]

Hey Green Lantern, it's good to meet you man. So far, everything sounds good.

You didn't mention one very important factor.

In the flood and drain system, how long is your flow cycle? How long is your drained cycle?

Also, I noticed that your plants are in individual containers within the flooding chamber. How large are those containers?

Is there any evidence of algae growth?

Hola POTUS, good to meet you as well...

Good point about flood and drain cycles, especially since I'm new to hydro.
I flood for 15 minutes. Initially the flooding was every 4 hours, but I cut it back to every 6 hours. Those containers are 6" square pots. The bright green pics where clones in 3.5 gal buckets in a flood and drain system in veg. on the same watering schedule. Everything else is in flowering right now.
No evidence of algae growth, but I'll look again.

 

[allgrownup]

How much air are you moving through there? i see no ducting or fans in any of your pics. I hope your getting a HUGE supply of fresh air into that attic. what else is in the attic? blown in insulation? those plants are not happy about something......


weird.


where is StoneyBud when you need him...eh?

 

[Green Lantern]

How much air are you moving through there? i see no ducting or fans in any of your pics. I hope your getting a HUGE supply of fresh air into that attic. what else is in the attic? blown in insulation? those plants are not happy about something......


weird.


where is StoneyBud when you need him...eh?

Yeah, tell me about it. The weird thing to me is how in the past at another house, I never had problems, and the attic in that place was a mess... the growroom wasn't insulated, used a cheap bathroom exhaust fan, and got too hot (100F). I used rapid grow when I could find it and miracle grow when I couldn't. The plants got water stressed now and again and I had trouble keeping the lights high enough as the plants were growing so fast and healthy.
Now I go to sooooo much more trouble and can't seem to get this figured out

Anyway... I just added a new fan to each of the intake ducts and reduced the exhaust fan in the flowering room. Now the rooms aren't in a negative pressure situation, so hopefully this will help. If negative pressure is bad for plants, then they should be happier than they were...

 

[POTUS]

Hola POTUS, good to meet you as well...

Good point about flood and drain cycles, especially since I'm new to hydro.
I flood for 15 minutes. Initially the flooding was every 4 hours, but I cut it back to every 6 hours. Those containers are 6" square pots. The bright green pics where clones in 3.5 gal buckets in a flood and drain system in veg. on the same watering schedule. Everything else is in flowering right now.
No evidence of algae growth, but I'll look again.

I use a one hour one, two hours off cycle. With ebb and flow, that's a good method. 6 hours between waterings is too much. WAY to much.

Your plants are starving to death.

I would immediately change it to a 1 hour on 2 hours off cycle. I've used that timing for 20+ years. It works great.

You should see a good change within a week.

 

[POTUS]

where is StoneyBud when you need him...eh?

This has come up a few times now. I guess I should make it clear that POTUS *is* Stoney Bud.

I decided for my own reasons to stop being a Mod. I changed my member name also.

Since Stoney Bud was also a fake name...I prefer to be called POTUS now.

Thanks, and sorry for the confusion.

 

[Dubbaman]

IMO man most everything sounds ok the only concern i have is that you said your using tap water. i did see that its a good pH/PPM for growing but tap water still does have other elements in it that are bad for MJ (chlorine). id say let that water sit out to air out for a day before you use it so this way the bad stuff can evaporate out of the water.

 

[Kupunakane]

Hey there,
Dubbaman is correct about the chlorine, most good folks have no idea what chlorine does to plants, and how well those same plants would look if they stopped, But there is another water treatment that water facilities use, that cannot be gotten rid of so easily. This is called chloramine, and the only way to deal with this stuff is chemically removing it.
Check with your local water company, and see what they are using, if it is chlorine, Then you can do what I used to do. I used a 55 gal. plastic drum with no lid on it, I would fill it, and then use an aquarium bubbler to break the surface tension allowing the water to off gas the chlorine. just my $0.02

smoke in peace
KingKahuuna

 

[Green Lantern]

I use a one hour one, two hours off cycle. With ebb and flow, that's a good method. 6 hours between waterings is too much. WAY to much.

Your plants are starving to death.

I would immediately change it to a 1 hour on 2 hours off cycle. I've used that timing for 20+ years. It works great.

You should see a good change within a week.

Ok, just got home from work.

Wow, 1 hour on and 2 hours off?
Considering I have no experience in hydro compared to your 20+ years...
I'll definately take your word for it. 20 years in hydro? Damn, that's some experience.

I've had a hard time finding any info about timing cycles. I have read, however, that one shouldn't flood for more than 1/2 hour at a time, and most growers flood 4-12 times/day. That's about all I've had to go on. Only now have I been checking on the grow forums (after I set up a proxie server).

With this timing cycle, is this 24/7 or do you flood less often when the lights are out. I've only heard that the plants really don't need the nutes but do like the fresh oxygen that a flood and drain provides.

 

[Green Lantern]

IMO man most everything sounds ok the only concern i have is that you said your using tap water. i did see that its a good pH/PPM for growing but tap water still does have other elements in it that are bad for MJ (chlorine). id say let that water sit out to air out for a day before you use it so this way the bad stuff can evaporate out of the water.

Good point, but I will mention two things...
1. Even if the 60pmm TDS in the tap water was all sodium cloride (which I'm sure it isn't), that's still less than 1/2 of what Cervantes says is safe for mj in the grow bible.
2. I've always used tap water in past years and never had a problem... fast, healthy growth w/ big yields.

I know it's not the best thing, but again, at 60 ppm, that can't be what is giving me so much troubble, so I will address that later with a RO system in a month or two.

 

[Green Lantern]

I use a one hour one, two hours off cycle. With ebb and flow, that's a good method. 6 hours between waterings is too much. WAY to much.

Your plants are starving to death...

Obviously I'm in need of some hydro tips...

However... this only applies to the clones in hydro.

My moms aren't starving, but they have the same problem

 

[POTUS]

Ok, just got home from work.

Wow, 1 hour on and 2 hours off?
Considering I have no experience in hydro compared to your 20+ years...
I'll definately take your word for it. 20 years in hydro? Damn, that's some experience.

I've had a hard time finding any info about timing cycles. I have read, however, that one shouldn't flood for more than 1/2 hour at a time, and most growers flood 4-12 times/day. That's about all I've had to go on. Only now have I been checking on the grow forums (after I set up a proxie server).

With this timing cycle, is this 24/7 or do you flood less often when the lights are out. I've only heard that the plants really don't need the nutes but do like the fresh oxygen that a flood and drain provides.

All totaled, I have almost 45 years of growing with about 25 of it growing exclusively in Hydroponics.

If you get 50 people together in a room that have been using Hydroponics for 10+ years each, you'll get 51 different methods of doing so.

As I said, in my own units, I use a hour on, two hours off cycle, 24/7.

I average a little over a pound of cured, awesome weed from each crop in a 3.5 x 5.5 area using 4 grow chambers.

My method seriously works...

Of course, "they all say that". hehe

Try mine for a week and watch your plants come back alive and go crazy.

Also, do you have "root holes" all the way around each of your individual pots in the hydro? I prefer to not use the individual pots. They detract from root growth and slow the plant down. I fill the entire grow tub with Hydroton and plant each of the plants into that. Then I flood up to two inches below the top of the Hydroton so algae doesn't grow.

Good luck to you man.

 

[Green Lantern]

Also, do you have "root holes" all the way around each of your individual pots in the hydro? I prefer to not use the individual pots. They detract from root growth and slow the plant down. I fill the entire grow tub with Hydroton and plant each of the plants into that. Then I flood up to two inches below the top of the Hydroton so algae doesn't grow.

Good luck to you man.

Thank you very, very much for your advise.
Yes, the pots do have "root holes"... I'd try your method of filling the entire grow tub up with the Hydroton, but then I couldn't move the plants from veg to flower (different rooms, of course). I'm using a 3x3 tray in veg and a 4x4 tray in flowering. I will be doing some experimentation once I have things relatively dialed in, so I may try that with a 2x3 tray that might fit through the doors.

 

[POTUS]

Thank you very, very much for your advise.
Yes, the pots do have "root holes"... I'd try your method of filling the entire grow tub up with the Hydroton, but then I couldn't move the plants from veg to flower (different rooms, of course). I'm using a 3x3 tray in veg and a 4x4 tray in flowering. I will be doing some experimentation once I have things relatively dialed in, so I may try that with a 2x3 tray that might fit through the doors.

Why not just change the lights and/or timing of the lights in the rooms? Either tray will work for both processes. If you leave the plants where they are and just change your lights and timing, the plants wouldn't have to be moved and wouldn't have that stress in their lives.

As for the flooding of the grow chambers, that part of Hydroponics is a known science with no doubt in it.

Plants in Hydroponics will grow without part of the "perfect" process, but they suffer for it. If you make everything as it should be, your plants will grow like crazy with no problems.

The entire root mass is capable of absorbing nutrients and water. Each root and every part of each root can do this. What this tells you is that if you supply water and nutes to each root, the plant will absorb and use them. As a result, the plant will grow to it's best possible growth.

You should fill the grow chambers until they are full just out of sight of light. This is to prevent algae growth. If water or water and nutrients become visible to light, algae will grow like crazy and whack out your entire system.

Your reservoir needs to be of sufficient size to allow you to completely flood your grow chambers to within two inches of the top. If it isn't, you need to up-size it.

No more than 1/3 of the total volume of your reservoir should remain in the reservoir when the grow chambers are full. This will prevent the nutrient solution from getting outdated and will also help aerate the water.

Good luck man. You should see a great improvement in your plants health very soon. Let me know.

Take care,

POTUS

 

[Green Lantern]

Why not just change the lights and/or timing of the lights in the rooms?

Because I have mothers in perpetual veg to take clones from.

 

[POTUS]

Because I have mothers in perpetual veg to take clones from.

I do that as well. However, I only use one room for vegging my crops and flowering them. In the other room, I have my clones rooting and my Host plants.

I grow my Host plants in soil. It grows them slower, and that's what I want. Otherwise, I end up throwing out a lot of cuttings.

I use a 250 watt Flo lighting system for my Host plants and a 150 watt HPS for my clones while rooting. Then I transplant them into the grow room for vegging. When they're 18 inches tall, I change my lighting to 12/12 and flower.

Why do you use two rooms for vegging and flowering your crops? Man, I get a pound out of mine on each crop. I'm down to one crop a year now. I can't smoke a pound a year.

 

[That crazy vancouver guy]

so make an extra chamber with cfl lighting for clonning and sustaining mothers in.

 

[Green Lantern]

I do that as well. However, I only use one room for vegging my crops and flowering them. In the other room, I have my clones rooting and my Host plants.

I grow my Host plants in soil. It grows them slower, and that's what I want. Otherwise, I end up throwing out a lot of cuttings.

I use a 250 watt Flo lighting system for my Host plants and a 150 watt HPS for my clones while rooting. Then I transplant them into the grow room for vegging. When they're 18 inches tall, I change my lighting to 12/12 and flower.

Why do you use two rooms for vegging and flowering your crops? Man, I get a pound out of mine on each crop. I'm down to one crop a year now. I can't smoke a pound a year.

Yeah, I'm going to have to pay much more attention to these forums for the great advise. In the past I only had one room and always wished for two for the flexability. I'm always trying new strains and methods, tinker with some breeding, etc... so the flexability of always having one room in veg and one in flower is why I chose this set up. It's never been about trying to get a huge yield, although between me, friends and family I need to supply approx. eight med users (myself included, I've got nerve damage from a C5-6 spinal cord injury, bad insomnia, and am OCPD... Thank God for this magical herb). That said, you guys have great ideas, and has got me thinking... I really like the idea of not using pots in the hydro tray and not moving the plants, so I'm going to work on getting to that. I'm in the middle of a ten day job right now, so my time is limited and can't really do anything about it right now (ten days straight, 10 hours/day, I'm at work as we speak) with other jobs comming up.The brain is a little fried, and not in a good way.

 

[Green Lantern]

so make an extra chamber with cfl lighting for clonning and sustaining mothers in.

hmmmm, yet another good idea....