Can "Religious Freedom" be a defense?

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
We're getting off topic but give me proof of the 5%. Hemp and marijuana would effect the following businesses and it's a short list cause I'm tired...

1.alkie
2.tobacco
3.healthcare
4.law enforcement (includes everyone in the legal system that needs to keep their job..lawyers, LEO, judges etc.)
5.pharma
6.criminal underground (and yes they have tendrils in Washington)
7.synthetics
8.oil
9.paper
10.cosmetics
11.textile industry
12.construction industry

and that's just a few

In the late 30's it was reported that hemp would be the first billion dollar industry in this country. Also most prisons have employees and some prisons do 'free' work for communities i.e hard labor, community service. If they let out all the non violent drug offenders tommorrow the money and amount of prisoners would be cut in half. It is estimated that MJ could take away from 80% of pharma sales etc. etc.

Not trying to discredit you but what kind of tax is going to cover that? What do they tell all the unemployed? IMO it would be catastrophic to all gov'ts and a ton of big business. Hemp is the greenest thing on our planet in my mind.
 
Bleek187 said:
Less than 5% - 52,370 inmates – are housed in private facilities of U.S. prisons

so ... how do you.... like that... =)

also not saying your wrong but I did a search and got so many different answers. Plus the gov't doesn't pay, well they do in the form of our tax dollars

look at this read the first paragraph and tell me if the word profit doesn't jump out at you it did to me.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prisons

They say 260 some prisons and almost 100,000 prisoners but I get different stats everywhere I look LOL. Also look who runs the prisons some pretty big companies, that throw billions a year at the feds to keep themoney coming in, in the form of "criminals". Marujauna and hemp are very dangerous to the big guys for us we will always be fighting an uphill battle and the taxing would have to be a huge amount.

It's all about the big bucks, we have the highest prison pop. in the world and only 15% or so of the world's population. Our legal/criminal system is a capitalist type it's gotta make money LOL. I always hear let's tax it and I just don't agree, also who says I am right it's JMO that's all.
 
snuggles said:
also not saying your wrong but I did a search and got so many different answers. Plus the gov't doesn't pay, well they do in the form of our tax dollars

look at this read the first paragraph and tell me if the word profit doesn't jump out at you it did to me.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prisons

They say 260 some prisons and almost 100,000 prisoners but I get different stats everywhere I look LOL. Also look who runs the prisons some pretty big companies, that throw billions a year at the feds to keep themoney coming in, in the form of "criminals". Marujauna and hemp are very dangerous to the big guys for us we will always be fighting an uphill battle and the taxing would have to be a huge amount.

It's all about the big bucks, we have the highest prison pop. in the world and only 15% or so of the world's population. Our legal/criminal system is a capitalist type it's gotta make money LOL. I always hear let's tax it and I just don't agree, also who says I am right it's JMO that's all.

Actually taxing cannabis will relieve all the burden and will have greater income in the form of industry, new product lines as well as tourism incomes. Breeding cannabis in fields is not such a hard job and requires very little amount of effort on the side of breeder, breeding hemp for recreational uses is also very cheap when you do it in a field though super quality of home bred cannabis can never be achieved.

On the long run, corporations will be damaged greatly and the people in power for the better part of 20th century will fall from power and they certainly do not want this to happen so... so... so... so... well... Who knows...
 
off topic is a good point... But canibus would not destroy the government. nor would it effect big biss such as tobacco, healthcare, law enforcement, ect... as with any bissness it would take away from someone elses profets yes.. but not in a way that would destroy them or have an effect on the government.. to say so is rediculous.. example... tobacco.. tobacco is going to make money regardless.. you dont stop smoking because you can get weed legaly.... if anything your high more often and therefor smoke more.. and textiles may take a hit yea.. but at the same time your gonna create another multi billion dollar industry... hemp is already used widely all over the world.. (yes even here in the US and my great state) as far as others... law enforcement?? kidding?? so if we dont have pot heads to bust anymore cops are gonna loose there jobs? we gonna fire half the judges? seriously? State funded and a must.. i dont think lawyers and judges and cops are gonna loose there jobs because weed is legal.. they did it with alcohol.. they could do it with canibus also.. but they never will..
 
I think you are missing the point, all those big businesses throw billions of dollars a year at the gov't. Plastics would be obsolete, and if you take away a large part of the MJ problem it will effect LEO, they need to turn profits too. I live in a commonwealth and we use money generated from crime (fines etc.) to fund our state gov't. Of course we use Hemp, we need to import it and it's marked up through the roof. Why? What would all the textile and synthetic companies do just roll over and die? What would insurance companies do if their profits went down, what would pharma do? Yes alcohol was illegal for a second and guess what it started? A crime wave...the mob. Plus more people drink than smoke, an estimated 80 million americans smoke, but if they had a better legal option many would change over to MJ. Also when MJ becomes legal alcohol is going to look worse in the people's eyes. And I'm telling you if stopped prosecuting MJ users it would drop revenues, are cops going to work for free? Where I live the crimes pay the police, commonwealth. Just look at what hemp could do in itself. IMO opinion the gov't would lose tons, maybe they would get back eventually but that's a big maybe IMO. As for tobacco and alcohol they both would be affected but I'll start another thread later tomorrow or if you want go ahead.

Like I said we are on the same side and I think disagreements are good, it shows passion on both sides and I'm sure we could all learn from each other. Good stuff too BTW. I think we should do a legalization thread, but from the perspective that we have been talking. The legal system is a business and so is the prison system. Oil is needed in synthetics, which hemp could replace and it's biodegradable. Also hemp oil in itself is a big big danger. Also tobacco would be affected otherwise they wouldn't be one of the big Drug War donors. Imagine if MJ is legal and all the sudden the truth comes out, MJ is not deadly like we have been told...people will want a crack down on tobacco again. i.e. if tobacco kills say 100k a year and cannabios none they no longer have a leg to stand on it will look very bad for them. And alkie is afraid people will jump ship, and they will cause it's safe and NOW legal.

Also I think we are missing two very important things...control and power.
 
yeah but you make some what of a point but not all the money is kept with the drugs. remember criminals are smart. they don't keep drugs with the loot. the money that is usually caught is more then likely money they made from a sale(s). the ghettos you won't see money stored or being counted in the same house that's dealing. they keep there money separate. same goes with these big bust else wear. what were seeing is only the icing on the cake. Also i don't see companies hurting all that bad. they will adapt and you'll be able to buy an L at the store next to your favorite cigar/cig. it will be common place if ever legalized. Also the pharmaceutical companies would adapt also cause they would want to separate the Cannabinoids
in the marijuana to create lotions or what have you. like any business they will adapt or be lost and since they make billions they will have no problem adapting. right now as it stands the biggest proponent of this mess is the Gov. and no one else. some states are ahead of the game and we need to start going to other states and spread the brotherly love and get these stupid laws changed.
 
tobacco is here to stay.. if "the people" want to crack down on it... 2 bad.. they donate money to the government and every party to get in bed with them not because they know if weed was legal they would go broke.. they wouldnt...

i donno how they come up with the numbers that say more people drink than smoke but i can tell you this.. everybody smokes weed... its rediculous how many people actualy do it.. its everywhere.. and people are paying 500 bucks an ounce... i paid 35 bucks for a half a gal of everclear the other night.. 190 proof... but a 8th of an ounce of weed is 50 bucks? U do realize that this would probably become one of the most profitable businesses in the US.... and drug war would in no way decline.. it would actualy be more effective.. now insted of cops waisting time and money to bust some guy growing weed, maby they can go get a coke dealer or bust tha guy who sells my friend crack... wouldnt this be better than taken a dangerous 19 year old pothead off the streets?

regardless of what who beleaves here... the fact still remains that weed will prolly never be legal for 029384092384099 reasons.. the plant was outlawd for control reasons... they used it as a scapegoat to get other things they wanted done done.. for the government to overturn this law that has been establishd for so long now is just never gonna happen.. so we can prolly stop talkn about it now =)

IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO and...... IMO
 
LowRider said:
Also the pharmaceutical companies would adapt also cause they would want to separate the Cannabinoids
in the marijuana to create lotions or what have you. like any business they will adapt or be lost and since they make billions they will have no problem adapting.

They are already adapting, look at all the cannabinoid studies over the last 8 years and the numbers are going up, their adaptation has already started and this is another reason why it will stay illegal and it's also my biggest fear...it will get worse, it has been for years. They are going to keep it illegal, they will have synthsized our wonderful plant. You can't patent a plant but you can synthesize it and have it all for yourself, Pharma is a juggernaut with so much money. They don't share now why would they in the future. I honestly believe that Pharma will be given forst dibs and I would be shocked if they haven't already started developing their medicine. Look at all the stuff they have already that uses cannabinoid science, but it's a pill. My biggest fear has always been that...they get first dibs in my mind and they are running with it their new wonder drugs will not be our plant. Also I know what you are saying about seizures and LEO, they do seize property left and right and that's just a drop in the bucket. Look at a business any business and answer me this, if it were to lose 5 to 10% of it's customers it would have to lay off people, works the same in the legal world, and not too mention there are commonwealths like my state that rely on that money otherwise me and every other PA resident will be paying higher taxes, you think any non smokers wanna pay more cause we legaized what they consider satan NO WAY.

Just do me a favor guys and look at Hemp and you will see who and what it will affect? Hemp is more durable, biodegradeable, requires no fertilizer, healthy, grows quick, had few disease problems, requires minimal effort, etc. But we are a cotton, synthetic world. They will do anything to protect themselves and just look at the money the big businesses throw at anti marijuana. Heck even National Geographic is a huge contributor, why? Umm paper, they own some paper mills LOL. If you look hard enough you will see who is throwing the money at the war and how much.

I agree though if someone big was smart enough they would start to get ready to convert to hemp, t's a big chance but if it works out they would be the new gods in this world I guarantee it. It's the most dangerous plant in the world, just look at the money thrown at it, THEY FEAR IT just like we fear LEO LOL.

Also you want Phillip Morris growing MJ, using the same fertilizer they use for cigs? Radioactive phosphorous? LOL. Hemp would put the american farmer in power, they don't want that. Billionaires want to remain billionaires and will do anything to keep it that way anything, including whole sale selling out of his fellow man. Plus the war on MJ is a constant money maker, it's a stable money maker. it's the easiest drug to detect and the most used behind cigs and alcohol, and IMO the most safe and that will come out if it's legalized. It's a war of fear and intimidation, control and power and the almighty dollar. Back like 5 years ago it would have hurt local law enforcement to the tune of 16 billion dollars add another 18 billion and that's just the tip of the iceburg in the legal world and that was five years ago that's 30 billion dollars divde that by about 50 million users (which is high) and then on top of that add in every other industry that has to change or be destroyed, guys we're talking tons and tons of money are we going to pay for it? Who is? The whole world is turning green but where is our hemp? Plus they can't control a plant and that is another problem, it's impossible. It would be a major overhaul to our system, you and I want that but does the occasional or anti MJ person? Do they wanna pay for it? heck no. Plus I don't know about you but why pay when you can grow? It's too risky for them IMO.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26823

LOL I was writing while you were posting here's the new thread, no reason to stop many people can learn from it even you and I...and yes tobacco is here to stay but they will be scrutinized again. 40% of our population is alcoholic and that's just alcoholic not aw drinker. Alcohol is America's drug of choice by a mile, but probably cause it's legal and ACCEPTED MJ is not maybe to me and you but to most nope. LOL have a good night guys, nice to meet you BTW bleek187, you make many good points and I do agree with some, anyways I put up a new link as we destrpyed this poor thread...I talk too much LOL.
 
Wow talk about religious freedom:holysheep:
 
Anyway...

Excellent exponation snuggles; I concur with your hypothesies. Money is the fuel of the political/federal machine and we of the common cloth are but indentured servants subsiding on the meager pittance allotted to us by it/them. Hemp could be the agricultural goldmine that would save the planet (bio-fuel) and through its many applications be an economic boon to our economy, but that would (probably) require a complete re-structuring of our government to accomplish.

Isn't it funny that we are paying taxes and fees for our own "inalienable rights"? At one point I did some research on establishing my personal sovereignty from the United States: thus revoking my own citizen status (within the US and all US owned territories) and all of the supposed "privileges" that go with it. Just remember that "privileges" can be taken away, but "rights" are established by Natural Law; such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (HOWEVER we may choose to define that for ourselves) and are ours because of our very existence as human beings. In fact, the only law of Natural Law is that your rights under Natural Law shall not violate the rights of another as established under Natural Law. The insanity of slavery in the US was condoned because it was determined that the Africans were "savages" (i.e. less than human) and thus not afforded the protection of inalienable rights.

We surrender our rights of Natural Law to the United States in exchange for the governments agreement to provide protection from any person, place or thing that wishes to violate your person, place or thing. This exchange occurs in the form of being ascribed the label of "citizen". With the self proclamation that you are a "citizen" of the United States you hereby agree to the terms and conditions (expressed and implied) of the now binding social contract between you and the federal government that establishes that you are basically incapable of taking care of yourself or making any rational, personal judgements, and that you allow the government to provide for you and to make all of the rational decisions for you.

And with that your rights have been bought before you even knew you sold them...

That's it - I'm going to bed! LOL I was attempting to expound on your presentation that there are powerful forces moving behind the scenes affecting our lives (and none of them have our best interest in mind) but I guess I boondoggled!
 
hey dad... id like to start a thread and go into more detail about this..

"establishing my personal sovereignty from the United States: thus revoking my own citizen status (within the US and all US owned territories) and all of the supposed "privileges" that go with it"

this is very interesting to me as i have had some exposure to this in the past but never got much info on it.. so let me explain what happend

a few years back i meet a guy who pitched this idea to me. He seamd to be a well rounded person with a good head on his neck lol... He lived in a nice part of town and owned a very nice house, a few nice cars, and had a normal family, wife and children.. he started to tell me about this personal sovereignty idea.. he gave me some things to read and some web sites to visit... The main thing that sucked me in was when he told me that by doing this you will get rid of any debt you have built up.. Now, as this was years ago i can not recall the exact details but i remember it sounded great.. So i checked into the web sites he gave me and read some crazy stuff.. But as i learnd more and more about this i came across lots of information about how it is a scam.. one of the biggest turnoffs for me was when i found out the guy who did the oklahoma city bombing was into this.. kinda made me think it might be a bad idea.. i also read alot of things that were very putoffish, if that is a word, about this idea... So that is where i stoped looking into it.. But i would like to get more info about it along with some personal opinions.
 
Bleek187 said:
i also read alot of things that were very putoffish, if that is a word, about this idea... So that is where i stoped looking into it.. But i would like to get more info about it along with some personal opinions.

I too read some things that would be a bit difficult in the modern world (like having to pay for everything with pure silver or gold) but I read alot that made so much sense. Like the part I just put up about relinquishing our rights - and that we can regain our rights by renouncing our citizenship, because the defense is that our rights were relinquished by proxy through our parents beforewe had the option to choose whether or not we wanted to relinquish them ourselves.

You would not have any debt. There would be no taxes. In the era of the Patriot Act, I would want to research this more thoroughly before proceeding. Rather than being someone who wants to protect and preserve their inalienable rights, one could be perceived as a threat and enemy to the regime and be booked a room at the Hotel Leavenworth...

Don't let anyone tell you you're being paranoid - "the beast" is out of control.
 
i just watched a program on the history channel. according to them mj was first banned in the 30's the real reason behind it was the borders.. the saw mj a something our neigbors to the south were bringing to the U.S. and inorder to try to keep them on their side of the fence.. it was called the Maraijuana stamp act. this is exactly what the history channel said friday morning. the stamp act was over turned soon after. but i can't remember all of it yet i gotta smoke first.

sounds like this is a touchy issue for some people. I don't think we should get all worked up over it.. its aginst the law.. no matter how angry we get or frustrated nothing you say to anyone on here is gonna help.. this is a friendly place filled with like minded people.. even if we don't see eye to eye we share a common ground.. our love of the plant.. If your angry about the laws we live with contact your congress man or even better take a trip to your state capital building and express your anger there. I don't think getting upset with each other will ever help our cause. JMO
 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I can't find anywhere where these cases were overturned, but I'm still checking. In any case, you gotta love the Ninth Circuit![/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ninth Circuit Recognizes Religious Use of Marijuana[/FONT]

Share This Page


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]May 31, 2002 - Honolulu, HI, USA

Honolulu, HI: A three-judge panel for the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled this week to limit federal prosecutions of Rastafarians who use marijuana for sacramental purposes on federal property or in U.S. territories. The judges determined that protections granted by a 1993 federal religious-freedom law permits the personal use and possession of marijuana - but not the sale or importation of marijuana - for religious purposes.
Attorney Graham Boyd of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) Drug Litigation Project, who argued the case, disputes that distinction. "It's the equivalent to saying wine is a necessary sacrament for some Christians but you have to grow your own grapes," he said. He intends to seek a review by the full appellate court, sitting en banc.
The case arose from Benny Toves Guerrero's criminal prosecution in Guam for the alleged importation of five ounces of marijuana and ten grams of marijuana seeds. Guerrero asked the trial court to dismiss the indictment, claiming that the criminal statutes violated his right to freely exercise his religion under the Organic Act of Guam and under the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). The trial court agreed, as did the Guam Supreme Court. The Ninth Circuit reviewed the Guam Supreme Court's finding that the federal territory's controlled substance statute substantially burdened Guerrero's right to freely exercise his religion.
The decision applies to federal lands in nine western states and American territories.
For more information, please contact Donna Shea, NORML Foundation Legal Director, at (202) 483-8751.
[/FONT]

9th Circuit Court of Appeals Rules Religion May Be Defense to Marijuana Possession

IN THE COURTS

March 1996


The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled on February 2 that under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993, Rastafarian defendants should be allowed to show that they use marijuana for bona fide religious reasons in their defense against charges of possession of marijuana (U.S. v. Bauer, No. 94-30073, 96 C.D.O.S. 756, 1996WL42240 (9th Cir. 1996); http://www.law.vill.edu/Fed-Ct/Circuit/9th/opinions/9430073.htm; Reynolds Holding, "Rastafarian Pot Could Be Legal," San Francisco Chronicle, February 3, 1996, p. A14; "Marijuana For Religious Reasons," Washington Post, February 5, 1996, p. A10; Associated Press, "Court: Rastafarians Can Hold Marijuana," Chicago Tribune, February 4, 1996, p. 9).
Acting on two tips, police initiated an investigation of marijuana trafficking from Mexico to Billings, Montana. As a result of the investigation, 26 people were indicted in November 1992 on a number of charges, including conspiracy to manufacture and distribute marijuana, money laundering, use of firearms in relation to drug trafficking, and possession with intent to distribute marijuana.
Three of the defendants, Calvin Treiber, Dawn Meeks, and Lexi Bauer, appealed on the grounds that they possessed the marijuana in the course of practicing their religion, Rastafarianism. The Court of Appeals found that Rastafarianism is a recognized religion that considers marijuana a sacrament.
In 1993, Meeks had requested the district court to provide funds for expert testimony on the use of marijuana in Rastafarianism. The district court denied that motion and granted a government motion to prevent any religious defense to the charges. The defendants' trial started on October 3, 1993. On November 17, 1993, the defendants notified the court that President Clinton had signed the Religious Freedom Restoration Act on November 16, 1993. The Act declares that "governments should not substantially burden religious exercise without compelling justification," i.e. government interest. Further, the Act allows for persons who find that a law does "substantially burden" their free exercise of religion to present evidence of such at trial (P.L. 103-141; 42 U.S.C. 2000bb-1). The district court refused to reconsider its ruling on the government's motion.
Post-conviction, the defendants argued that laws regulating marijuana greatly interfere with the ability of Rastafarians to practice their religion. The district court ruled that "the government has an overriding interest in regulating marijuana." The court quoted a 1967 Fifth Circuit decision: "It would be difficult to imagine the harm which would result if the criminal statutes against marihuana were nullified as to those who claim the right to possess and traffick in this drug for religious purposes. For all practical purposes the anti-marihuana laws would be meaningless, and enforcement impossible" (Leary v. U.S., 383 F.2d 851 (5th Cir. 1967),rev'd on other grounds, 395 U.S. 6 (1969)).
The Court of Appeals three judge panel was unanimous that the defendants should have been allowed to present evidence of their religious use of marijuana at trial. Judge John T. Noonan, Jr., writing for the court, found that under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, the government would be required to show that the burdens on the defendants' religion were in the course of furthering the government's interest and that the laws were the "least restrictive means of furthering that compelling government interest." While the defendants may use the religious argument in their defense of simple possession charges, Noonan wrote that the same argument cannot be applied to other charges of conspiracy to distribute, possession with intent to distribute, and money laundering. "Nothing before us suggests that Rastafarianism would require this conduct," he wrote.
Noonan ordered that the defendants be retried on the simple possession charges. At such trial, Noonan wrote, the government can challenge whether the defendants are Rastafarians. "It is not enough in order to enjoy the protections of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act to claim the name of a religion as a protective cloak," Noonan wrote. "Neither the government nor the court has to accept the defendants' mere say-so."
The defendants appealed on a number of other grounds, including inappropriate peremptory challenges to the jury by the prosecution, misleading jury instructions, and selective prosecution. The Court of Appeals found no grounds for any of these arguments.
 
slowmo77 said:
sounds like this is a touchy issue for some people. I don't think we should get all worked up over it.. its aginst the law.. no matter how angry we get or frustrated nothing you say to anyone on here is gonna help.. this is a friendly place filled with like minded people.. even if we don't see eye to eye we share a common ground.. our love of the plant.. If your angry about the laws we live with contact your congress man or even better take a trip to your state capital building and express your anger there. I don't think getting upset with each other will ever help our cause. JMO

Interesting... :huh: I don't see anything confrontational or "touchy" about this - just people sharing ideas and perspectives and no one is angry or bitter in the least. I think self expression was actually the common ground we shared that began this insightful discussion in the first place and I am more enlightened because of it.

Thank you to all who posted. :)
 
I agree I even Pmed bleek and introduced myself, we all get along great. Yes MO I know it's the law, I am verhactive in the legalization effort too. I don't want to not be an Anerican but you best believe I will be looking into maybe moving somewhere safer and more to my tastes...yes I'm talking about leaving this country when I can. I can't live here anymore, I take the whole war personally and I have had enough...sounds like I'm a bad guy but if I can't be a hermit and smoke the occasional joint on my own time in my own house then I have to leave...I can't imagine 20 years from now. Also this whole country was supposedly started to give freedoms, especially of religion. If you are not hurting anyone I could care less what your religion is, honestly. Too me religion is just another tool used to manipulate people, it's a shame too cause you should be able to practice your beliefs if they are your beliefs. I believe MJ isn't just some trivial drug it's an amazing plant it really is IMO and it's very well rounded and would benefit many especially our poor farmers, these men and women work so hard for nothing, they desrve some say, they feed us and get paid squat. It's a very painful thing for me to watch, I come from a family of Marines and I take pride in that and I take pride in the fact that I am an American but what is America really? What we were taught or what we see everyday, or rather experience? Greatest country in the world and we are run by business just like everyone else.
 
"religion is just another tool used to manipulate people"

This i could talk about for months straght lol... i couldnt agree with you more on this subject.. as far as religion i have done my homework on this for the past 8 years or so and i just cant beleave anyone falls for it.. the history of religion pretty much proves that it is just used to control the masses.. it is for control and power and it works better than anything ever has.. Dont get me wrong, im not saying there is no god.. only that religion is made up.. Its a scam that has been copied and changed to fit the likings of the ones in control.. Unbleaveable to me that people actualy live there lives by a set of rules given to them from there religion.. And the reason most do it is fear of going to hell.. Control the people by keeping them in fear.. Perfect scam.. Also there are religions that predate jewdeisum.. how?

I know this is compleetly off topic but thats what im good for =)
and only opinion so plz dont bash me about this.. thanks
 
this is my last post in here. But companies will adapt plan and simple. it will not put people out of work. the clothing industry will not loose out. cause the farmers will dictate what crop they use whether its hemp or cotton. they will keep the same pickers/workers. Pharmaceutical companies will just develop more drugs or cosmetics from it. police will never be hurt. People will always want police around. in alot of places we don't have enough. it would actually free them up on more serious crimes. lets face it, more than one head is better than 1 head. gas companies won't be hurt, there probably already aware of the plant, they don't just study things in the US. i can keep giving examples why these companies and many others won't loose out on anything. companies keep billions of dollars in reserves for research and other situations. if a company can't adapt they loose. that's why technology moves so quick (it doesn't double about every two years for no reason). is there big business that really want this plant extinct? Maybe but in today's world they have to adapt. A good example of why a business fails is K-mart (don't laugh listen). You ask well there still around and got bought out by Sears and went bankrupt. You know the main reason they didn't adapt to the market around them. other stores like Target, Walmart just to name some adapted by getting new products in. K-mart never did that. They kept the same product lines forever. they didn't try to get other product lines in there stores. Adaptions in today's market is not a problem with today's business in 95% of the cases. if companies don't create new products they don't make money. they will adapt. So please stop with that nonsense. Learn some economics.
 
Hallelujah, Praises and AMEN to you Brother snuggles and Brother Bleek! (lol)

I absolutely relish a good, intelligent conversation (and every once in a while they even let me listen in on one!) :) And Bleek - "kudos" to you for a great "off topic-topic"!

It would seem that the old religions of the Pre-Judaic era would be founded in the Shamanic and (later) Pagan/Druidic ceremonial rites of the various nomadic tribes that wandered the earth some 5000 - 8000 years ago. I'm in agreement with the theory that hypothesizes that these early peoples developed certain psycho-social constructs that allowed them to feel less vulnerable in the umpredictable environments of their time. These ceremonies were actually petitions for assistance from whatever caused things to happen in his environment that he (early man) could not (i.e. storms, childbirth, good hunting, etc). As we began to form communities clusters of people would believe in and perform the same ceremonies. The problems came when they began to establish "jobs" where people were assigned to assist within the community in the manner in which they could best; which meant that certain people were chosen to perform these ceremonies based on the perception that they were successful in appeasing "the powers that be" and creating the desired outcome. These primitive religious figureheads were revered and coveted, and would rise in power right along side the tribal leaders that relied on their guidance and protective services as they clashed with other tribes over hunting and camping grounds. The community showed appreciation to the tribal leaders and religious figureheads who "took care of them" by showering them lavishly with the best of what was available and before you knew it religion and government were cozy bedfellows. One establishment could use the other to manipulate the common people and pursue their particular agendas at any cost and nothing has changed about that to this day.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top