Mycorrhizae - anyone use this before?

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ta2dguy

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i have posted this in a couple spots in the forum cuz i wasnt sure where to put it.

i am wondering if anyone here has used mycorrhizae before. i am going to pick some up today to give it a try and was just wondering if anyone has used it or knows someone who has. thanks for your time. happy growing.
 
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Myco is used very prolifically. In fact 90% of plants on earth interact with fungus to provide nutreints. Under an organic schedule, Myco will help work wonders for you. Try it out for sure. What company are you looking at?
 
great white mycorrhizae is the name brand and it can be used in soil/soilless/hydro/aero/dwc and any other kind you can think of. i may have to order it in if i cant find it near me but i think this is gonna be fun. from everything i have read on the subject it should increase yield by an impressive amount. i am an experimentor??er? to the core and cant wait to get my hands on this stuff.
 
There are several different products out there by the various companies. Do a search, you will see.
 
hi there LF, thanks for replying. i have done a fair bit of research into this stuff, enough to introduce it to my ladies;) , i was just wondering if i could find some actual personal experience rather than just the studies i have seen. dont get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the info. that i have found,it is what has sold me on trying it out, i am just looking for some personal experiences with it from others until i have my own experience with it. i appreciate your help.
 
Great White is great stuff. You'll find solid results. What nute's are u using?
 
thanks for stopping in umbra. first off i guess, is there a noticeable difference in the yield from a plant as well as a noticeable diff. in root structure compared to a non inoculated plant??? that is if you have done any experiments or anything like it. i am going to be using it in hydro and i am going to do a few tests of my own.
 
hey jmans, i am using Dutch Nutrient Formula 2 part and i add some calmax as well. sounds like you know a bit about this stuff?
 
ta2dguy,

I'm very familiar with micrbial life. I'm currently doing some Myco tests with various compnies. Great White being one. I'm not far enough into the cycle to determine which product I find superior, I do know you should stay away from Earth Nectar/Earth Ambrosia. (I'm normally never even mention companies that don't benefit my grows but EA/EN turned a plant completely yellow over night 2 days ago w/ normal application rates)

Myco is a must have growing under certain conditions imo. Fungus is relatively tough stuff when compared to bacteria for example. That means even under non-organic feeding schedules it can benefit somewhat.

I have little experience with DNF but believe they have both organic and synthetic options. Which one do you use?
 
ta2dguy said:
thanks for stopping in umbra. first off i guess, is there a noticeable difference in the yield from a plant as well as a noticeable diff. in root structure compared to a non inoculated plant??? that is if you have done any experiments or anything like it. i am going to be using it in hydro and i am going to do a few tests of my own.

I'm organic soil so my needs are different than yours. But I have definitely seen a difference. I grew hydro for 15 years. I'll never go back.
 
j mans,the solution i use is a synthetic/chemical solution not organic

umbra, 15 years and never go back:eek: :holysheep: . i am interested in hearing more as to why the change after so long. i started in dirt over 20 years ago but quickly turned to hydro, which was now almost 20 years ago(on and off, mostly on :) ) i cannot imagine going back to soil but i do know alot more now than i did 22 years ago. tell me more while we :48:
 
ta2dguy, Although some benefit will be seen as Myco is specifically good at transfering mineral nutreints it's important to understand that while synthetic fertilizers will not kill Myco completely they will inhibit it's growth preventing prolific populations.

If you had a thriving Microbial environment and add sythetic nutreints you essentially kill off portions of the soil food web. Bacteria for example will suffer. This throws the balance out of wack. pH and absorption become less predictable. Fungus is a survivor and frequently can maintain itself in this scenerio (some what). It will not however, grow in population. The bacteria in Great White stands little chance at all with your nutreints.

I'm all for experimentation......and highly suggest you do. IMO however, when applying synthetic nutreints you should approach the meduim as if soil life is irrelavent. Myco may indeed help, but be prepared to see only minor improvements. The synthetic/chemical applications and the Living Myco may have conflicts.
 
jmansweed said:
ta2dguy, Although some benefit will be seen as Myco is specifically good at tranfering mineral nutreints it's important to inderstand that while synthetic fertilizers will not kill Myco completely they will inhibit it's growth preventing prolific populations.

If you had a thriving Microbial environment and add sythetic nutreints you essentially kill off portions of the soil food web. Bacteria for example will suffer. This throws the balance out of wack. pH and absorption become less predictable. Fungus is a survivor and frequently can maintain itself in this scenerio (some what). It will not however, grow in population. The bacteria in Great White stands little chance at all with your nutreints.

I'm all for experimentation......and highly suggest you do. IMO however, when applying synthetic nutreints you should approach the meduim as if soil life is irrelavent. Myco may indeed help, but be prepared to see only minor improvements. The synthetic/chemical applications and the Living Myco may have conflicts.


This is exactly why I have not messed with it much...when I try my hand at 100% organic I will use some of this stuff, but for the time being until I make the switch I didn't think my plants would benefit from it too much. There is another microbe that I just read about I meant to ask you 2 (Umbra, and Jman) about in a recent Max Yeild Magazine. The magazine is in my truck ATM, so I will post about it later. Nothing I'm concerned with now, but when I run out of my chem nutes, it is something I'm interested in. I will definately be going organic within the next 2 cycles. I need more research, and to use up my old stock of nutes.
 
hey there LF and jman, i stole this little Q+A from Urban Garden magazine. it helped me understand a bit more. there is alot more to the article but this answered alot of questions for me.

Q. I already use Trichoderma. Are mycorrhizal fungi any different?
Both are beneficial fungi found naturally in soil. Trichoderma are more for cycling nutrients in the soil and providing protection against soil pests (but you will seldom find it labeled as a pest control) while mycorrhizal fungi help more with nutrient and water uptake and increased root growth. Both combined will promote a very healthy root system overall.The two work together well. Trichoderma help make nutrients soluble. Mycorrhizal fungi can actually take the nutrients up and translocate them into the plant.
Q. How do I successfully introduce and propagate mycorrhizal fungi in my hydroponic garden?
Mycorrhizal fungi can be mixed directly with soil-less media or added to the nutrient solution directly just like any regular powder supplement. There is a myth that you cannot use mycorrhizal fungi with synthetic / mineral-based nutrients, but this is not true. Mycorrhizal fungi can be used with soil, hydroponics and cuttings. The key benefits in hydroponics are extended root systems (which naturally lead to an increase in yield), not to mention protection against root zone pests and diseases. Imagine miles of mycorrhizae hyphae exploring the nutrient resources. Mycorrhizal fungi cause roots to branch and form more fine feeder roots that can go after nutrients and minerals.
Q. Should I feed mycorrhizae carbs? (e.g. molasses?)
Molasses and other carbs are good for feeding bacteria and other types of fungi. But you don’t need to feed the mycorrhizae. That’s missing the point. The plant feeds them! It’s the exudates from the plant roots that cause the mycorrhizal propagules to germinate. (There are synthetic compounds that cause the mycorrhizae to germinate but they are unnatural, expensive and not commonly available.) You are better off adding products which contain humic acids (organic growers can use high quality organic inputs such as North Atlantic sea kelp) to promote more root exudates (food for the mycorrhizae).
Q. What hydroponic growth media do mycorrhizae prefer?
Mycorrhizal fungi can create mycelial networks in soil, coco coir, rockwool and many other inert growth media. They can even survive in a totally aqueous environment, as long as it is properly aerated, but they will not replicate. Mycorrhizae will grow and increase in biomass only once they are attached to a plant root.
Q. What about mycorrhizal fungi and high phosphorous levels?
Mycorrhizae fungi spores ‘sleep’ while levels of phosphorus are high (above 70ppm). They only awaken when levels drop lower than this. This is another reason to establish your mycorrhizae as early on in the plant’s development cycle as possible.
Q. What conditions do mycorrhizal fungi prefer?
Temperature: around 68-73°F is ideal but mycorrhizae can also help your plants tolerate occasional temp extremes.
Moisture: mycorrhizal fungi like to have a good air/water mix to thrive. Too moist or too dry is not ideal. Once again, they will help the plant tolerate any extremes that occur.
pH: it depends on the mycorrhizae species but generally they thrive in 5.5-7.5. Some can tolerate acidic conditions better than others while some like alkaline better than others. Look for products that are made from a blend of different species in order to create a healthy mycorrhizae population that will thrive in varying pH conditions.
Q. What conditions should be avoided?
Very high temperatures. (135- 140°F will definitely start killing them off but then, at those temperatures, the happiness of your fungi is the least of your problems!) The less chlorine your water contains, the better for both fungi and plants too. However, typical levels of chlorine from municipal supplies should not cause a problem.
Q. When should I start using mycorrhizal fungi?
As soon as possible! It takes less mycorrhizae to colonize a juvenile plant than a larger one. Commercial growers have negated the cost of mycorrhizal fungi with their increased seed germination rates. It takes a couple of weeks to form on the roots after the first inoculation so get the process started right at the seedling / cutting stage. The trick is to introduce the mycorrhizal fungi spores as early as possible to give them time to establish themselves. This is particularly important if you are growing short-cycle plants.
Q. Do mycorrhizal fungi need to be reintroduced on a regular basis? Do I need to add it more frequently than once with every nutrient change?
Best performance is achieved with numerous applications throughout the growth cycle. You can’t really overdo mycorrhizae. If there are more roots producing more exudates it will probably help to add more mycorrhizae. But don’t bother any later than 2-3 weeks before harvest. It’s a waste of time. Your mycelial network should already be established. It won’t do any harm to keep using it (and often the instructions on the mycorrhizae product will encourage you to!), but you’re just wasting your money! Adding it with every nutrient change won’t do any harm either. It’s just a question of minimizing waste. A good tip is to mix the fungi in a one gallon jug to get it nicely diluted, then pour it into your nutrient solution. Otherwise the powder can sit at the bottom of the res. The white powder you sometimes see at the bottom of your res is just the carrying agent of the spores, not the spores themselves.
Q. What mycorrhizae products can I find in my local grow store?
You’d best ask down at your store! You’ll most likely find a few different brands. The products usually come as a jar of white powder – this is a ‘carrying agent’ for the spores. If you want to compare products, look for the number of mycorrhizal species per pound and the diversity of species. Oh, and the price!
Q. Ok, but how do I actually use mycorrhizal fungi to benefit my plants?
Mycorrhizal application is easy and requires no special equipment. The goal is to create physical contact between the mycorrhizal inoculant and the plant root. Mycorrhizal inoculant can be sprinkled onto roots during transplanting, worked into seed beds, blended into loose growth media, “watered in” via existing irrigation systems, added directly to the nutrient solution, applied as a root dip gel or even probed into the root zone of existing plants. Most hydroponic growers simply add the fungi by diluting the powder holding the spores into some water and adding this to their nutrient solution. It’s very easy.
Q. Do mycorrhizal fungi actually guard the roots against other nasties? If so, which nasties exactly?
Yes. Nasties include: rhizoctonia, fusarium, pythium and phytophthora. They can also mitigate the detrimental effects of high salt conditions.
Q. How exactly do mycorrhizal fungi guard the roots? Do they simply ìcrowd outî the root zone or is it more complex?
Endo mycorrhizal fungi thicken the cell walls around the root cortex making it harder for pathogens to penetrate. They also compete with pathogens for some of the same food sources. Mycorrhizal fungi help with antibiotic production, armoring of roots with chitin, and control of excess nutrients.
Q. What’s the difference between “endo” and “ecto” mycorrhizal fungi?
Endo = has an exchange mechanism inside the root (and hyphae extends outside of the root). Ecto= lives only outside the root. The endo mycorrhizae form with mostly green, leafy plants and most commercially produced plants. Ecto mycorrhizae form with mainly conifers and oaks: more woody plants. Endos are for everything else. In hydroponics, ectos don’t even matter. Fruits, veg, flowers … stuff we love to grow … they love endo.
Q. Are there any differences in how the hydroponic grower should use mycorrhizal fungi compared with the organic grower?
Both types of grower need to get the inoculum near roots. Same product, same application rates. Same number of spores per square foot. Both types of growers can reduce their nitrogen and phosphorus inputs.
Q. Do mycorrhizal fungi help with nutrient extraction in a hydroponic environment or are they more relevant in soil / organics where nutrients need to be broken down first in order to become available?
Mycorrhizal fungi are just as effective in hydroponic applications as they are in organics / soil. A main function of mycorrhizal fungi is phosphorus uptake. It’s important to have a good colonization and a good mycorrhizal fungi “web” already established before you go into flowering.

also... High dosages of synthetic ammonia-based fertilizers can kill the
beneficial fungi and other microorganisms in the soil. Slow release Osmocote
type synthetic fertilizers (God forbid!!) at half the recommended rate, or
organic fertilizers can actually benefit the mycorrhizal process. You can
definitely disrupt mycorrhizae by making the soil too rich. It doesn't
necessarily kill the spores, but it inhibits the association. Somehow the
plant
or the spore decides that the association is unwarranted.


i dunno if it helps out anyone else but it sure did me. thanks to you as well jmans :)
 
I read that article as well and I agree results will occur using Myco, however in my experiences just not as drastically in hydro environments. Although Myco feed off plant exudates to live, they also require humic acids to germinate prolifically, as stated in that article. The plant must be inticed into developing a relationship with the microbes.

Humic acid is one ingrediant excellant for Myco, it contains many vital minerals, nutreints and also has significant amounts of included Fulvic acid. Fulvic acid has some important roles. One of which is a bio-stimulant. Feeding the plant properly, we can essentially influence the plant to produce exudates attractive to Myco and hence the symbiotic relasionship will occur. In reality, the plant is the boss. She determines when to interact with microbial life or not through her exudates. As growers, we can take advantage of that. Without organic bio-mass or additional organic solubles like sea-weed it's difficult to get these items (humic Acids) to the plants.

Typically, when MJ is fed with synthetic solubles she has no need to "interact" with microbes hence Myco simply has a difficult time developing prolifically. I'm not trying to deter you fom experimentation, in fact, I'm interested in your results so keep us posted. Best of luck.............
 
thanks again jmans, you definitely know your stuff and i definitely do not deter that easy :) . i will put up a grow journal for the experiment when the time comes but it wont be for a couple weeks, im in the middle of expanding my growing space. do you know if there is a different type of this that might be better for a synthetic solution or do you figure the great white is my best bet??
 
ta2dguy said:
j mans,the solution i use is a synthetic/chemical solution not organic

umbra, 15 years and never go back:eek: :holysheep: . i am interested in hearing more as to why the change after so long. i started in dirt over 20 years ago but quickly turned to hydro, which was now almost 20 years ago(on and off, mostly on :) ) i cannot imagine going back to soil but i do know alot more now than i did 22 years ago. tell me more while we :48:

Its a personal preference. I started more than 20 years ago with soil. Graduated to hydro, and have come full circle back to soil. Only its not just soil, its organics. A whole different skill set. Self contained micro eco system. My compost pile led to my worm farm, and now to bee keeping. Still all about self contain micro eco system.
 
thank you very much umbra. just 1 more thing, but i think the answer is in the fact that you are staying with organics, do you find a better yield/quality growing organically??
 

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