Bummed: more bad seed from Attitude - bad Kaliman!

[Old_SSSC_Guy]

Yes - I have. It was unsuccessful.

Have you ever tried just returning saying the product wasn't meeting up to your satisfaction? No grow talk, no germination questions, nothing but these aren't what I had hoped? You cannot talk growing or it's risking their business and likely getting you that cold shoulder feel!

 

[ozzydiodude]

It would be nice for "breeders" to put freshness date on packet of seeds but I bet the guys and girls filling the orders just dump the new batch of packets of seeds on top the old packets. So the newer seeds would be the first to go out then the older ones would probly be crushed when they finally got sent to some one

 

[Roddy]

Huh? Come on Roddy. Is no complaint tolerated here at all!? I said "Its like the seed is VERY old and inviable; or something is going wrong with their transport/shipping methods." Sorry to have stated an opinion. I said "ITS LIKE" and I did not day "IT IS ALL OLD". I did not accuse them of fraud. I did not say that they are ripping people off. I complained that a consistent amount of seed I have gotten from them has proven to be worthless - and guessed a couple of reasons it could happen. Wow - how sacrilegious of me I guess. I did NOT tell anyone to not order from Attitude. I did NOT say they were fraudulent.

The Kaliman seed I got from them was almost worthless. Same with Tangerine Dream. Same with some others. I guess that when it happens people are supposed to stay quiet and not say a word? No one should suggest ANY reasons for the failures or expect be insulted in return?

Sorry if it offends some people here that I have gotten bad seed from Attitude. I've gone through more than 50+ packets from them - but I should say nothing at all about - nor guess any reason for - the consistent failures!?!?!? Whether you agree or not - I have gotten bad seed from them - and from Hemp Depot. It DOES happen, whether you accept it or not, and whether it offends you or not.

Geez - some folks on this board sure do selectively **** on you for having an opinion, or if you don't post in some made-up baby talk language that shows how "cool" you are. Really grown to feel cliquish as heck.

Complaints, I can live with. Making statements which misleads others to think Attitude is dealing junk....

I accept there's bad seed out there, I told ya it has happened to me. What I don't like seeing is pointing a finger at the company the distributes instead of the breeder...the distributor can only deal with what they are given to distribute. Throwing insinuations that Attitude could be ripping you off really makes me question the message.

If, as has been pointed out, these bad seed were mostly newer stock, do you suppose it could be a breeder issue? How can you blame Attitude for this, again, they merely sell what they are given as stock. Obviously not old stock. Unless you truly believe into the claims they're switching seed etc. I've seen it said there were small seeds and such saying they were obviously bad at first glance....they surely came from the breeder to Attitude.

I really have to ask, also, if you feel so badly about Attitude and have had so many bad experiences, why order from them at all?

As for the "cliquish" comment, betting most would say otherwise...as far as I'm concerned at least!

 

[Roddy]

Saying to send in several orders and see if switching is going on suggests you suspect fraud and is suggesting others should, too.

 

[Roddy]

Yes - I have. It was unsuccessful.

My one time I complained, they sent me a new pack of seeds...a different pack than I ordered because I told them I had no faith in GHS. They told me that I had broken their terms of service by talking germination, but as another person's thread suggests, told me they'd make it right...and did!

Might just have caught the right person on a good day, I suppose, but I was happy...and learned about their TOS!

 

[Roddy]

It would be nice for "breeders" to put freshness date on packet of seeds but I bet the guys and girls filling the orders just dump the new batch of packets of seeds on top the old packets. So the newer seeds would be the first to go out then the older ones would probly be crushed when they finally got sent to some one

Ya could be right, but if anything like the grocery stores, old stock goes to the front, new to the back. As you say, without date stamps, it's impossible to tell and you're at the mercy of the stock crew!

 

[Old_SSSC_Guy]

OK Roddy, how is that different from expecting a grocery store to have fresh produce; but if its nasty, molded or rotted, its the solely the fault of the farmer?

Under your logic a new "breeder" wholesales to them sealed packets of unknown seed and its 100% OK for the Attitude to not check the stock, or even test it for germination rates. You leave way too much up to an assumption of experience and honesty from an unknown breeder or wholesaler and you absolve the retailer from any responsibility for quality control.

Instead, why not tell me about the quality control systems used at Attitude? Tell me about their storage methods, how they test new stock, and how they ensure that some "breeder" has not just bred bag seed and put it in a fancy envelope. Or that some other "breeder" did not just buy a packet of Barney's and let the crop go to seed - then renamed it and sold it to growers as "Bubba Doobie KushSage" or something for a quick $10k. The bigger the seed market gets, the more growers need to demand quality control and vetting of breeders by a wholesaler; like it used to be in the "old days".

When I was with SSSC we DID test the seed bred by others. I myself regularly germed 5 and 10 sets of seed from the shipping inventory to ensure viablity. It was a 'matter of course' thing in basic quality control. If someone said they did not receive quality - we reshipped them a replacement immediately, no questions, no hassles, no requirement for the customer to double or quadruple their legal exposure by requiring the return of bad results.

I did not insinuate that Attitude was ripping people off - please read my orginal rant. Where did I say "do not order from Attitude"? I was venting over the ->consistent<- failure of some packets from them, and guessing out my butt as to the reason(s). What is the alternative Roddy? Never warning others about unsuccessful orders? There are so many newbies on this forum and often they see the seed banks as the panacea for growing. They order a pack and if it fails to germ - they blame themselves.

I order only breeder packs from Attitude. I never suggested that they were opening those packs and messing with the seed, I did NOT say or suggest they falsified anything. But unless they have basic quality control and proper storage of stock - both are issues they remain silent on - then they might be more potentially to blame than the breeder. Have you EVER heard of how Attitude reviews or vets a new breeder's stock? They have gaggles of "breeders" that no one ever heard of - has there ever been any mention of exactly how Attitude checks new breeders?

All the packs in the pic were from Attitude, I went through maybe 2-3 times that before I started saving the packs for fun. The failures I get have not stopped me from ordering from them, nor from recommending them to others. But it will not stop be from complaining when I get false returns, or when I get caught in their catch-22 return policy.

​

I accept there's bad seed out there, I told ya it has happened to me. What I don't like seeing is pointing a finger at the company the distributes instead of the breeder...the distributor can only deal with what they are given to distribute. Throwing insinuations that Attitude could be ripping you off really makes me question the message.

 

[Old_SSSC_Guy]

But that is what you pay the grocery store and their wholesaler to do. Basic quality control and stock rotation.

Glad to see that at least you might agree with my suggestion of 'born on' dates on breeder packets. Geez, even my beer now comes with a "freshness date" and it does not cost $5 to $15 a bottle!

Ya could be right, but if anything like the grocery stores, old stock goes to the front, new to the back. As you say, without date stamps, it's impossible to tell and you're at the mercy of the stock crew!

 

[Roddy]

A "born on" date would be the responsibility of the breeder, though....not the distributor. imho

 

[Old_SSSC_Guy]

Sigh... No, it was suggesting that breeders can find a value in verifiying their product is retailed correctly. Its done throughout the retail sales chain with hundreds of product lines - lines which sell for MUCH less value and MUCH lower markup range.

Saying to send in several orders and see if switching is going on suggests you suspect fraud and is suggesting others should, too.

 

[Roddy]

Under your logic a new "breeder" wholesales to them sealed packets of unknown seed and its 100% OK for the Attitude to not check the stock, or even test it for germination rates. You leave way too much up to an assumption of experience and honesty from an unknown breeder or wholesaler and you absolve the retailer from any responsibility for quality control.

I'm sure we both understand we're talking a seed that can be viable for years, not a head of cabbage or lettuce, or a gallon of milk that needs be watched for expiration on a daily basis.

Instead, why not tell me about the quality control systems used at Attitude? Tell me about their storage methods, how they test new stock, and how they ensure that some "breeder" has not just bred bag seed and put it in a fancy envelope. Or that some other "breeder" did not just buy a packet of Barney's and let the crop go to seed - then renamed it and sold it to growers as "Bubba Doobie KushSage" or something for a quick $10k. The bigger the seed market gets, the more growers need to demand quality control and vetting of breeders by a wholesaler; like it used to be in the "old days".

Truly, I don't know nor pretend to know their QC and whatnot, I don't work there nor do I in any way represent them. But, for breeders to trust the distributor with their product, I am guessing one would either need to have a pretty good reputation OR the breeder is not concerned with who puts them out, just in the money.

I did not insinuate that Attitude was ripping people off - please read my orginal rant. Where did I say "do not order from Attitude"? I was venting over the ->consistent<- failure of some packets from them, and guessing out my butt as to the reason(s). What is the alternative Roddy? Never warning others about unsuccessful orders? There are so many newbies on this forum and often they see the seed banks as the panacea for growing. They order a pack and if it fails to germ - they blame themselves.

Its like the seed is VERY old and inviable; or something is going wrong with their transport/shipping methods.

How are we to know that people like Attitude are not shipping 1-2 yr old seed?

If you are a breeder selling through Attitude I'd have to recommend you place a couple of covert orders to see and verify that Attitude is shipping what you sold them at wholesale.

When I was with SSSC we DID test the seed bred by others. I myself regularly germed 5 and 10 sets of seed from the shipping inventory to ensure viablity. It was a 'matter of course' thing in basic quality control. If someone said they did not receive quality - we reshipped them a replacement immediately, no questions, no hassles, no requirement for the customer to double or quadruple their legal exposure by requiring the return of bad results.

Sounds like sssc was a small company with plenty of time on their hands if you can germ out seeds before putting them on the shelves. I don't think it's gonna be the same with Attitude. just making an assumption based on the info presented. However, why should Attitude test a new shipment of seed from a breeder? Are you saying Target should be checking every TV coming in to assure it works? Or are you saying Attitude shouldn't trust the breeders?

 

[Roddy]

experience and honesty from an unknown breeder or wholesaler and you absolve the retailer from any responsibility for quality control.

Truly, I don't get your point here. Are you really saying that the two businesses should be watching each other for possible theft, deception and bad product?? If so, sounds like a partnership I wouldn't want to start or be a part of if I were EITHER side. In a business, companies do business with people they TRUST. I have never gone to a manufacturer of lawn mowers I even ASSUMED was worthless or unreliable, I do my homework, check out companies and decide which can be trusted, which will do the job I need done and THEN I decide who I will buy!

In the end, if I buy a Jacobson's mower, I buy it from a dealer, but I know my warranty is through the manufacturer.

 

[ozzydiodude]

Roddy if you don't Know who the SSSC was, you really need to research before saying anything..

 

[Old_SSSC_Guy]

Sorry Roddy, and I honestly mean no insult, but I fear you don't understand how larger retailers (and small ones) do inventory and quality control checking. No, Target does not test each and every TV they sell - instead they do a complete eval process on every single model before they put them on the shelves. Then after they receive 1000 units (a number FMA) shipped they DO pull random units and test them. Take a look at any large retailer from Costco to Walmart and you will find a massive quality control department which does nothing but pre-test all product lines and also pull QC samples which were shipped to the stores. In addition, almost every large wholesaler does retailer checking on product they sold them. They check the displays, snoop in the storage rooms to check how things are stacked, all sorts of secondary QC checking - its done as a matter of course. I worked in the hydro shop industry for years and years and we very regularly evaluated and tested the gear we sold. Again, its a matter of course; and a priority in proportion to the profit level of the product line.

I am not saying that Attitude is Walmart. But do you honestly think that they - especially at their level of volume and profit - are incapable of doing basic quality control? At that profit level you can afford gold-lined casks for storage (laughing). I'd refer to GHS, but don't think you'd care for their QC systems much; and use them as an example of how even when you "do it right" you can have some really impressive failures.

And I think that breeders ->do<- perform retail checking, just like a larger grower will check on the retail side of a dispensary they sell to. Methinks that my heros like NorCal Hal have taken a moment to ensure their product is stored and handled properly at retail, you know? Nothing like seeing the blood, sweat and tears of a beautiful large crop of your finest product turn to crispy flakey shake at the bottom of large glass jars because the retailer is storing and treating your bud like hard candy.

I understand your points buddy, but fear you are being defensive without cause. Today is Sunday - my Cheese smoking day. What's your choice for Sunday lazy smokeables? As the day goes on I am sure my arguments will grow sillier... heh...

Sounds like sssc was a small company with plenty of time on their hands if you can germ out seeds before putting them on the shelves. I don't think it's gonna be the same with Attitude. just making an assumption based on the info presented. However, why should Attitude test a new shipment of seed from a breeder? Are you saying Target should be checking every TV coming in to assure it works? Or are you saying Attitude shouldn't trust the breeders?

 

[Old_SSSC_Guy]

Thank you OzzyTheDude... At the time there was us and Nevil's "The Seed Bank". If you knew much about TSB, you knew that quality control was not their strong suit - and because of it we did very well.

Gives me warm fuzzies to know that we are still remembered... sniff... sniff... Makes me wanna get out my Jimmy Hendrix records and blow my nose.

Roddy if you don't Know who the SSSC was, you really need to research before saying anything..

 

[BackWoodsDrifter]

Yual need to pass around the marshmellows

BWD

 

[Roddy]

Roddy if you don't Know who the SSSC was, you really need to research before saying anything..

I know who sssc is, no worries there! Or should say I know he was in the biz...

 

[Roddy]

Sorry Roddy, and I honestly mean no insult, but I fear you don't understand how larger retailers (and small ones) do inventory and quality control checking. No, Target does not test each and every TV they sell - instead they do a complete eval process on every single model before they put them on the shelves. Then after they receive 1000 units (a number FMA) shipped they DO pull random units and test them. Take a look at any large retailer from Costco to Walmart and you will find a massive quality control department which does nothing but pre-test all product lines and also pull QC samples which were shipped to the stores. In addition, almost every large wholesaler does retailer checking on product they sold them. They check the displays, snoop in the storage rooms to check how things are stacked, all sorts of secondary QC checking - its done as a matter of course. I worked in the hydro shop industry for years and years and we very regularly evaluated and tested the gear we sold. Again, its a matter of course; and a priority in proportion to the profit level of the product line.

Right, and as you would know, there are still many bad products on the shelves being sold daily. Is it the fault of Wal-Mart?

I agree that Attitude does QC, don't think I'm suggesting otherwise, but like Wally world, the manufacturers (breeders) DO get some bad products through their extensive QC control.

 

[Roddy]

And I think that breeders ->do<- perform retail checking, just like a larger grower will check on the retail side of a dispensary they sell to. Methinks that my heros like NorCal Hal have taken a moment to ensure their product is stored and handled properly at retail, you know? Nothing like seeing the blood, sweat and tears of a beautiful large crop of your finest product turn to crispy flakey shake at the bottom of large glass jars because the retailer is storing and treating your bud like hard candy.

Right, I know it's what's done in the golf business as we have reps visit us from time to time. No trickery orders or the like, just meet with us and make sure all is well. Good business practice!

But...if Hal's buds turn all shaky flake and "bottom of the bag" quality, he's either growing something that sells slow or is overstocking....knowing Hal, the man is growing too darned much :rofl: :rofl:

I truly don't get it...this was meant as a compliment and of course was taken otherwise. :confused2: My point to that comment (regarding Hal) was that the man obviously produces good smoke that will fly off the shelf, so it can't be a problem of "something that sells slow"....I guess someone mistook it as a bit of jealousy.

 

[Roddy]

I understand your points buddy, but fear you are being defensive without cause. Today is Sunday - my Cheese smoking day. What's your choice for Sunday lazy smokeables? As the day goes on I am sure my arguments will grow sillier... heh...

Just protective of a place I'm happy to do business with and am happy to refer others to!

Absolutely, at no time did I suspect feelings were being hurt, and always enjoy a good debate, no worries and hope no hard feelings on your end, my friend! I'm loading some nicely cured OG as I type!!

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