Can A Sibling Be My Cregvr????????

[greenfairy]

I am a newly registered MMJ patient, & I have a sibling who has been registered for awhile... I was wondering if he can be my P.C.G.? I've tried finding out on Colorado MMJ Laws websites, Sensible Colorado websites, etc... not helpful, so I'm turning to my friends in 'the community'!! eace:

 

[dragracer]

absolutely!!

 

[greenfairy]

:clap: :woohoo: : :dancing: Thanks! I had heard from a Dr's office, that if 2 patients live 2gether, they could'nt be each others caregiver, but nothing about siblings, & having the same last name... there's just alot of gray areas. :hairpull: So, again, thank you!eace:

 

[Hick]

:clap: :woohoo: : :dancing: Thanks! I had heard from a Dr's office, that if 2 patients live 2gether, they could'nt be each others caregiver, but nothing about siblings, & having the same last name... there's just alot of gray areas. :hairpull: So, again, thank you!eace:

"grey areas" !!.. boy howdee! .. but I'm confused a lill with your post... I'm trying to understand 'why' you would name a "caregiver", in your case, and not simply be "self sufficient".. your "own" caregiver/provider... both you and your sibling.
Assigning anyone else as your "PCG" eliminates your option to grow your own. i.e. "you" cannot grow 6 plants AND your PCG grow 6 plants on a single permit.

 

[NorCalHal]

Now that Colorado has MMJ on the books, you will soon see that the majority of folks would rather NOT grow thier own herb, and would rather designate someone to grow for them.

 

[Hick]

Now that Colorado has MMJ on the books, you will soon see that the majority of folks would rather NOT grow thier own herb, and would rather designate someone to grow for them.

We shall see hal.. CO is being carefull to NOT follow in Ca's footsteps. They're 'cracking' down, or trying to at least, on 'caregivers' and big numbers. Also on the requirements for Dr. giving the recommendations.
:confused2:.. Why?... would anyne that "CAN" grow, be more willing to pay in excess of $500 per Oz, when they can reward themselves with the same product for pennies on the dollar...
"Grow your own" greenfairy. It's much more satisfying.... Resist the urge to contribute to the chain of greed.

 

[NorCalHal]

Co is following Cali to the letter, imo. Thier models for for dispensaries is excatally what Cali is doing. Not tryin' to start an argument bro, just stating what I have been reading and from a few friends who live in CO.

Cali allready "cracked" down on caregivers, redifining the meaning. A caregiver is only a caregiver if that person is solely responsible for theactual care of an indigent person.
So, that took out "caregiver" status for 95% of folks who used caregiver status as thier legal protection.

I will have to read a bit on the conditions of what a Doctor can recommend "MMJ" for, as I am not too sure about CO. You got me curious.
It does seem to me that pretty much anyone can get a card in Colo, plesae correct me if I am wrong.


I understand your thoughts on the "chain of greed". But believe me sir, it is FAST becoming a Legal industry and it is following the footsteps of prohibition recall of alcohol. If you want a satisfiying career, then it's time to jump in the Biz, let me tell you. I am sure back when Alcohol became relegalized, there were plenty of "moonshiners" thought thought the same.

Please do not get me wrong. I do agree that anyone with a little drive and some good reading/retention skills can learn to grow thier own herb. It simply will not happen. Never. The majority of folks will allways want to buy thier herb rather then grow it.
It is quite easy to change your brake pads on your vehicle, but most folks hire someone to do it for them. And changing brake pads is alot eaiser then growing FINE dank. Wouldn't u agree?

I also agree that growing your own is satisfying. Nothing like it. That is why we are here at MP. Our love for the "grow". Again, this is one of the reasons I joined here, to learn and share knowledge of growing. I would not hesitate to help someone become self sufficiant.

IMO, we will need folks out there to supply the "dispensaries". I am not sure how the dispensaries are fairing in CO, but I am sure they are quite busy. Correct me if I am wrong.
Take the time to talk to folks in the dispensary and ask them why they do not just grow thier own. Too many reasons.

For me, I have been working hard on a new "gig". Time is not on the side of growers here in Cali. It will soon be legal for all over the age of 21 in California. Soon after, other states will follow, as usualy. My bet is CO will be the first one. Look at Brekenridge, they followed suit on what Oakland did in legalizing MMJ for adults.


Again, not to start an argument Hick, but I trust your judgement and value your opinion greatly. I would love to hear "your take" on what is happening in CO. From what I see, it is moving FAST.

 

[PeterPotatoes]

I'm pretty sure giving out your care giver status now allows someone to come to your house and check up on your grow as well. Granted from what I heard they just come in take a peak and walk out. If you don't give anyone care giver status I cant see why someone would come to check up on you because they don't know if your growing for your self or not.

Most people I know don't even register since the law states you can legally grow/buy with just a script.

Check out "The Strain Man" website. He has some good info and gives ratings to the legit dispensary's

 

[Hick]

;..NCH we've discussed disagreements before, we don't have to argue
Here's 'my' take... there are those that are pushing to follow ca's path pretty closely.(primarily the ne metro area and the liberal ski valley) BUT there is also a pretty large faction pushing for more control. Dispensaries are under a moratorium in most towns/cities, though a few are running rampant. (I hear denver has more dispensaries than they do Starbucks!) Our city attorney has however, issued a warning to be carefull 'not' to put the city in danger of law suits with their moratorium. (Legal mumbo-jumbo/wording)
What the legislature is working on now, are the Dr.s. To this point, dispensaries have been putting Drs on the payroll to recommend/'script patients. It's been said that a high percentage of those Drs have either had their FDA liscence pulled, or were never FDA certified. Basically meaning they "can't" prescribe drugs, but the "can" 'prescribe' mj 'cause it isn't fda certified.
You're right, at present, virtually anyone can get a permit. The dispensaries will provide you with someone to write you a recommendation. They are after the 'caregiver' permits. For $190, you drop in while the doc is on duty, he writes the recommendation, they do the state paperwork, you sign over your caregiver status to them, and get your first 1/8 free.
I'm not sure how the 'big city' disp' are faring, but I hear/see a lot of demand for product locally. (4-5k p#)

I see a change coming in our 'swing state' status this year. Our dem' governor is on the fast track outta' here. I'm here.. and I see a pretty big strong movement toward a more conservative electorial. Co isn't $28 billion in debt... mj isn't going to "save our economy".. Co does not want that "Tax(and tax and tax) 'n spend" government. We have a mandated 'balanced budget' requirement. No deficit can be carried over to the next year. Our budget "must" balance at the end of every physcal year. We are NOT following ca "to the letter"..
I think we're looking at about a 1 billion dollar shortfall in our state budget at present.
Don't take it wrong hal, I do want to see more leniency in pot laws. Pot smoking should NOT make you a criminal, not in my eyes. But I have a reeeal hard time distinguishing folks fleecing ppl out of $500+ p/oz and 'criminals'... that is more than double what the Black Market prices were when it was totally illegal!..when "only" criminals dealt in it.. IMO 'legalization'.. decriminalization.. should bring prices down, not extort them..
Hal you know I've been growing pot for a long time. I've gone to jail for it. I've been active in promoting mmj. I've taken my knocks and not been dissuaded.
I'm not condemning ca for it's groundbreaking laws and legislation on mj. But to use a liberal spending legislature as an excuse to tax and control it, I do. For 'me', it holds a deeper political connection than I feel free to express here.
It isn't about the legalization, it's about the 'big gov' control, taxation, and spending.

 

[NorCalHal]

GREAT response Hick, and thats for your take and info.

I gotta read this a couple of times to get a good understanding .

Sounds like the caregiver status is a little out of control, as well as the dispensaries themselves providing on site Doctors. I have never seen that at any cali disensary.

 

[NorCalHal]

;..NCH we've discussed disagreements before, we don't have to argue

Thats why I love this site! Good folks!

Here's 'my' take... there are those that are pushing to follow ca's path pretty closely.(primarily the ne metro area and the liberal ski valley) BUT there is also a pretty large faction pushing for more control. Dispensaries are under a moratorium in most towns/cities, though a few are running rampant. (I hear denver has more dispensaries than they do Starbucks!) Our city attorney has however, issued a warning to be carefull 'not' to put the city in danger of law suits with their moratorium. (Legal mumbo-jumbo/wording)

MMJ is fairly new to CO. So, with that said, it gets "out of control" fast.
The Oakland/SF Bay Area has been heavy into the MMJ scene since '97, and it hads its ups and downs for sure. It actually did not spread to other parts of the state until nearly 10 years later, for what ever reason. The main reason I believe is the multiple busts that occured and the "waiting" for all the cases to go thru the court system, only to have most throw out, unless it was a Federal case of course.
Once folks saw people getting cases dropped and herb being given back by the courts, it EXPLODED in a matter of a few years.
I think that CO didn't have to go thru that "learning" curve, and just went full bore from the day of "MMJ legalization".
So, basically, every pot dealing gangster wannabe has since opened up a club, thus giving MMJ a bad name in folks eyes in CO. That is excatally what is occuring in L.A. and the southeren part of Cali.

What the legislature is working on now, are the Dr.s. To this point, dispensaries have been putting Drs on the payroll to recommend/'script patients. It's been said that a high percentage of those Drs have either had their FDA liscence pulled, or were never FDA certified. Basically meaning they "can't" prescribe drugs, but the "can" 'prescribe' mj 'cause it isn't fda certified.
You're right, at present, virtually anyone can get a permit. The dispensaries will provide you with someone to write you a recommendation. They are after the 'caregiver' permits. For $190, you drop in while the doc is on duty, he writes the recommendation, they do the state paperwork, you sign over your caregiver status to them, and get your first 1/8 free.
I'm not sure how the 'big city' disp' are faring, but I hear/see a lot of demand for product locally. (4-5k p#)

That is suprising man. To get a Valid rec here, a Doctor MUST be an accreditied active Doctor licensed by the State of Cali. The Doctor MUST have FDA approval. This means that a Chiropractor or accupuncturist cannot give out a Rec.
Again, my bad for not reading up on the CO MMJ law yet.
So, from your post, it seems that the only way a Dispensary is able to operate in CO is to be the "caregiver' for the multiple folks going in and out.
That is not how Cali is set up for dispensary sales/operation. They are set up as "Collectives". This means it is a group of folks who help eachother out. BIG GREY AREA. This means that Person "A" can help ot by "donating" $60 an eigth to the collective to cover operating csts and growers time and effort.

I know bro, sounds a little silly....but that is the true gig on how they are allowed to operate. Our law states that a Collective can be compensated by either donating "Time,equipment,knowledge or MONEY. Money being the main thing that folks "donate" to get thier meds offered by thier local "Collective".

Again, as you stated, TERMINOLOGY.
Caregiver status has been shot down. The State redifined "Caregiver" and a person can only get that designation if they truly take care of the persons health and well being for all other aspects of the persons life, NOT JUST GROWING/SUPPLYING herb.

So, the moral of that story is that when a person "signs up" at a "collective" in Cali, they are NOT giving up thier rights to grow for themselves at all. The "Collectives" have nothing to do with being a caregiver to that person, it is simply a group of folks who share thier herb and compensate eachother thru time,equiupment or FINANCIAL means, mostly financial. What can I say, it is still about the loot.
That suprises me a bit too, the wholesale price on herb. It has dropped tremendously here. 4-5k is unheard of anymore. 3 being the norm for most herbs, and I am talking about BOMB, not outdoor or b grade.

 

[NorCalHal]

I see a change coming in our 'swing state' status this year. Our dem' governor is on the fast track outta' here. I'm here.. and I see a pretty big strong movement toward a more conservative electorial. Co isn't $28 billion in debt... mj isn't going to "save our economy".. Co does not want that "Tax(and tax and tax) 'n spend" government. We have a mandated 'balanced budget' requirement. No deficit can be carried over to the next year. Our budget "must" balance at the end of every physcal year. We are NOT following ca "to the letter"..
I think we're looking at about a 1 billion dollar shortfall in our state budget at present.
Don't take it wrong hal, I do want to see more leniency in pot laws. Pot smoking should NOT make you a criminal, not in my eyes. But I have a reeeal hard time distinguishing folks fleecing ppl out of $500+ p/oz and 'criminals'... that is more than double what the Black Market prices were when it was totally illegal!..when "only" criminals dealt in it.. IMO 'legalization'.. decriminalization.. should bring prices down, not extort them..
Hal you know I've been growing pot for a long time. I've gone to jail for it. I've been active in promoting mmj. I've taken my knocks and not been dissuaded.
I'm not condemning ca for it's groundbreaking laws and legislation on mj. But to use a liberal spending legislature as an excuse to tax and control it, I do. For 'me', it holds a deeper political connection than I feel free to express here.
It isn't about the legalization, it's about the 'big gov' control, taxation, and spending.

Prices........makes me want to scream man.

I do agree that fleecing folks for 500 a zip is out of hand, but who is to blame? The guy selling it or the fool buying it?

As for CA being out of hand in debt, well...it will get worse before it gets better, and if they really think that taxing MJ will get us out of it, they are mistaken. Again, it is just a "scare" tactic used by the pro legalization front in convincing the conservitives to allow the legalization.
We smoke ALOT of herb in Cali, but not enough to fix our Goverment spending. Thats a whole other discussion. Just wait till the "Big One" Quake hits in the next few years, the state will collapse financially.

But, that is not my concern. I vote, that is my only way of speaking out, for now.


Back to prices. The Street market has EXPLODED due to the high prices that the dispensarys charge. Street prices are at an all time LOW. If you know, you can get herb FAR cheaper then any dispensary and the SAME quality. It has reversed. It used to be the other way around.
I know for a FACT that wholesale prices are at an all time low. But the dispensaries are not passing on the "savings" at ALL to the end customer.
IE. the same strain I sold last year for XX amount is now about $1000 cheaper, BUT, the bottom line price for the same herb in the Dispensary is actually higher, $65 an eigth, $60 for the dispensary and $5 for the state.
That is the going rate for "top shelf". Yet whole sale pounds are at an all time low.

So, I hear you my friend. Dispensaries MUST be put in check with thier prices.

Or, like you said all along, just GROW YOUR OWN and be done with it.

 

[dragracer]

I have yet to see 500 ounces here in Colorado. Most dispensaries try to give a discount price for your grow rights, or a freebie every month, but 300 to 350 is normal for walkins and 200 to 275 if you are a club member. There is a bill coming that would restrict dispensaries from paying for your recommendation and state fee's which is the norm right now. Caregiver scam's are everywhere, and with the ability to change your caregiver status so frequently, people are out scamming for freebies,then change the next day. Prices around here are still the same on the streets, supply has not brought the cost down yet. The new bill also is going to require dispensaries to operate as non-profits and grow their own supply, so we will see where that goes. Also, you are going to be required to have a "doctor patient relationship" meaning you have to have follow up visits, not just see him once for your recommendation. It is growing so fast they are going to put an 18 month moritirium on new shops so they can figure out better regulation. Right now the secondary business's like grow stores, insurance, lighting, HVAC, remodelers etc. are all doing a booming business trying to keep up with demand. The horse is defintely out of the barn, they are just trying to get a bridle on it !!

 

[Hick]

I have yet to see 500 ounces here in Colorado.

I've not been 'up north' drag'.. in fact, have only visited a couple of dispensaries. One in C. springs and one further south. Their base price was $50-$65 p/ 1/8th. Between the two, they didn't have over 20 strains to choose from I don't think. AND, I wasn't really impressed with the quality.
I did find some... uhmmm "blue Dream".. that I considered "top notch" quality.
I imagine that will all change in due time. Quality dispensaries, quality product, should eventually .."weed" out the less desirables. Just as hal seems to be seeing in cali.
..."they are just trying to get a bridle on it !"... pretty good analogy right there I foresee it getting a bit more difficult to get the recommendation in the near future. Eliminating the non-licensed docs, the "caregiver" status, ect. But the "collectives" idea, interests me. "Non"-profit collectives?

 

[NorCalHal]

[/SIZE]

But the "collectives" idea, interests me. "Non"-profit collectives?

I knew it would my Friend, I knew it would. There is a correct way to do business in a new emerging market nad still keep your personal values intact.
Here is an excerpt of the Law in Cali regarding collectives, a long read, but this is how we,in cali, are supposed to operate in a collective form.

Might take a couple of posts, so bear with me.

[B]

IV. G​

UIDELINES REGARDING COLLECTIVES AND COOPERATIVES​

[/B]

Under California law, medical marijuana patients and primary caregivers may “associate
within the State of California in order collectively or cooperatively to cultivate marijuana for
medical purposes.” (§ 11362.775.) The following guidelines are meant to apply to qualified
patients and primary caregivers who come together to collectively or cooperatively cultivate
physician-recommended marijuana.​

A. Business Forms​

​

: Any group that is collectively or cooperatively cultivating and
distributing marijuana for medical purposes should be organized and operated in a manner
that ensures the security of the crop and safeguards against diversion for non-medical
purposes. The following are guidelines to help cooperatives and collectives operate within
the law, and to help law enforcement determine whether they are doing so.
1. Statutory Cooperatives: A cooperative must file articles of incorporation
with the state and conduct its business for the mutual benefit of its members.
(Corp. Code, § 12201, 12300.) No business may call itself a “cooperative” (or “coop”)
unless it is properly organized and registered as such a corporation under the
Corporations or Food and Agricultural Code. (Id. at § 12311(b).) Cooperative
corporations are “democratically controlled and are not organized to make a profit
for themselves, as such, or for their members, as such, but primarily for their
members as patrons.” (Id. at § 12201.) The earnings and savings of the business
must be used for the general welfare of its members or equitably distributed to
members in the form of cash, property, credits, or services. (Ibid.) Cooperatives
must follow strict rules on organization, articles, elections, and distribution of
earnings, and must report individual transactions from individual members each
year. (See id. at § 12200, et seq.) Agricultural cooperatives are likewise nonprofit
corporate entities “since they are not organized to make profit for themselves, as
such, or for their members, as such, but only for their members as producers.”
(Food & Agric. Code, § 54033.) Agricultural cooperatives share many
characteristics with consumer cooperatives. (See, e.g., id. at § 54002, et seq.)
Cooperatives should not purchase marijuana from, or sell to, non-members;
instead, they should only provide a means for facilitating or coordinating
transactions between members.
2. Collectives: California law does not define collectives, but the dictionary
defines them as “a business, farm, etc., jointly owned and operated by the members
of a group.” (Random House Unabridged Dictionary; Random House, Inc.
© 2006.) Applying this definition, a collective should be an organization that
merely facilitates the collaborative efforts of patient and caregiver members –
including the allocation of costs and revenues. As such, a collective is not a
statutory entity, but as a practical matter it might have to organize as some form of
business to carry out its activities. The collective should not purchase marijuana
from, or sell to, non-members; instead, it should only provide a means for​

facilitating or coordinating transactions between members.

 

[NorCalHal]

B. ​

Guidelines for the Lawful Operation of a Cooperative or Collective:​

Collectives and cooperatives should be organized with sufficient structure to ensure
security, non-diversion of marijuana to illicit markets, and compliance with all state and
local laws. The following are some suggested guidelines and practices for operating
collective growing operations to help ensure lawful operation.
1. ​

Non-Profit Operation: Nothing in Proposition 215 or the MMP authorizes
collectives, cooperatives, or individuals to profit from the sale or distribution of
marijuana. (See, e.g., § 11362.765(a) [“nothing in this section shall authorize . . .
any individual or group to cultivate or distribute marijuana for profit”].
2. Business Licenses, Sales Tax, and Seller’s Permits: The State Board of
Equalization has determined that medical marijuana transactions are subject to
sales tax, regardless of whether the individual or group makes a profit, and those
engaging in transactions involving medical marijuana must obtain a Seller’s
Permit. Some cities and counties also require dispensing collectives and
cooperatives to obtain business licenses.
3. Membership Application and Verification: When a patient or primary
caregiver wishes to join a collective or cooperative, the group can help prevent the
diversion of marijuana for non-medical use by having potential members complete
a written membership application. The following application guidelines should be
followed to help ensure that marijuana grown for medical use is not diverted to
illicit markets:
a) Verify the individual’s status as a qualified patient or primary caregiver.
Unless he or she has a valid state medical marijuana identification card, this
should involve personal contact with the recommending physician (or his or
her agent), verification of the physician’s identity, as well as his or her state
licensing status. Verification of primary caregiver status should include
contact with the qualified patient, as well as validation of the patient’s
recommendation. Copies should be made of the physician’s
recommendation or identification card, if any;
b) Have the individual agree not to distribute marijuana to non-members;
c) Have the individual agree not to use the marijuana for other than
medical purposes;
d) Maintain membership records on-site or have them reasonably
available;
e) Track when members’ medical marijuana recommendation and/or
identification cards expire; and
f) Enforce conditions of membership by excluding members whose
identification card or physician recommendation are invalid or have​

expired, or who are caught diverting marijuana for non-medical use.

 

[NorCalHal]

4. ​

Collectives Should Acquire, Possess, and Distribute Only Lawfully
Cultivated Marijuana: Collectives and cooperatives should acquire marijuana
only from their constituent members, because only marijuana grown by a qualified
patient or his or her primary caregiver may lawfully be transported by, or
distributed to, other members of a collective or cooperative. (§§ 11362.765,
11362.775.) The collective or cooperative may then allocate it to other members of
the group. Nothing allows marijuana to be purchased from outside the collective or
cooperative for distribution to its members. Instead, the cycle should be a closedcircuit
of marijuana cultivation and consumption with no purchases or sales to or
from non-members. To help prevent diversion of medical marijuana to nonmedical
markets, collectives and cooperatives should document each member’s
contribution of labor, resources, or money to the enterprise. They also should track
and record the source of their marijuana.
5. Distribution and Sales to Non-Members are Prohibited: State law
allows primary caregivers to be reimbursed for certain services (including
marijuana cultivation), but nothing allows individuals or groups to sell or distribute
marijuana to non-members. Accordingly, a collective or cooperative may not
distribute medical marijuana to any person who is not a member in good standing
of the organization. A dispensing collective or cooperative may credit its members
for marijuana they provide to the collective, which it may then allocate to other
members. (§ 11362.765(c).) Members also may reimburse the collective or
cooperative for marijuana that has been allocated to them. Any monetary
reimbursement that members provide to the collective or cooperative should only​

be an amount necessary to cover overhead costs and operating expenses.

 

[NorCalHal]

6. ​

Permissible Reimbursements and Allocations: Marijuana grown at a
collective or cooperative for medical purposes may be:
a) Provided free to qualified patients and primary caregivers who are
members of the collective or cooperative;
b) Provided in exchange for services rendered to the entity;
c) Allocated based on fees that are reasonably calculated to cover
overhead costs and operating expenses; or​

d) Any combination of the above.



The GOLDEN ticket. 6c. Operating expenses cover the growers actual cost of the entire grow, and the Time and efforts of the grower. This means, if a Grower is growinf full time, he/she can be reasonablly compensated for his/her efforts.

Bottom line, if a few folks got together and filed the correct paperwork, they can grow in one facility and sell off ecess herb to compensate themselves for thier efforts.
As long as taxes are paid, it is all good.



I love Cali.

 

[NorCalHal]

A quick not on "Non-Profits". Just because you operate a Non-Profit collective, that does not mean you personally cannot earn a living working for the Non-profit. You are entitled to a comparable wage that other Non-profit employees make.

What do you think the CEO of United Way makes in a year? U.W. is also a non profit....catch my drift?

 

[dragracer]

Hick,
You are right about selection and quality. Dispensaries are scrambling to stock whatever they can get their hands on. It is unfortunate that so many will buy anything to sell it to less experienced medicators. The dispensary that I volunteer at is very picky and will put whatever is brought in by vendors under a microscope and put it up on a large flatscreen and look at it closely before buying it. Normally you have to be a volunteer to get caregiver status given to you, because they cannot possibly keep up with the demand coming through the door. That is one reason I volunteer, to expand my grow, and also we get free samples:hubba: The landscape is about to drastically change shortly, but it is needed to curb some of the stuff going on. Right now there is a 2,000 apllication fee, along with a 3,000 annual license fee to open one before the March 1st deadline. If you get denied, you get the 3,000 back for the license fee , but not the 2,000 application fee.