LED Info needed

[Ranek Icewalker]

Thanks Hampster, ill drop hima message

SB, i dunno how people get hydro stores to give/loan them hundred or thousand of dollars worth of equipment, but i need to get in with these stores

 

[OGKushman]

instead of wasting your time, why dont your guys buy a light meter (lux meter) and test tye output of the damn LEDs...youll be happier with the meter...but hey at least yall will learn about output intensities in lumens when compared to input wattage.

You cant fool physics, it takes WATTS to grow big.

 

[OGKushman]

by wasting your time i mean*

wasting your time buying something that is not up to par. Instead of just buying it and guessing if it works, test it. Then post the results.

Maybe: Take your meter to a hydro store with a ruler and inform us of the lumen output at 6inches/1'/2' etc....

just an idea. Im not implying anything from my last 2 posts. Just asking for some definitive results to compare.

 

[StoneyBud]

instead of wasting your time, why don't your guys buy a light meter (lux meter) and test the output of the damn LEDs...you'll be happier with the meter...but hey at least y'all will learn about output intensities in lumens when compared to input wattage.

You cant fool physics, it takes WATTS to grow big.

I'm in a "Low-Money" time right now, but fully intend to buy a light meter as soon as it can be fit into the budget.

I'm pretty sure, as a seasoned grower, you mean "It takes Plant-Usable-Lumens to grow big". Wattage has little to do with it other than being a part of the full equation of plant growth.

Put a 10 thousand watt light 100 feet above a plant and the plant will stretch as bad as one under a 60 watt incandescent bulb 3 feet above it, as you are aware, (I'm saying this for clarity to those who don't know).

Put a 28 watt LED like I use, at 4 inches above a vegging plant that will fit under it in an 18" x 18" canopy area, and it'll thrive, grow great and have the tightest nodes you've ever seen, (I did this already on my current crop and the one before it).

Lumen output from a Halogen light aren't able to be used by a plant very well because the light puts out so damn much heat that you can't get it close enough to the plant for the available lumens to do any good for the plant.

Plant usable lumens. THAT is what makes a plant grow big.

 

[OGKushman]

No it takes Wattage to grow big. At maximun average intensity The sun produces 1000 watts / sq meter. Equivalent to 10000 lumens per square foot.

that equation your talking about is simple physics and some optics. you want to discuss lighting...

lets discuss HPS (for my own lack of testing on LEDs)
1000 watts = 140000 lumens @ 14square feet (~4x4x8 closet)

140,000lum/14sq ft = 10,000lum/sqft

this 10,000 lumens being equivalent to the suns 10,000 lumens in late fall; COULD ONLY BE OBTAINED USING 1,000 WATTS AND HPS LIGHTING.

Thus the statment "It takes Watts to grow big"


Now. Someone do up 100 watts of LEDs and compare (x10). Document with a kill-a-watt, pictures, and a lux meter. I already have an idea of what your going to find based on my research.




My experience leads me to believe tight nodes are more strain dependant than any other factor.

 

[StoneyBud]

No it takes Wattage to grow big. At maximum average intensity The sun produces 1000 watts / sq meter. Equivalent to 10000 lumens per square foot.

that equation your talking about is simple physics and some optics. you want to discuss lighting...

lets discuss HPS (for my own lack of testing on LEDs)
1000 watts = 140000 lumens @ 14square feet (~4x4x8 closet)

140,000lum/14sq ft = 10,000lum/sqft

this 10,000 lumens being equivalent to the suns 10,000 lumens in late fall; COULD ONLY BE OBTAINED USING 1,000 WATTS AND HPS LIGHTING.

Thus the statement "It takes Watts to grow big"


Now. Someone do up 100 watts of LEDs and compare (x10). Document with a kill-a-watt, pictures, and a lux meter. I already have an idea of what your going to find based on my research.




My experience leads me to believe tight nodes are more strain dependant than any other factor.

You can think that wattage makes large plants all you wish, but it simply not true.

Put your ten thousand watt bulb one mile above your plants and see what happens. Nothing.

Put it where the LUMEN count striking the leaf surface are large enough and the same light will grow large plants.

No, the strain had nothing to do with the tight nodes I spoke of. I used the same strain under HPS and under LEDs and the LEDs grew plants with nodes twice as tight as the HPS could at its closest.

I think you're arguing just to be arguing man. We can go around and around with this as long as you like. Wattage is NOT what makes plants grow. Plant usable lumens are.

Please don't start a fight over this. If you think about what I've said, you'll have no choice but to agree because its fact. Proven fact. Proven by about a thousand plant biologists over 50 years.

You're right on one thing; physics proves I'm correct. Photons striking the plant are what makes photosynthesis happen. The further away a light is from the plant, the less of its originating Photons strike that plant. I'm sure that there are stars that have equal or larger mass and output than our sun, but they have no effect on plant life on earth because they are simply too far from earth to have any effect. When the source of the "wattage" is close enough, the light output in a spectrum of light that the plants can effectively use and enough LUMENS are present at the surface of the leaves, the plant will grow its best.

The wattage has little to do with it other than being related to the originating power. My 28 watt LEDs cause more plant growth and better plant growth during vegging, in terms of later yield when *flowered* with a HPS, than a 400 watt HPS when applied at the proper distance from the plant. I've already proven it. I can't get a 400 watt HPS close enough to any plant to do as much good as that 28 watt LED panel does at 4".





.

 

[OGKushman]

I think you're arguing just to be arguing man. We can go around and around with this as long as you like. Wattage is NOT what makes plants grow. Plant usable lumens are.

and until you get a lumen meter and measure the output at given distances you are just blowing smoke.

look you cant get lumen output without energy. Indoor energy comes from electricity, i.e:watts. No way around it stoney. LEDs claim a lot but i have yet to see a vid on uboob showing a side by side comparison btwn LEDs and HPSs of watts drawn to lumen output, and im not going to waste my money on any MORE unnecessary lighting :rofl:

And nodes and stretching...comon now.

Look at two different strains here. Growing under the same light. I have cut and clone, whacked and chopped the lemon skunk Og18. Have yet to touch the Oatmeal. All in 9+ months. Really. I cant keep the lemon to squat on its nodes and i cant get the oatmeal to stretch; even under 1/2 the light.

The Oatmeals nodes are TOO CLOSE. It wont let itself breathe. Only a top canopy is able to bud. The lemon complete opposite. All in same conditions.

All under the same lights for the same time. Dont believe me look into my old pics and see the lemon stretch and the oatmeal pack nodes. All under 120watts of t8 6500 K. Been this way for almost a year now. Conditions have not changed.

Im not arguing im discussing with you my research findings.




Edit:
Pic1: Lemon left Oatmeal right
2: Lemon up high Oatmeal down low
3: Lemon Mad Stretch
4: Oatmeal Mad nodes.
...all side by side

 

[StoneyBud]

and until you get a lumen meter and measure the output at given distances you are just blowing smoke.

look you cant get output without energy. Indoor energy comes from electricity, i.e:watts. No way around it stoney.

And nodes and stretching...comon now.

You and I disagree on many things about how we both end up with quality bud. I guess you and I will just have to agree to disagree.

No biggie man. I think you're wrong and you think I'm wrong.

That's life.

Peace to you man. I wish you only happiness and a full life.

I think it's pretty pointless to continue discussing it. We've both made our statements about our interpretations of the physics involved.

 

[OGKushman]

ok

eace:


here :48: smoke?

 

[StoneyBud]

ok eace:here :48: smoke?

Thanks, back atcha:

:48:

 

[rotten_socks420]

Wow, intense discussion right there, im in a hurry to go some were but I had to finish reading that... lol i need to hit a bong now

 

[Ranek Icewalker]

I like cake.

 

[Locked]

i Like turtles......youtu.be/CMNry4PE93Y

 

[prefersativa]

I've been using T5 floros for vegging and a 600w hps for flower. I live south of most of the continental US, just so you understand my conditions. My flower tent was starting to run well over 90 degress F, so retired the 600 for summer and fired up the old 400w HPS for the summer months. Just to see how things work, I picked up a 120w LED from the local HTGSuppy store. So, I will see for myself if a LED and a T5 do equally well for vegging. The T5 has new bulbs, so that shouldn't be a factor. And I can't imagine that 10 watts difference will make for very different results. If the LED grows in veg like I've been led to believe, then I intend to try it in combo with the 400w hps to flower. A friend uses this setup and gets results very close to my 600w hps for flowering purposes.

 

[Roddy]

shhhh.....you'll anger the LED haters!

 

[StoneyBud]

...I picked up a 120w LED...will see for myself if a LED and a T5 do equally well for vegging. If the LED grows in veg like I've been led to believe, then I intend to try it in combo with the 400w hps to flower.

If you keep very good canopy control and the LEDs are kept within 4 inches of the very even canopy, then the LEDs would do great on thier own during vegging. Adding more light is always better to a point.

LST, LST, LST and more LST. With LEDs, its extremely important to keep your canopy as even as a golf green. The best throw of any LED I've heard of is 18" max. Beyond that, it won't do anything for you. More than 4 inches from the tops and its effectiveness drops like a lead balloon.

I'm almost ready to start my second vegging with nothing but LEDs. I think this one will even be better than the last.

For flowering...I can't say. I haven't tried it yet.

 

[SmashedbyHashish]

Been haveing trouble w/ bleaching & then after so long it will kill them. When I first got my 290w led I put it to close & really bleached some seedlings I had. Since then I put 3 mature plants in there that are flowering, the lite is 24" above the plants & it still started to bleach my colossus auto flower. Auto marie & #1 super auto love it though. Just wanted to get some imput from you all. Thanx in advance!

 

[StoneyBud]

Been haveing trouble w/ bleaching & then after so long it will kill them. When I first got my 290w led I put it to close & really bleached some seedlings I had. Since then I put 3 mature plants in there that are flowering, the lite is 24" above the plants & it still started to bleach my colossus auto flower. Auto marie & #1 super auto love it though. Just wanted to get some imput from you all. Thanx in advance!

There is no way LEDs did anything to your plants at 24" from them, or even at 6". Something else was causing your problems.

When you say "Bleaching", exactly what is it you mean? Do you have any pics of it?

Lighting, by itself, is not going to make any plant a lighter color. If that is happening to you, then nutrients, water, pH or heat is doing it. No way LEDs are.

 

[babysnakess]

I have seen some led grows were the light actually turned the tips of the plants white.

 

[Roddy]

This can't be good....