MG Organic Choice Soil, ....."EDIT"

[MootPointBlank]

For a couple of weeks now I've been pouring over all of the plant problem troubleshooters to try and figure out why my babies are steadily starting to die. With the exception of certain maladies, the symptoms are undifferentiable. So, please, if anyone knows what's happening, there isn't much time left. Below is what I've got and what I've tried to do to fix it.

Bag seed from mids in 7cm clay pots.
MG Organic Choice Soil (N 0.1, P 0.05, K 0.05)
Blue Mountain Organics Ferts (Mix to spec in 1gal carbon filt./Ozonated water)
-Grow it Green (5,2,5)
-Super Plant Tonic (micro beasties)
Under two, 4' 32W Phillips cool white fluoros; set within an inch of tops. 18on/6off.
Room temps run from low to high 70'sF.
Ceiling fan on low speed, reverse rotation 24hrs.
Using ferts once a week and ultra pure bottled water (Penta) every other day as soil dries out.

Ok, so the Penta may be a little overkill, but I needed to make sure I wasn't adding anything that shouldn't be there; and nothing's too good for my babies. Anyway, they're about a month old and anywhere from 2"-6" tall now and from the bottom up on all of them the lower leaves are turning pale yellow starting from the tips and moving toward the stems. Three of the six have tips steadily turning brown and curling upward before dying. The browning starts as blackish or dark grey spotting. All of the stems are red/purple in the region of the leaf nodes.
The various deficiency guides led me to believe that I wasn't fertilising at all because these signs apparently represent NPK shortages in general. What the fun am I supposed to do with that when I know that I'm ferting with 5-2-5? The next possibility seemed to be a Mg deficiency, so I followed the guides, which vary anywhere from .25tsp/gal to 1tblsp/gal Epsom! Erring on the side of too little I went with .25tsp/gal and amended at the next watering. No change, still dying. I kept researching and it seemed like it could be Ph lockout, so I ran out and bought a simple soil Ph meter and I'm at about 6.5 which is splendid by most standards.
The tops are lush and perfect although growing at a much slower rate than what I've experienced in the past. I'll post pics soon as I get my camera back. Thanks and much kudos for any insight you may have to offer.

MPB

 

[4u2sm0ke]

I believe that MG has nute release in it and you have nute locked your plants.. month old and only 6 inches tal? we need pics as well..you are going to need to post some to get some real help..and what is the space..or is it a room? sounds so with ceiling fan..thanks for shareing and good luck

 

[blancolighter]

Also those lights are totally unsuitable for growing, if you wanna continue usuing that type of fluoro, at least get the plant growing or sunlight type from home depot or soemthin. This prolly isn't the problem, as 4u2smoke pointed out, you have grossely overferted a small plant that even at this age, still needs no additional nutes.
however, if your plants make it out of this nute problem, they won't make it much longer under those lights....

 

[Lemmongrass]

your ph meter sucks. your ph is actually +/-1 and is doing what you suspected.

I had everything you listed. slow as hell growth, every deff listed on the intrawebs, death, all the odd ****.

i had a soil meter that said 6.5 but when i measured my water it was 7.4 with nutes added! i also figured out that if i used the hot water tap and made a bath of 100F or so water mixed the nutes and let it sit, that it actually had an acidity of 5.4.

This totally screwed me up until i bought an aquarium drop test to use on my water and runoff. my water had a latent pH swing of 2000 times variability... depending on what temp i let it sit at it had a range of 5.4-7.4. i didnt know this until a week after i had been testing it correctly. i was usign cold water and had to use all kinds of pHDOWN and crap to get it to 6ish(soil runoff was 7 so i needed it down fast and they were so shocked already it didnt matter).

Jump to yesterday. i had to add 50ml of pHUP to 5gal of water cause i mixed it hot and the test came up yellowy orange and not green. which i do every time now that i use hot water thats cooled to ambient. works amazing.

 

[MootPointBlank]

I always overdo it. So, I should purge the soil with distilled and leave them alone for a while?

4u2smoke:
Pics are coming tonight. Space is in third bedroom converted into workshop.

blancolighter:
Closet contains custom cabinet with separate veg/flower chambers under 400w MH and HPS. Not using them right now because I'm still addressing heat issues. Hoping the fluoros will suffice till then.

lotek:
Meter is indeed a piece of sh*t, but I wanted at least a ballpark idea. Still looking into good quality EC and Ph meters, though haven't made my mind up yet. Expensive too.

Thanks all for the fast response. Not the end of the world if these go down as they are a process test for the good genetics I will be using later. It just always saddens me to see them suffer; and I don't take failure well.

MPB

 

[blancolighter]

A ph drop kit costs 6 bucks and you can get em at any garden supply store and at some pet stores in the aquarium section. (garden stores susually have the type you're after though) The Ph meter you have is just as damaging as not having one at all (I too have been there). You're not even going to get a ballpark idea with it, but it's already tricked you into thinking you have. Trust us, break that pieace of crap in half and go buy a ph drop kit right now. Its one of the best things you can do for your grow right now.

As far as flushing your soil right now, thats the problem with MG soils, you can't really flush em, as the more water they get, the more nutes they release. You can try it out and maybe it will ge rid of the excess nutes you put in, but who knows.

I told you about the fluoros for a reason, the ones you have suck. Its only another 6 bucks to get some proper ones, and it's gonna be a solid investment in your future grows as you will need a good fluoro light that wont burn up your seedlings and/or clones (like the 400 watters). With the lights you have now, I'm betting you plant is hard pressed to make photosynthesis occur.

Best case scenario is that with your improper ph, you locked out all the excess nutes you gave your plants, and flushing will get rid of a good portion of them. Then regular phed water will start getting em back on their feet along with the new fluoros I recommended.

 

[4u2sm0ke]

:yeahthat:

 

[CasualGrower]

For Vegging your plants under Floros, Get the tubes Marked DAYLIGHT Spectrum, or 6500K....

 

[tcbud]

Sounds like you over nuted them. I never add nutes till they are about a month old. Your soil should have provided enough nutes as it was. Some plants are less forgiving than others. I grew some mango last year that would get nute burn at the drop of a ....hum.... liquid nutrients hat? Good luck.

 

[Lemmongrass]

^^^^^All of the above!

i didnt break my meter. i use the moisture setting cause it is accurate enough to be worth not tearing my roots up and using it.

the light meter is semi accurate too. it works well enough to tell where the lumen drop off curve is.

My best use for it tho is to stir nutes in my water pot lol. the little prongs don't splash.

also. be sure to let your water sit. i use a 5gal Al stock pot from the kitchen and an empty coffee plastic can to fill it. only thing i have to remember is to not put caustic or acidic chemicals in before the water cause of the Al.

 

[MootPointBlank]

I flushed them thoroughly with deionized water and set the lights to run all night. The only reason I'm using soil this time around is because I don't have the hydro setup complete. I'm hoping that I can get these to veg long enough to take clones in order to sex. If I can learn the process successfully I'll use the good genetics.

On another note; I plan on using the BMO ferts, mentioned earlier, in the hydro setup. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

Again, much thanks for your support,

MPB

 

[tcbud]

Just a side note, are you letting those plants get kinda dry in the soil before you water? Not totally dry, but not keeping the plants real wet all the time is a good idea. Watering every three days is bout what I am doing with seedlings a little smaller than what you have there. I have mine in four inch pots tho. Over watering can be a real problem.

 

[MootPointBlank]

Just a side note, are you letting those plants get kinda dry in the soil before you water? Not totally dry, but not keeping the plants real wet all the time is a good idea. Watering every three days is bout what I am doing with seedlings a little smaller than what you have there. I have mine in four inch pots tho. Over watering can be a real problem.

Yep, every 48hrs seems to be the limit that I've found. Any longer and they start to droop. I'm sure this is a symptom of using such small pots (2.76") as well. I plan on mixing in some vermiculite when I repot, as I've noticed the soil tends to compress over time. It concerns me that its natural tendency to become compacted will effect aeration and draining.

Thanks,
MPB

 

[PencilHead]

Using ferts once a week and ultra pure bottled water (Penta) every other day as soil dries out.

Even in small pots, those beauties seem small for every other day H2O. So far, the hardest thing for me to do in this sport is to leave my stuff alone. MJ loves to dry out; new growers don't. Try some bigger pots.

 

[Lemmongrass]

Ya know im with conehead, transplant those. thats only a couple ounces of dirt for a multi node plant?

I bet that also had something to do with it. that many nutes+unbalanced pH being added to a plant who's roots are in a volume of dirt in which the water must just flush onto the roots.

those are working on their 4th node. i just fimmed my 5th node and my plants are 4 times the visual volume of that in 8" pots. I started my first crop stupidly in those plastic 3x2 plug things flowers come in. they looked just liek that. a month old and tiny tight little palm trees. i had 11 nodes on an 8th inch stem under 7" tall. they were the same plants i talked about in my earlier post with the ph probs and stuff. you wont be able to go form that small of a pot to a 3gal bucket either. i tried to and the root mass was so tight and fragile that they couldnt oxygenate the dirt after watering and they got even worse. you will need to xplant into 6" or 8" pots for 3-4 weeks before you move into a 3gal. i wasted an extra 2 weeks cause i had to figure out about the oxygen the hard way.

 

[MootPointBlank]

Just wanted to post an update on what I've done and how things are going.

Picked up some supplies. Repotted in 8" plastic pots using 6parts Earthgro organic soil : 1part MG Perlite : 2parts shredded Sphag. Peat moss. Lined the bottom of each pot with perlite before adding soil. Watered with distilled.

Checked on what fluoros I'm using: Philips Daylight Deluxe 32W T8.

They're doing MUCH better. Yellowing stopped and leaves have returned to uniform, lush green except where damage was too severe. Noticeable new growth at tops and activity at bud sites. Soil still seems moist from initial watering.

Whence I get this heat issue sorted out in the grobox, we'll see what they do under the MH.

Thanks again, everyone. You've really helped me to take a big step forward on the learning curve. I'm sure you'll be hearing from me again as soon as I botch my first attempt at hydro.

MPB

 

[Lemmongrass]

Very happy to hear it man!

 

[SmokinAce]

mg organic works fine for me....
MG Organic Choice Soil (N 0.1, P 0.05, K 0.05)
only problem was the damn gnats that came with it....
peat moss holds too much water for me....

have fun....

 

[MootPointBlank]

Well, folks it's been a long ride. Ended up with four, bud producing girls in late flowering. They are spindly, little popcorn nugs that I allowed to be pollinated by all of the hermie pollen floating around just to see if I could make some feminised seeds and a little middy bud to smoke. I think I learned what I needed to from them and got some clones as well. Watch my journal as this project evolves. After I get the basics down, I plan on exploring deep into experimental techniques to discover what this plant is capable of. MPB