Tent/LED question

[oldfogey8]

i have a 4 ft tall tent. i have grown 3 times using t5's and some cfls. i lst the plants to keep them short and i think vegging under 10000 kelvin t5's helps keep them short. i get pretty ok yeilds for me. last harvest was about 10 oz's total off of 2 thai plants(prolly would have been 12 if i was patient and waited long enough on the first plant i chopped). i have grown some indica dominant strains and had fairly dense buds but i am thinking of flowering under leds after seeing some awesome results here. i have read that about 24" is a good height to have the leds above the canopy. my plants have been close to that give or take including the pots. how much wiggle room is there as far as distance from the canopy goes? i don't think i can go with hps as i think the heat would be a problem. leds are supposed to be cooler but are they cool enough for a shorter tent with very little room for raising the lights? will the buds tend to be a lot more dense that with t5's? too many questions? a couple of you have chimed in on another post about this but i just wanted to see if anyone had any experience pushing the envelope so to speak. thanks.

of8

 

[P Jammers]

i have a 4 ft tall tent. i have grown 3 times using t5's and some cfls. i lst the plants to keep them short and i think vegging under 10000 kelvin t5's helps keep them short. i get pretty ok yeilds for me. last harvest was about 10 oz's total off of 2 thai plants(prolly would have been 12 if i was patient and waited long enough on the first plant i chopped). i have grown some indica dominant strains and had fairly dense buds but i am thinking of flowering under leds after seeing some awesome results here. i have read that about 24" is a good height to have the leds above the canopy. my plants have been close to that give or take including the pots. how much wiggle room is there as far as distance from the canopy goes? i don't think i can go with hps as i think the heat would be a problem. leds are supposed to be cooler but are they cool enough for a shorter tent with very little room for raising the lights? will the buds tend to be a lot more dense that with t5's? too many questions? a couple of you have chimed in on another post about this but i just wanted to see if anyone had any experience pushing the envelope so to speak. thanks.

of8

I wish there was a very simple answer, but I'll take a stab for you.

As far as heat goes, the light that is given off is not hot, so that is not really a concern when we are taking the two feet. It's more about proper spectrum blending from say a standard 3 watt diode using either a lens or reflector type of fixture.

The real heat come from the fans blowing air across a heat sink or heat sinks. This heat also rids some moisture in the air keeping RH levels a lil lower as a whole allowing a little ore heat without the added moisture in the air. A tent will still need to be properly vented and as long as you have proper air exchange, a LED fixture should work out properly sized for the area.

That said, the two feet is based on a HIGH END, LED fixture and will not apply to the lower, or mid-range fixtures. It also does not apply to a light say running a lens at 120 degrees as you can get down to about 16" and still be in there so that is also a consideration when purchasing a high end light.

If heat at all is going to be a concern, I'd suggest staying away from 5watt LED chip sets. I feel they will be a fad, and in a copycat business, not many are playing follow the leader in that direction, and 3 watt chipsets are adequate. They run way hotter at the same wattage at 3 watt chip sets.

LED vs T5 won't even be a contest. Flower will be far more developed, and more dense and overall just way more happy. They will also look like they finish instead of the white hairs that just keep coming on with T5 systems in flower.

Wiggle room will completely depend on what you decide to go with.

I'll close by adding Good LED's are not cheap, and cheap LED's are not good. The in between are great if you're growing for quality over quantity.

PS, if your considering LED's, I'd also consider getting a taller tent. 4 feet is tough for any light keeping it real.

Best of luck!

 

[oldfogey8]

thanks for the info p jam. i was contemplating a fixture rosebud posted a link to in a post. it isn't cheap but i would like to up my game so to speak. i figure if i do this a little at a time, my wife is less likely to bust my balls about it. i am very interested in quality over quantity. i grow more than i can smoke and share as it is with my t5 setup. i guess i need more friends that smoke...

here is the link at any rate...
http://www.topledgrowlight.com/refle...ht-144x3w.html

 

[oldfogey8]

would the above fixture be overkill for my 4 ft x 2 ft space as it says it covers 6.6 x 2.2 ft? i am assuming that 144 x 3 means 144 leds at 3 watts each so that is 432 watts. does that mean it is approx equivalent to a 432 watt hps lamp? the fixture says 90/120 degree led view angle. do you think that is a range? 120 is more spread out i would think. they also have a 96 x 3 fixture. there is a review of someone who shay they used it in a 4 ft tent so i am thinking that might be a better option for me because of cost, power consumption and coverage area. i know there are a bunch of variables and such but i appreciate as much input from you folks as i can get. thanks again.

 

[MR1]

PJ, don't knock the 5w lights yet, mine is still working as good as the day I bought it and it does not run to hot, I cool my tent with a cheap duct booster fan with a filter on the end.

 

[yooper420]

Check out the Advanced Diamond Series LED`s. On grow #6 with mine, love `em.

 

[oldfogey8]

thanks for the recommendation yooper. i am kind of trying to sneak this purchase in to the family finances. a couple hundred bucks i can do. 500 is a bit out of my price range. i know the old adage is you get what you pay for but i can't justify it at this point in my life.

 

[P Jammers]

would the above fixture be overkill for my 4 ft x 2 ft space as it says it covers 6.6 x 2.2 ft? i am assuming that 144 x 3 means 144 leds at 3 watts each so that is 432 watts. does that mean it is approx equivalent to a 432 watt hps lamp? the fixture says 90/120 degree led view angle. do you think that is a range? 120 is more spread out i would think. they also have a 96 x 3 fixture. there is a review of someone who shay they used it in a 4 ft tent so i am thinking that might be a better option for me because of cost, power consumption and coverage area. i know there are a bunch of variables and such but i appreciate as much input from you folks as i can get. thanks again.

Stay with the 144 x 3 for sure. While it has 432 watts of LED's installed, It only runs 264 watts which is about 100 watts under where I like a light that size to be at it's coverage. I would class this brand of light as middle of the road. It will grow just fine, but yield will suffer. A great "starter" light for someone wanting to see the tech.

PJ, don't knock the 5w lights yet, mine is still working as good as the day I bought it and it does not run to hot, I cool my tent with a cheap duct booster fan with a filter on the end.

I am not knocking them. I made a few factual comments and while they may not be too hot for you, it is fact they run MUCH hotter than 3 watt diodes and provide ZERO benefit over 3 watt, another fact.

 

[MR1]

I have seen the readings between the 3 watt lights and the 5 watt lights, there seems to be a benefit to the 5watt.

 

[P Jammers]

I have seen the readings between the 3 watt lights and the 5 watt lights, there seems to be a benefit to the 5watt.

Well how bout you post it up for all to see. You know what they say about opinions.

I've already posted a facts sheet on this site on this very subject.

Here is an article to back it up written by a PhD.EE, not to be mistaken by Stoner Bob who says otherwise...

In a quest to find the best LED grow lights, I came across the question of which is better, 1w vs. 3w vs 5w diodes. I first started researching the history of LED grow lights and then compared different models of lights with varying diode sizes. My research led me to the following analysis.
LED grow lights have come a long way since the 13 watt panels consisting of 225 diodes each drawing one eight to one sixteenth of a watt of power. Those 15 row by 15 column panels were not able to grow much of anything except simple grasses and sprouts, and did not even do that very well. Those initial cheap panels gave LED grow lights a bad name for years until stronger diodes became readily available. I am surprised that these 225 diode models are still being sold today.
Shortly thereafter, LED grow light manufacturers starting using 1 & 2 watt diodes in LED growlights. The larger wattage diodes provided a great improvement over the smaller diodes. They were able to penetrate a plant’s canopy three to four feet. Although this amount of penetration sufficed for most growers, the commercial growing segment of the indoor growing market needed a plant grow light that could reach down an extra foot or two to the bottom of the plants.
In 2009, many LED grow light manufacturers starting using 3 watt diodes in their grow lights. The 3 watt diode provided the ideal balance of canopy penetration without being plagued with heat issues that come with larger diodes. With 3 watt diodes, a grow light was able to penetrate up to 5 feet past the plant’s canopy and was the perfect design being demanded by the indoor growing market.
Shortly after 3 watt diode light were introduced, clever marketers started manufacturing indoor grow lights with 5 watt, 10 watt and even larger diodes. On the surface this seems to be natural progression for grow light strength, but the LED grow lights with the larger diodes have some very critical drawbacks. The first issue is that of heat dissipation and density. As the diode size increases, so does the amount of heat that needs to be dissipated by the diode chip. Larger wattage diodes need larger heat sinks to dissipate the heat that they give off. This results in heavier and bulkier lights. Another critical design drawback of the larger diodes is that they can not be packed as densely as the 3 watt designed lights. When using 5 watt or 10 watt diodes, you must space the diodes further apart, again because of the problem of heat dissipation. The result is a less densely packed grow light that is heavier and bulkier.
The biggest drawback of the 5+ watt diodes is their price. Not only do they cost more overall, but they are also more expensive on a $/watt and $/ growing area covered basis. A quick analysis shows that it is not worth paying a premium to have larger diodes in LED grow lights. The added penetration is superfluous and unnecessary for indoor growers and it comes at a burdensome cost – increased price and less densely packed network of diodes.
Bigger is not always better. When it comes to the question of 3 watt vs 5 watt diodes for LED grow lights, the 3 watt diode is the smarter choice for any indoor growing project.
Ehud Muhlev, PhD. EE​

 

[MR1]

I remember you posting that info , I remember replying to you that none of those statements applied to my light, I did say my light had some weight to it but easily manageable. I am not going to repeat it here , you can go back and check if you like.
I will see if I can find the info I mentioned.

 

[MR1]

A couple videos for all to see, and decide for themselves.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6agylshUdb0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6agylshUdb0[/ame][ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymt1XCCu-RM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymt1XCCu-RM[/ame]

 

[P Jammers]

I remember you posting that info , I remember replying to you that none of those statements applied to my light, I did say my light had some weight to it but easily manageable. I am not going to repeat it here , you can go back and check if you like.
I will see if I can find the info I mentioned.

What do you mean does not apply to your light? It's 5 watt is it not?
lol

That is a different article I believe. There are several of them that have been done by people that actually have the proper equipment for doing proper testing.

You will be hard pressed to find anything that will say otherwise when it comes to 3 watt vs 5 watt in the LED industry currently that is backed by Scientific data.

Trust me when I say I make it my business to know what is going on in the industry. I think eventually we'll see even smaller diodes than 3 watt performing even better results using COB technology.

At that point, 5 watt LED's will be a thing of the past. No way to compete with spectrum blending which is a lot more important than the watt of said diode. 150 watts of 1 watt diodes is the same as 150 watts of 3 watt, and the same as 150 watts of 5 watt diodes. Its still 150 watts no matter how you get there. The main difference is heat, but that creates all kinds of other issues.

If you want to see LED's come down to where everyone will be able to afford them, you should hope 5 watt LED's fail. It's inevitable...

In any event, not to hijack but just a bit of info for every reader to be able to use their own judgement.

I am super stoked you enjoy your light MR1, but when it comes to recommending lights I look at things in a logical sense based on as much scientific data as I have in front of me, and I certainly won't recommend something solely based on just because I own it.
:48:

 

[MR1]

Those statements don't apply to my light because they are untrue. Remember I did not recommend any lights to anyone , I just corrected a false statement . Those videos are pretty common sense, even a stoner like me can understand them.

 

[oldfogey8]

not to be a henry kissenger or anything but it looks like from both of your past posts, you both know what you are doing and grow some really nice buds. i appreciate as much info as i can get. i like the scientific evidence as well as the anecdotal evidence. some day i may be in the market to purchase high end stuff for larger grows but at this point, i am a small fish and just grow for my enjoyment(i almost enjoy the growing as much or more than the smoking - i find it relaxing). thanks again for both of your input. i find it valuable.

 

[oldfogey8]

i can't keep up with what i grow under my weak, crappy setup. i am more looking to improve the quality though i don't know why as i can't smoke more than a few tokes a couple of times a day or i am useless as t5's in a flower tent so to speak . i am toying with getting one of the smaller fixtures from top led grow that rosebud posted about.

 

[MR1]

Oldfogey, I thought you did great with your t5 grow, people really like their reflector led lights, and are getting excellent results.

 

[oldfogey8]

thanks for the kind words but doing ok with a t5 grow is far different from growing masterpieces. i hope to get there someday. i am thinking of restarting my tent in a month or so(actually i would like to today but i am practicing restraint )...