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Unusual shape plants, what causes this?

WIDOW LOVER

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Hey guys, I have 2 plants that aren't growing symmetrical. In the past this meant they were male or hermies. Any ideas on what I should do with them?

Indoor,
Soil: Foxfarm Ocean and light warrior mix
Seed: White Widow from a hermie...
age 2 months
Problem: started with Miracle Grow Organic soil and plants were slow and stunted, transplanted from 1 gal to 2 gal and Foxfarm soil... now growing like crazy but still deformed
No other problems noticed
They look like the new branches grow only one per side instead of two opposing... then the next new branch grows at 1/3 offset... one at 12 o'clock, next at 4 o'clock and next at 8 o'clock.
The plant also tends to lean towards the direction of the newest branch growth even though I rotate daily away from the light.

Oh yeah, light: 400 HPS about 8 inches from top...
I recently added humidity from 31% to 55% and room temps at 77F
These 2 plants are tall and really want the light! The problem is my beautiful females are much shorter and might not be close enough...

Any ideas are appreciated!!!

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Lemon Jack

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They look stretched somewhat. It just looks like alt nodes. What is the light schedule on them right now?
I can't tell from the pic do you see any male flowers? If so chuck em but not till you see them. . . however its not a very good idea to start with hermie seed IMO. You could potentially waste alot of time.
 

WIDOW LOVER

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Thanks Lemon Jack, they are stretched because of the initial stress and age. I have them on light 24/7. No male flowers yet on these two. I agree about the questionable seed but it was my only option...
PuffinNugs, I think you are right about growth patterns determining sex but how many of these alternating nodes plants turn out? What kind of crop size compared to a 'perfect' plant?
I guess I have to guess... These 2 are freaks and I have 3 that are perfect... Maybe I should top these 2 and wait...
 

Lemon Jack

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The alt nodes are normal that is what tell your a plant is sexually mature. It happens on nearly all mj plants.

A "perfect plant" would be someones opinion it depends on your style of growing.
 
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They are really quite stretched with very few bud sites. If you are using a 400W light, something is wrong with your space. You should have some tight internodes, but you do not. Raise your other plants on boxes or something to have an even canopy.
 

Hushpuppy

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The triple leaf pattern that you are talking about is a genetic anomoly that occurs sometimes. It doesn't mean anything nor is it detrimental to the plant to my knowledge. Because of the tri-branching (there is an actual name for it but I can't remember at the moment) and the fact that it has become sexually mature, the nodes(branches) are alternating and the two together cause it to look weird, but its not a problem.

If you grow enough plants you will see all kinds of genetic anomolies that cause variations. I had a plant a few grows back that grew buds in a couple of the leaf centers. It looked really cool.

You definitely look underlit for good growth. You need to get them in an enclosed space to trap in all of the lumens being put out by the HPS, and with good ventilation to keep them breathing well. If the other plants have alternating nodes, you could put them straight into flower at this point and within a week or two you will see who's boys or girls.

I also noticed that the one plant looks like the leaves are forming claws with the tips of the fronds curling down, that is most likely from too much nutrients from the last soil that you had them in. You have to be really careful with the nutes. You want to give them all that they need but not too much or they start to burn.
 

WIDOW LOVER

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Thanks Hushpuppy and everyone for the feedback!
Here is what I found... I took out my magnifying glass and checked all 9 plants. Currently 5 are definitely female and 4 are unknown. The 2 plants I was concerned about are in the unknown. I will top one of them tonight (for height control) and give a couple more days to sex for sure. I am pretty sure these 2 are either male, intersex, or hermy. In any case, they are going outside after sex is confirmed. I remember that these 2 seeds came from a hermy over 2 years ago so the chance of success was already low.
Here is a breeder question... If I save male pollen and introduce it to a single female flower for seed purposes, which plant characteristics will the seeds have? Example: I have a known female White Widow flower and an unknown (strain) male pollen... Will the seeds be WW or unknown??? If unknown then a waste of time for me...
Thanks again guys! I really love this forum and wish I knew about it for my last 6 crops a few years ago...
 

Hick

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WIDOW LOVER said:
Thanks Hushpuppy and everyone for the feedback!
Here is what I found... I took out my magnifying glass and checked all 9 plants. Currently 5 are definitely female and 4 are unknown. The 2 plants I was concerned about are in the unknown. I will top one of them tonight (for height control) and give a couple more days to sex for sure. I am pretty sure these 2 are either male, intersex, or hermy. In any case, they are going outside after sex is confirmed. I remember that these 2 seeds came from a hermy over 2 years ago so the chance of success was already low.
Here is a breeder question... If I save male pollen and introduce it to a single female flower for seed purposes, which plant characteristics will the seeds have? Example: I have a known female White Widow flower and an unknown (strain) male pollen... Will the seeds be WW or unknown??? If unknown then a waste of time for me...
Thanks again guys! I really love this forum and wish I knew about it for my last 6 crops a few years ago...
Ahhh.. if only it were that easy...:eek:
Lotsa good stickies here ---> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=45

hxxp://www.hobart.k12.in.us/jkousen/Biology/mendel.htm <-- a rather 'concise' answer to your basic question :)
 
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WIDOW LOVER said:
Here is a breeder question... If I save male pollen and introduce it to a single female flower for seed purposes, which plant characteristics will the seeds have? Example: I have a known female White Widow flower and an unknown (strain) male pollen... Will the seeds be WW or unknown??? If unknown then a waste of time for me...
The short answer is that there is no way to know what you are going to get when you cross 2 strains, especially when you have a male of unknown lineage and stability.
 

Dunge

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I have this same alternating growth off ALL my clones from two vastly different moms that I reveged after a summer outside.
The cuttings are growing slowly and I'm watching to see if the nodes pair up over time.
It causes the stem to zig zag, but otherwise seems benign.
 
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Dunge said:
I have this same alternating growth off ALL my clones from two vastly different moms that I reveged after a summer outside.
The cuttings are growing slowly and I'm watching to see if the nodes pair up over time.
It causes the stem to zig zag, but otherwise seems benign.
And you SHOULD have alternating nodes on ALL your clones (you might want to read up a bit more on the biology of the plant). The nodes will not pair up after time, nor are they supposed to. Immature plants have paired up nodes. The plant develops alternating nodes as it matures. Since clones are the same biological age as the mother they came from, they have alternating nodes and will not again grow nodes directly opposite from one another.

The stems are zigzagging because there is so much stretch--IMO, you have far too much space between the nodes. This gives you less bud sites and ultimately less bud. I would recommend trying to figure out why your clones are stretching so much. A 400W should be giving you a lot closer internodal spacing unless your space is too large.
 

WIDOW LOVER

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Thanks everyone for the help. My plants are doing well now!
Progress report... Of the 2 freaks I had, 1 was male and the other is doing ok... female, unknown seed. A bit scraggly but adding a second 400W HPS tomorrow.
As for the others, 5 white widows, 1 AK47 and 1 WW that was a male until I chopped it's lower growth off. I only wanted 1 flower for pollinating 1 WW flower. This plant turned into a female after I chopped it... LOL! I am keeping it hoping that I get one male flower.
I switched to flower mode Nov 16th. Check out pics and lemme know what ya think.

Probably NOT a widow.jpg


male widow turned female after chop.jpg


scraggly widow.jpg


scraggly widow2.jpg


big widow.jpg


widow2.jpg


nice widow.jpg


nice AK47.jpg
 

Hushpuppy

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Everyone looks to be getting better. The more light and sooner the better. I assume you wamt to produce some seeds with the one male that you are keeping? Be careful and watch him every day as they can pop out some pollen pods real quick and dust all the girls before you know it. I would keep him isolated if he isn't now, and maybe keep the one girl to seed with him. green mojo :)
 
E

engneer

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Hi Widowlover. I've had plants that were deformed like that and when I flowered them, they ended up trying to flower, but it almost seemed like they had some kind of "genetic defect" and they never flowered with any vigor.

Now, if I get a plant that is stunted early on, I'll pull it and move on.

I'll be curious to see how your "defective" one finishes.
 

Irish

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are all the ww's from herm seed, or were they clones taken before the mom hermed?
 

HippyInEngland

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Lower leaves are too green, this will hinder flowering.

What feed are they having as from now?

:peace:
 

WIDOW LOVER

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Hey guys...
Hushpuppy: The lights are 2 400w HPS and a 3rd on it's way... they are too big for just 2! The male turned into a female. I know how fast a male can pop his sack! Thanks for the warning...
Engneer: I agree... this one deformed from bag seed should have been plucked early. I had other problems though and did not want to give up on any... next time this won't happen! The deformed one actually is doin ok, but is unknown what kind... One of the WW seeds that started as a male and switched to female is not impressive at all, but she is healthy so I will keep her without blocking the others from the light.
Irish: All of my WW are from seed from Netherlands. The only bag seed is the strange 'hermed' unknown strain... I haven't learned to clone yet... maybe next season.
HippyInEngland: Why do say the lower leaves are too green? My pics may be off color... I am surprised that the lower leaves are still healthy but I don't want to cut off any green leaves unless I have to. Is there a reason why I should thin out the bottom leaves that aren't getting light but are still healthy? They are getting for nutes: 3 teaspoon Foxfarm TigerBloom and 4 tablespoon Foxfarm BigBloom per gallon... 1 gallon feeds all 8 every 3rd day... the other 2 days they get 2 gallons water per day for all 8. They go through this very fast and I flush the soil when I see problems (about every 12 days).
Since my last post, they are growing too damned fast! I have trained all of them. I figure about 3 weeks maybe 4 until harvest... I can't wait!
Thanks for all of your help!!!!

BTW: I am sarting a business here to help the medical marijuana patients and caregivers... I hope to become as wise as many of you so I can properly help!!!
 

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