HELP ON CFL's VERSUS MH, HPS

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hee hee .. I've yet to see "any" scientific evidence. that shows flourescents are more efficient than hid's. That is the issue that "I" was/am addressing. It has been inferred, if not stated, that cfls consume less energy to produce the same amount of light. Simply.. "untrue" and cited proof is listed.
I've agreed with you, that cfls DO have an advantage in "some" applications. But as all of the posts presenting evidence have cited, they are NOT more "efficient".
Where did I say "your" opinion??? .. but "where" did you find the 100% par efficiency of envirolights?.. I find THAT information interesting, as 100% efficiency is (I thought) impossible, at best, improbable.
Please show me where I gave my "opinion". I think it's spellt "ridiculous"
I think it's spelled "spelled".. :p ;)
 
I find THAT information interesting, as 100% efficiency is (I thought) impossible, at best, improbable.

I was under the impression that 6500K is 100% par for vegetive growth. Perhaps all the lighting guides and spectrum charts I've looked at are wrong.

I think it's spelled "spelled"..

Forgive me for my typo. Put an extra "l" in there. It can be either spelt "spelt" or spelled "spelled" ;) (that's a fact)
 
Crying over spelt milk ... now that would be just rediculous :rofl:

:48: Cheers mate !
 
Question answered by Ed Rosenthal on Cannabis Culture.


Recently I learned of a new fluorescent light that uses 125 watts of electricity and produces 8900 lumens. The lights come in two spectrums: full and red.

What is your opinion of these fluorescents?

Duane,
Kent, Washington


These lights are very efficient, high wattage, self-ballasted fluorescent lamps. They come in 90-watt and 125-watt models. The red spectrum has a color temperature of 2700 Kelvin, about the same light as produced by an incandescent bulb, but without the high amount of infrared light that is produced by incandescent bulbs. The full spectrum light is 6700 Kelvin, a blue light similar in color to sunlight at noon in early summer.

The difference between these lamps and most fluorescents is that they deliver a lot of light because they have a higher wattage than ordinary compact fluorescents, which usually use no more than 20 watts.

A 1000-watt HPS lamp delivers about 140,000 lumens initially and a 1000-watt MH lamp delivers about 110,000 lumens. That comes to 140 lumens per watt and 110 lumens per watt, respectively. A 125-watt Envirolite lamp emits about 12,000 lumens, almost 100 lumens per watt. It takes eight 125-watt lamps to make 1,000 watts. Eight Envirolite lamps emit 96,000 lumens. That's roughly 75% the amount emitted by an HPS per watt. However, that's not the full story.

The question is, how much useable light is getting to the plants? Most HPS and MH light is produced in spectrums that the plant does not use or uses relatively inefficiently. Lamps that have been improved for agriculture are only marginally more efficient, but these improvements represent a significant change in the percentage of useable light.

The Envirolite red has a spectrum with a much higher percentage of light in the red spectrum, which is the part of the light that plants use most efficiently for photosynthesis. Incandescent lights also produce a high percentage of light in the red spectrum, but they produce even more infrared light. (Incandescents are very inefficient light producers so they are the most expensive lights you can buy when you figure the cost of electricity.) When plants receive more infrared light than red light they stretch.

Plants use mostly red and blue light to power photosynthesis and use orange, yellow, and green light much less efficiently. One advantage of eight 125-watt lamps rather than a single 1000-watt bulb is that the light is distributed more evenly and there are fewer shadows.

As far as heat is concerned, the energy rating of an appliance, measured in watts, determines the amount of heat that is produced. Eight 120-watt fluorescent units produce almost as much heat as a single 1000-watt HPS lamp. It's just that it is distributed over a larger space. Watt for watt, Envirolite lamps are more expensive than high pressure sodium lights.
 
I was under the impression that 6500K is 100% par for vegetive growth.
....The red spectrum has a color temperature of 2700 Kelvin,.....
The Envirolite red has a spectrum with a much higher percentage of light in the red spectrum, which is the part of the light that plants use most efficiently for photosynthesis.
..soo which is it?..
 
Mind if I chime in?
I think only the sun will ever give 100% PAR.
I personally beleive with Vegatative a MIXED spectrum of BOTH 2700K and 6500K give the best overall results for me.
Now for flower....Flos don't have the intensity that HID produces. Thats why HIDs work out better. The intensity of the light. Able to penetrate further in the canopy.
light produced per watt HID is better. Spectrum Flos are better IMO. But to get the buds...HIDs is the way to go. IMO for flower

But I have been eye balling a 25000K temp flo. Its purple. Haven't seen anyone use it yet tho. Lookin at it looks like it would be perfect for veg. maybe even flower.
http://www.nlites.co.uk/cfl.htm
 
Quote:
I was under the impression that 6500K is 100% par for vegetive growth.

Quote:
....The red spectrum has a color temperature of 2700 Kelvin,.....
The Envirolite red has a spectrum with a much higher percentage of light in the red spectrum, which is the part of the light that plants use most efficiently for photosynthesis.

..soo which is it?..

Both. envirolites come in red 2700K and blue 6500K. He's only talking about the red bulb there.

EDIT : What Ed failed to mention in his comment above, is that the 2700K bulbs are not suitable for flowering, because they lack the power to penetrate the canopy for decent bud production. HPS is still best for flowering.
 
..then we agree?? 6500k is NOT a "100%" efficient spectrum for vegetative growth??
I fall into the "mixed" spectrum crowd, myself, as mutt stated.
"both"..?? you can't say "both" are correct.. mixed "yes", but either or.. not "both" can be 100% Either ed's correct, or you are correct, or neither are.. :p You say different things.
I was under the impression that 6500K is 100% par for vegetive growth.
<-- your statement
The Envirolite red has a spectrum with a much higher percentage of light in the red spectrum, which is the part of the light that plants use most efficiently for photosynthesis.
<--- Ed's statement..
..
 
Taken from envirolite site :

Self Ballasting Lamps &#8211; simple to install & wire

&#8226; 100% PAR in the correct spectrum for growing
&#8226; Generating much less heat than HID Lamps
&#8226; Will not burn your plants or fingers!
&#8226; Energy saving lamps &#8211; lower operating costs
&#8226; High Lumen Output &#8211; directly above plants


Envirolites give your plants full spectrum light between 400 and 700nw &#8211; which means great growth results in all propagation, vegetative or flowering stages and because they do not generate too much heat they can be used directly ( 5 to 6cms ) over plants using Envirolite Reflectors or hung in between plants to give supplementary lighting with our Lamp Hangers.
Genuine Envirolites are available in 125w, 200w and 250w lamps. All models are available in 2 * colours:

*6400K (Kelvin) is a white / blue spectrum lamp, ideal for propagation and vegetative stage growing.

*2700K (Kelvin) is a red spectrum lamp, designed for flowering stage growing.
 
..Ahh, I see. Then Ed's wrong. :)
According to him, the 2700k is the better for vegetative growth, or have totally mis-understood his reply?
 
lowrydergrower775 said:
lol this is getting good ill pull up a chair for this arguement
Please.. a "discussion".. ;)
 
..Ahh, I see. Then Ed's wrong.
According to him, the 2700k is the better for vegetative growth, or have totally mis-understood his reply?

I wouldn't say Ed was wrong Hick, would you ? ;) He just failed to differntiate properly, the differences between both bulbs.
 
POTUS said:
Exactly what I'm saying, thanks. You have over 300 watts of cfls to produce 8,000 less lumens than a 250 watt HPS.

The rest of that lost wattage is heat.

There was never a doubt about the lumens in any of my posts, it's a matter of HEAT, and the truth is my 250w hps was approx. 20-25 degrees HOTTER in the grow area than my 305w of CFLs. Tried and True CFL's are approximately 2" away from the top of the plant without any burns or problems. The white rhinos are veggin in it and love it! No HEAT problems at all.

Sure HPS is more efficient as far as lumen output.

Out of curiousity... everyone should read pages 3 and 4 of alienbait's and I's discussion about color spectrums (graphs, charts, spectral analysisisisisis's) etc. starting on the link below.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18126&page=3&highlight=leds
 
Somebody is wrong, or being misquoted. The way that "I" interpret , ".The red spectrum has a color temperature of 2700 Kelvin,.....
The Envirolite red has a spectrum with a much higher percentage of light in the red spectrum, which is the part of the light that plants use most efficiently for photosynthesis."
is that he is saying the "red" 2700K bulb is the most efficient for growing, photosynthesisi, ect."... THAT is, what he is saying, no?
but "Envirolight" and "you" state the 6500K is 100% efficient for growing.
I wouldn't say Ed was wrong Hick, would you ?
I'm not the one posting contrary information, only attempting to sort it out.
 
I am saying that 6500K is perfect for vegging.
Ed is saying (not clearly) that 2700K is better for flowering.

Both statements are correct. Now if he meant that 2700K is better for veg then he is wrong.

It's just that they are both most efficient during their appropriate intended growth stage.
 
Thats what I was waiting for, to hear you say it. You and envirolight are more knowledgable about spectrums than Ed..
thanks
 
Envirolite are right, Ed is right too. The only information I quoted was by either Ed or Envirolite. They're both saying the same thing !
 

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