HELP ON CFL's VERSUS MH, HPS

[Runbyhemp]

Ok, had my dinner and just lit up a smoke. Well rested now and am back to try and simplify things a bit.

First of all I would like to state 2 scientific facts.

Red light does cause a higher rate of photosynthesis.
Blue light is primarily responsible for vegetative growth or leaf growth.

Now let's look at this chart by Envirolite.

View attachment 48486

As Ed says the 2700K does contain more red light which results in a higher rate of photosynthesis. He is correct. However, we know that a plant needs blue light for leaf and vegative growth. He just did not mention that this bulb was unsuitable for veg.

The 6400K has a more even distribution and there's plenty of blue light there.
Much more suitable for vegative growth. Envirolite are correct.

I hope this makes it easier for people to understand how both, are in fact, correct.

Never, anywhere, did I state that anybody was wrong.

Peace RBH.

 

[Bren]

can enny one tell me would two 1000 w hps be good for a 12ft by 12 room been growing two years now i have the permit to grow the card

 

[THE Roseman]

I can say with absolute certainty that CFLs vs HIDs is the most frequent arguement that I've seen on any Grow website. It creates more arguements than SOIL vs HYDRO in my humble opinion.

 

[Mutt]

Red light does cause a higher rate of photosynthesis.
Blue light is primarily responsible for vegetative growth or leaf growth.

Seems to me Ed needs to be more "clear" on his writing...oh and BTW Ed is great n all but he is not infallable.
Photosynthesis is happening through the entire grow not just in flower. So if by this statement then MIXED spectrum is what you want. BOTH the 2700K AND the 6500K. If Red causes a HIGHER rate of photosynthesis then it would be MORE beneficial to have BOTH bulbs through enitre grow.

http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookPS.html#Leaves%20and%20Leaf%20Structure

 

[Runbyhemp]

So if by this statement then MIXED spectrum is what you want.

Not essential for veg period Mutt coz the 6400K has red in there, but if flowering with CFL it is essential to mix bulbs

 

[md.apothecary]

Not essential for veg period Mutt coz the 6400K has red in there, but if flowering with CFL it is essential to mix bulbs

I don't find that to be true... here is the ACTUAL color spectrum for CFL's in general. No one read the thread I told them to read on color spectrums and WHAT MARIJUANA NEEDS to grow.

Envirolites diagrams are probably non-plant specific.

2700k CFL spectrum

6500k CFL spectrum

go back a few posts and read mine with the thread. I can't repost those pictures for some reason because of the way that MP is setup with attachments and photos.

2700k CFLs have enough aqua and blue spectrum to flower just fine without supplementing 6500k

EDIT: Remember, plants do NOT see GREEN spectrum lights! So ignore the green. Really, if you take GREEN out of the spectrum, you are essentially removing a lot of blue. Because yellow/blue do make up the greens, and theoretically, your REDS,yellow, oranges are what is the focus. Seriously... look into it yourself, don't go by what some guy named ED said...

who's ed? ed's dead baby... ed's dead.... (little ZED spin off of PF)

BTW, this is the EXACT experiment I am working on right now... 6500k vs 2700k grows start to finish to compare which is REALLY better first hand.

 

[trillions of atoms]

Seems to me Ed needs to be more "clear" on his writing...oh and BTW Ed is great n all but he is not infallable.
Photosynthesis is happening through the entire grow not just in flower. So if by this statement then MIXED spectrum is what you want. BOTH the 2700K AND the 6500K. If Red causes a HIGHER rate of photosynthesis then it would be MORE beneficial to have BOTH bulbs through enitre grow.



of course!

thats true but this is an arguement one or the other....

 

[Runbyhemp]

I don't find that to be true... here is the ACTUAL color spectrum for CFL's in general. No one read the thread I told them to read on color spectrums and WHAT MARIJUANA NEEDS to grow.

I have indeed read it md. I have read all of Alienbaits threads with great interest.

here is the ACTUAL color spectrum for CFL's in general

Envirolites diagrams are probably non-plant specific.

2 Words in your statements bother me md; "in general" and "probably"

Prove to me how your diagram is right and Envirolites is wrong. I have no problem accepting that I am wrong, and would even embrace it, if it meant I was more knowledgeable for it.

2700k CFLs have enough aqua and blue spectrum to flower just fine without supplementing 6500k

Anything I have read reccommends mixing CFL's for flowering. Anyway, CFL don't cut it for flowering. It just doesn't have the power to penetrate the canopy for decent bud production .Stick to HPS. Hope your experiments work out md.

6500K is more comparable to Metal Halide than 2700K because it contains more blue, and Metal Halide has always been traditionally used for veg even over HPS. Wonder why ?

Here's a pic of plants I have grown solely under 6500K envirolites. They are 4 weeks old.

View attachment 48612

thats true but this is an arguement one or the other....

Not too sure what you mean there trillion, perhaps you could expand. For a start this is a discussion, not an argument.

 

[Hick]

Runby'.. I owe you an apology. I set you up for that.
But I do enjoy our discussions, and do appreciate youre ability and willingness to share your thoughts, theories, experiences in an articulate manner.
I actually agree more with you than I do with Ed's statement, on color spec's. I get satisfactory growth with the hps, and since I primarily cultivate clones, I don't need the blue that "I" feel is beneficial dureing early veg. I can't help but believe that the most widely "mixed" spectrum, has to be the most beneficial, over all. After all, aren't we attempting to duplicate the sunshine?
I usually take any information from a site that is also marketing that product, with a "grain of salt", say. The simple fact that they claim "100% efficiency, makes me cringe. Is there any such thing?..
But the point of my post is not to regenerate the issue, but to make ammends with a respected member.

 

[Runbyhemp]

Apology accepted, thanks

I can't help but believe that the most widely "mixed" spectrum, has to be the most beneficial, over all. After all, aren't we attempting to duplicate the sunshine?

Agreed

As regards efficiency we're probably talking about peanuts in the difference and it really aint worth arguing about.

 

[THE Roseman]

I have read that a 5600 kelvin blue spectrum 105 watt CFL bulbs puts out far more lumens than a 2700K 105 watt red spectrum CFL bulb. I saw it in one book, from one source. It said that LUMENS or MORE LUMENS is what we should strive for when growing with CFLs.
It also recomended using a ratio of two 56K bulbs to one 27K bulb when VEGGING and to use two 27K bulbs to one 56K bulb when FLOWERING. I read this three years ago and I do it and it works for me. well, I sort of do it, or did it. Now I just cram as many bulbs into my grow closet as I can buy and the circuit-breaker can carry. I now use 14 bulbs, 6 85 watt, 6 105 watt, and 50-50 56K and 27K spectrums. I also use two 4100 Kelvin 105 watt bulbs. I'm very happy with the results.

16 bulbs do warm up the closet and room, but two fans keep it around 75 degrees F. at day with lights on. again, I'm happy with what I get.
Peace

 

[md.apothecary]

mixing spectrums is good, but look at the charts i posted, you're really only gaining a few blocks on both the blue and aqua spectrums.

As far as effeciency CFLs will not produce as much as an HPS in flowering... but I have seen some REMARKABLE cfl grows putting out about 4oz on 3 plants! Using 3 envirolites. It is what inspired me to build my grow box exactly like his.

 

[THE Roseman]

here is a link to my grow, showing 16 CFLs on two tanks, on 5 plants. My larget yield to date is nine ounces of dried cured trimmed buds from one plant. In my pics, you can see one large plant on right, which is my biggest to date and judging from past experience, I ;ll get 12 plus ounces from it. It has ten tops!
Look here:
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=211339&posted=1#post211339

There is no doubt that HID lights give a much better yield than CFLS. BUT, I do not vent out hot air, I use one oscilating fan, my room and closet stay 76 to 78 degrees F, and my water temp stays 72F with the lights on . My power bill is not noticable either. I wish I could grow with HID lights, but I'm trying to stay STEALTH, and reduce the heat too.

 

[dankbud420]

go get some salt water fluo. high blue for veg and high red for flower come in 12''-48'' sizes. buddy of mine uses these and his babies look great

 

[THE Roseman]

This arguement or debate can be found on every grow site there is.
But I am proud and happy to say, I have not seen any anger or name calling here, or vulgarity, or resorting to any childish behavior here. You guys make me proud to be a member here.
PEACE

 

[GrandDaddyToke]

Getting back to the question in hand, the only choice i would even consider comparing to the HPS system would be T5's Fluorescent Bulbs, its newer technology that adapts very close to an hps system with less heat and electricty, if you go for the best ones then you will more likely be paying more for something to equal your 400 watt Hps but will get you the results youre looking for, another con is the space requirement for the T5's since you wanna be using 4' tubes @ 4 per Fixture or 8 per Fixture . Each T5 Lamp puts out 5,000 Lumens at 54 watts. Hope this helps you out..

:aok:

I ordered a T5 4 x 2 with 8 fluro tubes and 8 tubes for flowering. It's going in a closet thats lined with Mylar. The closet is 4.5 x 2 so im hping this should put out some light. I will put a inline fan that vents out to the roof. I have had some great grows. But the electric with 3 400 watt MH/HPS and inline fans plus other fans to keep temps down is very expensive.
I hope this T5 wors out. Picked up a new unit with 16 bulbs total $430.00 deliverd to the door. If it dosent work it should be great for cloning right?

 

[sweetnug]

T-5 flos are great! I use them for veg. and cloning. The only problem is keeping them cool. They cannot be air cooled and therefore you must have a good ventilation/circulation system in place.

 

[stvitusdance]

i'm just going to chime in with a purely subjective observation. keep in mind i don't have years and years of experience - just a couple of gro's. i've been growing with roughly 300 to 500 watts of CFLs and been happy with them and the results. however, i just bought a good reflector and 400 watt MH/HPS set up. i got it yesterday and i can't believe how much brighter and more intense these HID lights are compared to the same wattage of CFLs. i was blind for an hour! i think i get it now: HID's are the way to go if you can find a way to deal with the added heat.

agreed? am i wrong?

 

[tazz]

I'm running a combination of a 150w hps and a 125w cfl in a grow area thats 2.5 ft wide by 2 ft deep by 3.5ft tall and the temps stay around 85 degrees. I use a 4inch inline fan to pull the hot air out and a small desk fan to blow air in the area and it seems to work so far. I noticed a difference within the first 24 hours after adding the 150w hps (i used to have 2 125w cfl's). I have a thread in indoor growing.

 

[mal_crane]

Thats pretty warm tho tazz. Ideal temp would be 70-75 tops.