I can't stop mainlining (Manifold first timer)

[sopappy]

You can start Lst on them now if you want. They are very resilient during veg. As long as the stems are soft, you can do most anything to them as long as the skin isn't torn, and they will heal and be stronger. That is why a lot of people put fans on their very young plants. The constant blowing around makes the stems sturdier.

Omigawd, now? Here I am afraid I'll walk in there and they'll have fallen over, I wouldn't dare train them, damn that stretch. Some days I miss my mH and HPS days. <<<< see that?, potheads do that a lot, use the same word twice in the same sentence <<<< did you see what I did there?

I don't like the constant blowing, I prefer your fan blowing up idea, that's all I use is that little PC one you see there. Even that's on a timer. The whole canopy just gentle wiggles everywhere.
The only other exercise my stems get is me smacking them around a bit.

 

[sopappy]

Now here is how a mainline converted into scrog should almost look. Ideally, it should've been set down further so that more of the branches were splayed out and then flipped immediately. However, on this one the guy couldn't bend the branches for tucking or doing SC as the plant was too woody stemmed.

So a scrog is a failed manifold? Seems long internode lengths spoil everything.
Mine actually doesn't look all that bad now, it looks like extra colas now too but boy they sure look spares, week 6 begins tomorrow.

another stoner thing: I meant to say 'sparse' up there, not 'spares'
or is that some other neurological disorder?
(it's all downhill after 60)

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[sopappy]

Please don't delete this thread. Your gonna get me through winter not growing. And on top of that I am learning loads right here.

That double trouble seedling is a wonder.

Oh, so we both won't be growing this winter? :laugh:
I find winters easier than summers, you must be outdoor.

I haven't mastered this manifold thing by any means so I guess it's okay here. Trouble is, I haven't mastered the ramp thing either and I discuss it here and now I have this two-headed experiment... anything goes in a grow thread, me bad boy here

hey Rosebud, can you move this thread to the grow section?

 

[Hushpuppy]

I would say that your plant looks like it is doing quite well at the moment. MJ can be quite forgiving of mistakes and can recover to give you much better than expected results.

I wouldn't say that scrog is a failed manifold. Its more that some of the same techniques apply in getting the plant to grow to a certain point and then spread the canopy out horizontally. If/when people grow under LED fixtures, the shallow, horizontally spread canopy is what works best because of the nature of LED light. But my intension of using scrog is to get many more top colas off a more mature plant. If you(me, or anyone) is successful in doing a proper scrog, then the plant canopy stays at one level so there is better light exposure and absorption. This also allows the bud colas to grow up and away from the canopy so that they can ripen better in the light.

I feel ya on the old age thing. I am 51 but because of the 8 surgeries that I have had over the past 15 years, I feel many years older. Some mornings I get up and can barely move because of the ache I suffer. Thus the reason that I grow medical MJ.

 

[sopappy]

It's an amazing plant alright, I have not been able to maintain any kind of ramp and I'm in to week 6 of flower. My ramps keep wanting to go the wrong way...
yet she looks fine, colour is nice, the buds look keen (yet sparse) and the canopy is remarkably level. She drinks but just nibbles.... oh well... I don't think I would have even tried the scrog thing without your tutelage, thanks.

Under the knife 8 times in 15 years? Jesus, HP, I didn't really want to hear that. Some folks sure have a rough go of it. I often think about accident statistics when they say dozens injured but nobody killed, as if we can take solace from that... I hope your pain isn't chronic, that is the worst.
Hang in there

 

[Gooch]

sopappy I believe the reason your ramp is going the opposite way is because in the later weeks of flowering the plant is using more potassium in order to build giant buds, and because potassium carries a positive charge then the positive charge is removed as the plant uses it making the ph go down i believe is how it was explained. although i would not recommend a pk booster as you dont need the phosphorus just the potassium

 

[Hushpuppy]

Oh yeah the pain is chronic for me. I have significant arthritis in my lower back and shoulders, and I have permanent nerve damage in my left sciatic nerve. The arthritis welcomes me to the morning, and the nerve damage kisses me goodnight. I have learned to ignore more pain than many people could stand. But at some point you have to have a break. The opiates can only do so much without rendering me unconscious. My smoke allows me to play drums for several hours and then relax in the evenings.

But enough about that soliloquy What kind of trouble are you having with the "ramping"? I assume you are talking about pH shift in your rez?

 

[Hushpuppy]

I see Gooch done been studying some chemistry That is correct to a degree. As the plant takes in what it wants, it will cause the pH to adjust to the various chemical levels in the solution. This will cause the max intake range to shift off some so that the plant is no longer able to draw in that particular element. It will be able to draw in other things that are more available. This will shift the pH again, and take the solution out of range and into range of another element, and so on until the pH bottoms out, or tops out.

With the RAW materials, you can add back those elements that the plant has taken up, and this will rebalance the pH some or all depending on the chemical levels. Once you learn all of the different elements, how and when the plant uses them the most, then you can adjust the chemistry of that plant like adjusting a clock. A very good way to maximize your plants.

However, if you don't have all of the Raw elements then you can do it a different way by controlling the pH rather than the individual chemical levels. This allows you to get the most out of your nutrients without burning them. As the elements are taken up, the pH will change to show the ratio of each element. If you allow it to drop through the full range of the pH spectrum 5.2-6.2 then the peak absorption level for each element will get crossed, which will allow the plant to have full access to that element for a period of time (that lengthens with higher PPMs).

At that point you add pH adjuster to bring the pH scale back to the top, and allow it to go back down the scale again. I generally do this 3 times to deplete the solution, and then change it out. But you can also tell if the solution is depleted by how fast the pH drops. If the pH drops the full range of the scale within 24hrs, then I change out the solution.

I hope all of that made sense as I smoked a fat bowl of really good bud before I got on here. :doh:

 

[sopappy]

sopappy I believe the reason your ramp is going the opposite way is because in the later weeks of flowering the plant is using more potassium in order to build giant buds, and because potassium carries a positive charge then the positive charge is removed as the plant uses it making the ph go down i believe is how it was explained. although i would not recommend a pk booster as you dont need the phosphorus just the potassium

I say you need phosphorus in flower, that's why ideal pH is 5.7 5.9
:bolt:

 

[sopappy]

snipped----
At that point you add pH adjuster to bring the pH scale back to the top, and allow it to go back down the scale again. I generally do this 3 times to deplete the solution, and then change it out. But you can also tell if the solution is depleted by how fast the pH drops. If the pH drops the full range of the scale within 24hrs, then I change out the solution.

I hope all of that made sense as I smoked a fat bowl of really good bud before I got on here. :doh:

WHAT!?
I thought pH was supposed to float low to high.
That's it. I'm giving her 5.7 - 5.9 (depending on where I end up after pH adjuster) And as long as it moves, I'm happy!
They're coming to take me away haha hoho heehee

Another great post, HP. I'll never be that dedicated but I'm a big picture guy, it makes for a great read.

 

[Gooch]

I say you need phosphorus in flower, that's why ideal pH is 5.7 5.9
:bolt:

well you do need phosphorus but not at high level as a matter of fact it is best to use more phos in early veg for added root growth and in early flower to stimulate more bud sites, but once it has established the bud sites say around week 5 then it no longer needs extra phos it wants to take tose bud sites and bring all its energy to them with potassium so from week 5 on i will be adding more potassium and not more phos

 

[Gooch]

Oh yeah the pain is chronic for me. I have significant arthritis in my lower back and shoulders, and I have permanent nerve damage in my left sciatic nerve. The arthritis welcomes me to the morning, and the nerve damage kisses me goodnight. I have learned to ignore more pain than many people could stand. But at some point you have to have a break. The opiates can only do so much without rendering me unconscious. My smoke allows me to play drums for several hours and then relax in the evenings.

But enough about that soliloquy What kind of trouble are you having with the "ramping"? I assume you are talking about pH shift in your rez?

Hush i feel you there i have nerve damage in both ulner nerves from a serious car accident, and i have had surgery on both knees, as you know nerve damage is all pain but doesnt limit strength etc at least for me. i run wires for a living and carry ladders, i am able to almost ignore the pain when working but as soon as work is over its like a waterfall of pain lol something like "what you pay attention to is what you are aware of "

 

[Gooch]

SP do you use RO water?

 

[sopappy]

well you do need phosphorus but not at high level as a matter of fact it is best to use more phos in early veg for added root growth and in early flower to stimulate more bud sites, but once it has established the bud sites say around week 5 then it no longer needs extra phos it wants to take tose bud sites and bring all its energy to them with potassium so from week 5 on i will be adding more potassium and not more phos

The RAW stuff, yes, I like the theory ie:
more Phosphorus early., less later VS less potassium early, more later
but how do you implement that exactly?
It sounded easy but I still can't hit my pH and ppm targets in hydro,

You'll be adding more potassium to what? your favourite bloom nutes?
(that's where it falls apart for me, how do I remove the phosphorus I don't want later in flower?)
But if you custom make your own complete batch every time from all those envelopes, I'm in.

 

[sopappy]

SP do you use RO water?

nope, I have decent city water, 70 ppm, 7.6 - 7.8
HDPE plastic tubs sit bubbling, which I thought would (should) increase pH but it doesn't, it drops to 6.5

 

[Gooch]

The RAW stuff, yes, I like the theory ie:
more Phosphorus early., less later VS less potassium early, more later
but how do you implement that exactly?
It sounded easy but I still can't hit my pH and ppm targets in hydro,

You'll be adding more potassium to what? your favourite bloom nutes?
(that's where it falls apart for me, how do I remove the phosphorus I don't want later in flower?)
But if you custom make your own complete batch every time from all those envelopes, I'm in.

Let me see if i can explain this while im high as ****- the most common problem in hydro is using to much nutes, using the recommended amount is giving luxury amounts of the various forms of nutes. All the formulas use nitrates which are great for the top of the plant shows its growing etc... but when the plants process the nitrites created by the nitrate its uses the energy of photosynthesis, and no matter how many nitries you feed it it will assimilate them using the energy, but we want that energy for flowers and buds not to burn an over abundance of nitrites. So this is why you cute your formula in half or your ppm in half or your ec in half which ever measurement you use. so if you are an ec of 2.8 which is around 1400ppm cut it back to 1000 or 1100 and then you spoon feed it. s im my case i am spoon feeding it pure phosphorus, and the amino acid formula, next week i will not add the phosphorus and instead i will add in kelp and humic acid, then the following week will be week5 i will start adding the extra pure potassium to give it the extra boost needed from the plant using all the potassium and it can use it up in 2-3 days, then when i stop adding it that is how it is removed i change the res and dont add it

 

[Gooch]

nope, I have decent city water, 70 ppm, 7.6 - 7.8
HDPE plastic tubs sit bubbling, which I thought would (should) increase pH but it doesn't, it drops to 6.5

are you in dirt or hydro? for some reason i thought you were in hydro

 

[sopappy]

are you in dirt or hydro? for some reason i thought you were in hydro

I screwed myself up real good this time. I had trouble with seeds germinating so I was planting 10 at a time hoping 5 would make it in to the buckets and I'd just let the leftovers grow in dirt.

Now I have the one in the bucket, 5 in dirt, all flowering
and 10 seedlings.... destined for 5 HP style manifolds in buckets and I'll keep leftovers in 4" pot hydroton for as long as I can, I may even try to hand watering them in larger pots of hydroton to harvest... I'm thinking if I bubbled water, I'll be okay. (dirt is a pain for me to discard)

Trouble is, I can't move the scrog from the veg room and they are in flower now so a pain to access the seedlings (green bulbs but I still don't like it)

I'm kinda worked up about that spoon-feeding... I'd like to follow you doing that in your buckets, keep us in the loop!

 

[sopappy]

Let me see if i can explain this while im high as ****- the most common problem in hydro is using to much nutes, using the recommended amount is giving luxury amounts of the various forms of nutes. All the formulas use nitrates which are great for the top of the plant shows its growing etc... but when the plants process the nitrites created by the nitrate its uses the energy of photosynthesis, and no matter how many nitries you feed it it will assimilate them using the energy, but we want that energy for flowers and buds not to burn an over abundance of nitrites. So this is why you cute your formula in half or your ppm in half or your ec in half which ever measurement you use. so if you are an ec of 2.8 which is around 1400ppm cut it back to 1000 or 1100 and then you spoon feed it. s im my case i am spoon feeding it pure phosphorus, and the amino acid formula, next week i will not add the phosphorus and instead i will add in kelp and humic acid, then the following week will be week5 i will start adding the extra pure potassium to give it the extra boost needed from the plant using all the potassium and it can use it up in 2-3 days, then when i stop adding it that is how it is removed i change the res and dont add it

AHAH! "cut it back to 1000 or 1100 and then you spoon feed it"
So you still use your favourite nute but you halve the ppms, check.
Now then, does he give you a timeline of when to tweak with the packages?
(interesting find, Gooch, well done!)

 

[sopappy]

Last night: 6.1 570 .84
This am: 6.1 570 .84 but down 2 quarts
topped up with pH 5.5
6.0 480 .71
(water diluted the nute concentration?)

I'm crowding the bucket a bit with the back-ups in dirt but I'm in a bit of a jam
Week 6 began yesterday

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