The Dr's Office

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Guys I would like to see if I can give a little more insight on the Hygrozyme/organic tea/synthetic nute discussion if I can. First Thanks D for the very kind words and for blowing my head up. I don't know if I deserve all that but I do enjoy learning new stuff and sharing it with others.

I don't consider myself to be a MJ grow master. I still see myself as a student who enjoys learning. But to the point of the feeding regimen:
I used to work for an international company(Novo Nordisk) that makes(produces) enzymes. I learned that the way microbes do all that they do in "natural processes" for making a lot of things, and how they break down raw materials and make them available to plants in nature(process called chelation) is through the use of enzymes that these microbes create within their bodies. An enzyme is a chemical that acts like a tool to break apart molecular structures. I won't go into the whole biochemistry lesson (partly because I don't know all of the facts), but what I do know is that companies who produce enzymes like Novo and Hygrozyme, do so by farming microbes.

These enzyme solutions are precisely the same enzymes that are produced by microbes in natural settings. The companies gather vast amounts of microbes and hold them in huge tanks where they feed them certain nutrients to keep them alive and happily producing their own enzymes. Then these enzymes are collected through special processes, bottled or dried and bagged, and sold to people who need the "natural process" but don't have the ability to utilize microbes.

For those of us who like the flavors given to the MJ products from "organics" but who don't want to go the "organic" method for what ever reason, The hygrozyme/organic tea is a shortcut to get the organic flavors.
Like DGF, I have high regard for PJ and those of you on here who do use the "organic method", but I think you may be misunderstanding my process. We are not trying to add microbes to the synthetic system only to have them die from the synthetics. We are skipping the need for the microbes by using the enzymes that are produced by those microbes.

There are several types of "organic tea" on the market. Some are more microbe teas and some are mainly liquefied, raw, "organic" nutrients, that are in some level of chelation. Some of these nutrient teas are full of microbes while others have very little living microbes left in them by the time they reach the customer. Since adding these teas to the synthetic system will kill off any microbes that may still be living, I decided to skip the microbes and add in the chemicals that they produce (enzymes) which is used to chelate the nutrients so that the plant can absorb them.

I have used several methods in my years of growing and I settled on my favorite method of using hydroponics. I used "organics" for some time, and while I am in no way at the level of experience of growers like PJ, I did do the organic method long enough to decide that I didn't like it for me. If you like it and want to do organics, my method isn't for you. You should do what you enjoy and also works for you.

I don't know if anyone else has discovered this method as I didn't get it from anyone. I take exception to the idea that my method is the result of being brainwashed by any companies. I was happy with the results that I was getting with synthetics until a friend who regularly bought bud from me told me that he and his friends preferred "that organic flavor" in their bud. I was set to go back to organics in one segment of my grow so that I could provide what they liked, but then I saw the discussion of hygrozyme on this forum, and the idea of substituting enzymes for microbes occurred to me.

I tried the hygrozyme and an organic tea (which I had already bought for growing organic). I found that my plants were healthy and happy right up to harvest with virtually no yellowing off toward harvest. I noticed that this first run with this new method had significant yield and odor improvement (using the same strain of plants from clones that I had before beginning the new method). I told no one of my experiment and continued to sell my bud to certain individuals who had been buying from me exclusively. Every person who bought the "new" bud came back to me and said, "man what are you doing to your buds? the flavor is amazing and even more potent than any before. What ever you are doing, keep doing it."

I wasn't satisfied to believe that the "zyme and tea" method was responsible, so I decided to get a couple friends to try it and tell me what results they get. Both people had the same results and continue to use it. One of those is DGF :) I cant tell you the exact reason it works like it does but the results so far are positive. I would invite anyone interested to try this method and share the results (good, bad, or indifferent. I don't want smoke blown up my skirt), I want to know if it is a viable method.

I normally tell people that you should never mix organics with synthetics or vice-versa as it leads to far too many possible problems. But I see this method, when carefully followed, to be more of a synthetic method with an organic trick up its sleeve. I believe the key to it is the hygrozyme. :) :)

Thanks Hush, see doc, this is the explanation I was fishing for! It makes good sense. And I like your results! I just may have to give this a whirl! Lol
 
I believe I'm going to be purchasing a small setup to experiment with:

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I will both veg and flower in this little space and just do some fun things in here I think! :D

I just so happen to have a light I could make a sweet deal on for you! Lmfao
 
Oh hey, Brix.... if you wait till funds are available I will purchase that from you! If not, just send back to Mars and I'll get another one through Sara. I should have funds within 1-2 weeks, so honestly if you need the money go for it and send it back, otherwise I may as well just buy it from you :)
 
Yeah we can do that. Lucy sent me a emai saying to ship it back to here and to pay the shipping and they'll pay me back. I'm not doing that. I told them I'm not coming out of pocket for that light for any reason as it was not my mistake!
 
Yeah we can do that. Lucy sent me a emai saying to ship it back to here and to pay the shipping and they'll pay me back. I'm not doing that. I told them I'm not coming out of pocket for that light for any reason as it was not my mistake!

Yep, you keep your stand there. You should pay not a dime. But, if I buy it off you, you better pay THEM for it lol!!!!!

Wait a minute. If I have to wait for funds then.. grr.. we'll figure this out sooner than later. Give me some time.

PM me with the price I have to pay for the one. I'm not 100% on the discount you got so not sure how much I'll have to come up with :)
 
Maybe your best bet for this situation, is to either ask them to mail you a return shipping label as since it's not your mistake you're not paying a penny for a mistake that's not yours! ... and that way there will be no issue all around. I may not have the money for that light for weeks, so I can't put you out.

Just thinking out loud here....
 
For those interested in trying the "zyme and tea method", I only use Advanced Nutrients' Jungle Juice as my synthetic nute so I'm not sure how the zyme and tea method will work with other synthetic nutes. I would assume that it wouldn't matter but there is the possibility that there could be some chemical conflicts, but I doubt it would be much if any with the more popular hydro nute brands.

There is no need to add the zyme and tea during the vegging period as the synthetic nutes will carry the plants through to flower phase like normal. You only need to add the zyme and tea during the flowering phase. This method may take a little adjusting of personal applications for different people's nute regimens, and nute brands. I can only give you what I do in mine as an example. You will have to use mine and DGF's regimen as a base line and adjust from there to fit you specific setup.

I use AN's Jungle Juice 3part as my base nute. I feed on a continuous timed top-feed to my plants with an RDWC under my plants (a hybridized hydro system for sure). I mix all 3 parts at 20ml each (plus 20ml of calmag because I grow in coco) per 5gal of water for my max nute during veg. This gives me around 750-800ppm which seems to be a good number for all of the strains that I have grown so far. When I switch them to flower, I will increase my "bloom" and decrease my "grow" nutes for the first 2 weeks of flower. Then at the end of the 3rd week, I flush the system out to remove any build up (this is just my personal preference for preventing any buildup issues later).

When I start back with nutes after the flush (which is simply dumping the system and refilling with straight, un-pH'd water, and let circulate for 24hrs, then dump) I go back with 0 "grow", 40ml of "micro", 60ml of bloom, 20ml of calmag, 40ml of tea, and 40ml of hygrozyme(per 5gal of water). This gives me about 1200ppm in my system. I stay with this regimen until they are in the last couple weeks before harvest. At that point I cut off the calmag and cut the Jungle juice in half but keep the tea and zyme the same right up to harvest. I cut the JJ in half because the plants are at a point where they have done the most of the building and are just in the final stages of bud swelling and ripening. I feel like the extra nutes at this point are wasted, and they still are getting the full amount of tea.

I normally will drain the rez and refill it with fresh nute solution every 2 weeks. I only top up the rez with fresh water and then readjust the pH. I can tell with mine when it is time to replace the water because the pH will begin to swing faster and faster as the nutes in the solution get used up.

That is my regimen. :) I basically have cut back on the amount of synthetic nutes that I used to use during flower by about 1/3 (not counting cutting out the "grow" as I did that before using the tea and zyme). I would suggest that you don't change any of your veg regimen if it is working for you and if you are using a different nute than me, just cut the flowering regimen back by 1/4-1/3 and add in the 40ml of tea and zyme. You may have to adjust some if you see the plants begin to get nute burn.

But I have found with most of the strains that I have grown under this regimen that if you balance it around 1200ppm for the average hybrid strains, they will be happy. If you are growing more sativa strains that are light eaters, then you may want to cut back the synthetic nutes more to account for the 40ml of tea and zyme. My 1200ppm number is measured with the zyme added but before adjusting the pH.

If anyone has any questions specific to me you are welcome to pm me but I will check here for questions as the answers from me or DGF may help others who have the same questions. :)
 
Some random pics to update the thread with. Some of the harvest in the drying tent, bud shots of a lower bud, shot of my flowered tent I'm taking down (leaves are SO ugly!!!!), shot of my veg station and some shots of Hydro Flowering Tent #2 at 3 weeks and 2 days old. This is perfection currently, and I hope nothing changes for me! I'm really happy with going back hydro, as I'm sure each and every single one of you knows as I've made it abundantly clear, hahah :D

The close up shots are; Cinderella 99 / Merlot OG (purple) / Cheese

Look at how full that tent is...the underside of my plants could've used a little more tending, but heck...this lets me understand the full potential of LED penetration. I'll see where it started to fluff up more, as I go down the canopy.

As I mentioned, no issues so far in there.
I'm running 5.9ph in all 4 bins, at 1150ppm's.
I've added back nute solutions at that level...no more, no less, and not water only. I only do water only in the last week and a half or so. I do a mid run "clean", kinda, at 4 weeks I'll suck out all the bins from their old solution and put new solution back. I've contemplated running all 8 weeks with just adding nute solution back and not cleaning, just to see what happens...as I never see issues. I've been told, sometimes I won't see the issues, but things inside will have just slowed down or not have yielded as much and I would've not known it....but that it did hurt the plant.
I dunno, I figured if it was hurting the plant, it would start to show me somehow. Either way, that's all my hash brain talking HAHAH, I do a mid run change out either way, just to be safe. But I never do water only back, and I add back nutes at the exact ppm that I put them in for that week. *shrug* ..I've been told it's wrong, but I like it. I guess I like living dangerously. :D But in truth, this is the work of the Hygrozyme totally locking out and leaving the bad (toxic) stuff at the bottom of the res. All the poo that should create toxicity (ppm's rising) doesn't happen.

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Bud porn, bud porn in the morn. We love it. Thanks Doc.
 
drooooool Great Job Buddy ! very nice pics
 
But I never do water only back, and I add back nutes at the exact ppm that I put them in for that week. *shrug* ..I've been told it's wrong, but I like it. I guess I like living dangerously.
..and like I said, people will grow plants and finish them off just fine.

The difference is Volkswagen vs Ferrari.

They both get you from point A to point B, but the Ferrari is just heads and tails better in every way.

I'd also add that you should drop your PPM's way down as in 7 to 800 max under the LED's or your gonna end up with cardboard tasking smoke with less yield.

This is covered in the tips and tricks thread growing with LED's, but you are certainly welcome to see for yourself using that expensive food of yours.

I'll also add one other tid bit of info since i have seen it said several times here and it is 100% false information.

Coco I have seen on here needs calmag. This is FALSE. Coco deplets Magnesium and Sulfur, but has ZERO effect on Calcium. While of course people will have some success doing this method [most likely from other sources helping along the way] it is an absolute waste of money to invest in a Calmag product.

In 35 years I have "had" to use Calmag zero times.

I challenge anyone willing to spend the money on Hushpuppys method to try your nutes at:

6ML of micro
9ML of bloom
1ML or gram of Epsom salt.
This is PER GALLON FOLKS.

I reformulated my old recipe from a chemical standpoint to work in Coco.

Here is some info from the Hygrozyme site:

Healthy mediums foster healthy growth! Hygrozyme is a natural enzymatic formula used for cleaning growing mediums, without chemicals. Enzymes in a growing media eat dead protein removing potential areas where illness can develop. Through this break-down process plants are better able to obtain nutrients. More nutrients and less attacks equals bigger, stronger and faster plant growth. Use during all growing stages.

I'm not going to go in to an hour explaining how enzymes and microbs work in conjunction. I will hownever state unless there is the right type of *medium present, microbs are pretty worthless and are not utilized. In other words, DWC ain't doing it. It's about as worthless as adding mycorrhizae in a DWC and expecting it to work. These items work in the medium, not floating in a nutrient mixture.

Your successful because you have got your nute strength down to where it should have been all along.

Hygrozyme is helping clean the roots, but that's all it's doing.

That recipe is nothing more than a modified General hydroponics standard recipe using organic ingredients and was not invented here. It was also based on using a medium, not DWC.

I also find it funny that people still actually believe that organic weed has a better flavor than hydro. I have literally had 2 organic growers just this year tell me how killer my smoke was, and how they thought it would be otherwise.
 
I have NEVER tasted a difference in Organic Soil Grow or Hydro. No more then i can look at two buds and say,,that one was grown in Dirt and that one in a Hydro System. Lol
 
Again, I take exception to being told in a round about way that I am full of bovine organic fertilizer and that I am trying to claim inventing something new. I don't take offense to what is said, only exception to what is said. All I can say is that I had a desire for "tastier" smoke expressed to me. While my standard hydro smoke was good, they wanted more flavor. I got an idea from different things that I heard and read(about hygrozyme). I tried it (as a personal experiment)without telling anyone that I was going to try it, and I got rave reviews on the results, and still get rave reviews on my bud. As I said before, I don't know the in-depth science to it but I know that 3 people have done the same thing and got the same results. :confused2:

The scientific method says that if an experiment's results can be repeated in different scenarios then the experiment is a success. I guess we can call the first 3 of us to try this (as I don't know of anyone else who has done this) the Alpha and Beta tests. I am not trying to sell nutrients or lights or equipment or even methods to anyone. It works for me and I am curious if it will work for others who wish to have the same results without having to grow organically. If it improves the resulting bud flavors and doesn't introduce anything harmful to the user, then I am all for it, at least for my self if it doesn't work for a single other person, but my desire is to help others. :confused2: :)
 
I'm going to run a tent with just what standard nutes, and run a plant (or possibly more) in a 2x2 with 400w LED. I'm not knocking anything until I try it. Who knows what happens, and at least it's just a side project.

It just seemed when I added the zyme and tea my stuff immediately tasted better. It's hard to debate or deliberate much about this because.. damn.. HP worked at a factory dealing with microbes and enzymes and such, and PJ has 35 years of hard core experience and builds lights better than on the market...

I just have to have fun and get good results. I'm willing to try stuff on the side, without a doubt.

PJ.. any thoughts on Bloombastic, made by Atami?

All great discussion in here. Very informative thread for anyone on the sidelines reading along. :aok: Thank you PJ, HP and everyone partaking!
 
I have NEVER tasted a difference in Organic Soil Grow or Hydro. No more then i can look at two buds and say,,that one was grown in Dirt and that one in a Hydro System. Lol

Indeed, it reminds me of wine tasting... I just can't imagine why anyone would spit out alcohol.
As for smoke flavor.... oh, c'mon now, that's not why I smoke.
(no offense or exception intended, HP, just having a little fun here)
 
So today I took the last 6 down in Tent #1. I started to do the tutorial to make 18 gal DWC totes, and I ruined my first tote on the first drilling. DOH!! What a noob thing I forgot to remember
**note** Drill plastics BACKWARDS!!!!...put the damn drill in reverse, and drill backwards, at least with butterfly drill bits.

Will post the tutorial and harvest pics and also new tent being converted back with 4 new Cinderella 99's. That will all come tomorrow. Till then, you all have a great night! :D
 
HP, i have nothing but respect for you my friend. I speak for myself. I can't taste a difference,,but that's me. If it works for peeps thats cool,,just doesn't work for me. Fraid my Taster must not be that Sensitive. I said taster ,,,,not tater. Lol
 

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