Breeding Question

[Pothead420]

i want to make some Dragon's Breath crosses keeping the DB traits i was just wondering when you cross 2 strains do the seeds represent 50/50 both strains or do they keep more traits from the female or male

 

[umbra]

it varies from cross to cross as to what attributes are dominant verus recessive. typically there will be a few pheno types that express themselves. so some may be 50-50 while others may be something else.

 

[Mutt]

Wow complex question. if your really trying to isolate traits and lock them in.....
I would start with the stickies at the top of this section and start reading your brains out. then when hung up on something come and ask. there is so much info needed to do what you want and a lot of it is in the stickies.

but it is a lot to absorb and understand. so i would start there and come back asking what they mean and how its done

locking in traits is more than just making crosses. you gonna be throwing away prefectly good females becuase they don't express the traits you want. males too. You'll also want to start as many seeds of the strain you want to help with a broader range of pheno types. 2-3 seeds just won't cut it IMO.

Friend of mine has taken over 2-3 yrs getting one locked in. and has pages upon pages of notes. so get ready for a brain twist of a ride if its your first time tackling this.

You'll want to keep mothers and fathers of selected canidates and work off clones and inbreed them down to f2's or f3's then bx it back to one of the parents. this will lock in good. and I would do full plant pollenation each process. but thats just me.

by going down to f2-f3's you'll get those recessive traits out and see whats hidden in the pheno so nothing comes up to bite you l8r. sometimes rec. hermie traits won't express themselves for couple to even several generations.

Use only known good lineage. not femd seeds or possible stress hermied stock.

 

[bombbudpuffa]

You'll want to keep mothers and fathers of selected canidates and work off clones and inbreed them down to f2's or f3's then bx it back to one of the parents.

The way I understand it is you don't have to keep mothers or fathers. You can also inbreed and stabilize a strain without BCing. The only reason that you BC is to put a lil more of the father/mother into the strain but doesn't have to be done. Am I wrong?

 

[Mutt]

The way I understand it is you don't have to keep mothers or fathers. You can also inbreed and stabilize a strain without BCing. The only reason that you BC is to put a lil more of the father/mother into the strain but doesn't have to be done. Am I wrong?

Nope your right, but it is an eaiser way IMO. and requires less seed starts IMO.
inbreeding you have to go down at least to F3's IMO. 1 Bx and it should be locked in. I would still go down to a F3 just to flush out rec. traits. F2 should do it for him tho. but inbreeding would want to go down to F4 which thats a whole lot of selecting. and a massive amount of grow time. just my 2 cents worth. For the personal grower F2 then back to the desired plant should work and keep most of the phenos pretty close to where he wants to be.

BC is to put a lil more of the father/mother into the strain

i want to make some Dragon's Breath crosses keeping the DB traits i was just wondering when you cross 2 strains do the seeds

Think Bx'n is his best bet. for a first time in keeping it.
Seems to me Bx'n back to the DB would get him where he wants to be. Instead of inbreeding it and huntin and pecking around finding the pheno he wants. just my opinion...many ways to skin this cat. Just thinking of how i would handle it.

good post BBP.
inbreeding for traits is great for single grow area growers. Bx'n would shave a lot of time off if you don't mind dealing with cuttings and perm veg plants.

Edit:
but it is tricky if the DB is a female plant becuase male selection is much tougher IMO than female selection. If his DB is a female...then i think i might go with your way BBP just to keep it simple and less fartin around with males.

lets not even get into outcrossing...still haven't got my head wrapped around that one LOL...yet

 

[bombbudpuffa]

Hey, I guarantee you know a lot more than me on the subject. Breeding isn't an option for me. It requires too much grow space...and plants. I see what you're saying about bxing. It would require a lot less plants than inbreeding. Great posting Mutt.

 

[Mutt]

hey BBP.
Except for the wallyduck.
Your hybrid crossing i would stick with inbreeding prolly find some kick *** phenos doing what your doing.

reason why i say except for the wallyduck. I'd be a lil hesitant. to not Bx. Those special trait strains like the webbed leaves might get harder and harder to keep the further down the line you go (not familiar with the strain) where a Bx might lock it in on your future seed runs. one Bx of a whole plant and you prolly wouldn't have to worry about webbed leafed phenos for a looooooooong time

but you are an excellent canidate for inbreeding becuase you don't clone.
You do outcross (lookin at your poll) I would really research that if i were you. Some peeps i know ONLY outcross and don't beleive in inbreeding or Bx'n. If you want hit me up and I'll see if i can steer you some good places for picking your outcross concepts

 

[bombbudpuffa]

You're right. Mostly all i do is outcross. I find i'm getting pickier and pickier on the parents too...which I guess is a good thing. I'm planning on bxing my PurpWreckxBlueMoonshine(outcross) with the mother(1 of the 1st i'm keeping) because I like the mom so much and it's a coin toss what the male is going to do for the cross. I don't plan on doing anything big just simple crosses atm. I like outcrossing because 1)It gives you a special hybrid made with phenos that it's unlikely someone else would cross. 2)Free seeds!!!

 

[Mutt]

Few things i like about your outlook many overlook. and you got major props from me seeing it this way.

I like outcrossing because 1)It gives you a special hybrid made with phenos that it's unlikely someone else would cross.

This is exactly how others create new strains. its easy to take two of the same strain and cross em and have them carry on the traits. but by outcrossing you are vastly increasing the pheno trait variety...how many go about being on the pursuit of the "holy grail". After finding the pheno your after then switch over to the inbreeding to isolate

I find i'm getting pickier and pickier on the parents too

So many think any old male will do it. females are easy to pick....those males can be tricky. After you get your feel for the females down...perfect your male selection and you'll be well on your way. males for me is the biggest obstacle on determining what in fact makes a good father. Picking females is easy..look at it and smoke it males is a different beast IMO. I can get you some really good reads if you want. will PM em to ya

Happy growing BBP one day i hope to see the BBP created strain (the bombbud) LOL
as far as i'm concerned and others might disagree. but if you find a pheno that isn't like any other...its its own. stable and true breeding through your own blood sweat and tears you get to name it

I will warn ya tho BBP...tears will prolly be in the equation. seen peeps spend 2 yrs on a pheno just to have a recessive hermie trait explode (f3 or F4)...ask hick about his trainwreck not too long ago LOL...think he's still ticked off about that. LOL and the whole project shot to ****. So be ready for wierd things to happen the further down you inbreed it. never know whats locked up in a plant until you run it through a few times.

Seen some peeps try to breed the trait out of it through selection and backcrossing. but I have mixed feelings about that. might reduce the probability of it showing up...but i think its still in there somewhere. but thats just my theory.

(i can talk about this and organics all day long and to think it started out a long time ago... me asking what kinda ferts to buy )

 

[bombbudpuffa]

I will warn ya tho BBP...tears will prolly be in the equation.

I've prepared myself for it. These plants are unpredictable. Sometimes I think the whole "strain" and "good genes" thing is bologna! The best cross I ever had was Nirv AfghanixDeshaman Purple Widow. The frostiest plant i've ever had.It's all luck of the draw imo. You could grow the best genes in the world and get the worst plant you've ever saw. Another example, a friend of mine started a grow with all of these high $ seeds and one bag seed. He ran out of room and put the bagseed outside. Turned out the bagseed was the best plant he grew that time. Neon green buds with hot pink pistils. Made all of his high $ strains look regular. He never got to harvest the pink girl because someone stole her but I sure would like to find a plant with hot pink pistils.

 

[Mutt]

Turned out the bagseed was the best plant he grew that time.

you know a few breeders that breed for sale there strain came from bagseed. can't remember off hand which one. i "think" rezdawg. but please please please don't quote me on that. Never know when or where one of those amazing phenos will turn up. but on the downside...takes a lot of "oh crap this one sucked" to get there

 

[bombbudpuffa]

takes a lot of "oh crap this one sucked" to get there

I crossed Blue Mystic with Purple Widow and that wasn't the best cross. Instead of getting a mix of the 2 it seemed they would all lean towards the father or the mother. I never could find a good plant from them and it took up a lot of time. The BM phenos were great just like the mother but the PW phenos smelled like grass and tasted like***Expletive***. I haven't grown any out in a while because of that. The PWxAK was 50/50 on potent/nonpotent plants but most of them showed traits from both parents. The AfghanxPW has been amazing. The purple phenos yield the best but smell and potency are lacking. Now, there is a green pheno, with purple hues thats super frosty and tastes like candy. Thats the AfxPW i'm on the hunt for but I only have around 6 beans to try and find it. What i'm getting at is crossing is very hit and miss and i've found myself finding more less desirable traits than the killer ones. I think clones could help me preserve the killer phenos better so maybe I should always ake cuttings.

 

[Pothead420]

my only prob is a limited selection of the Dragons Breath cause of low seed stock so i want to keep it in some form (DB is AK-47 x SDV3)
i figure using the AK-47 x bubbleberry will add the AK back into the mix and the Bubbleberry also the same with the Direwulfe x Blue Buddhas add some SDV3 back into the mix with the Blue Buddha
im also gonna make F2s from the SK#1 and start an IBL