few questions for you experienced hydroponic guys/gals

[Aurora_Indicas_Dad]

i've always grown in soil but my grow i'm gonna be starting within the next month or so will be my first hydroponic grow.(in an igs system) i was checkin out the GH rockwool plugs w/ tray at insidesun.com as well as the 6''x6''x5.8'' hugo rockwool cubes from hydrowarehouse. my questins are:
1)Even though they arent the same brand rockwool,will the GH plugs still fit into the Hugo cubes?
2)after i put the plugs into these cubes i'll be done transplanting right?
(a 6x6x5.8 inch cube is big enough to use from the time their 2 inches-harvest?)
3)also,would anybody recommend using hydroton on the bottom and top of the cube or should i just have the cube only in the pot?
4)i read that b-4 using the rockwool,you just soak it in water with a ph level of 5.5,if this is the case,what is the bottle of stuff they sell at the hydroponic shop (i think its reconditioning) if all you have to do is soak the rockwool in water,it wouldnt make any sense to buy this stuff.correct?

anyways,sorry bout all the questions,i just couldnt pull anything up from the search engine.
Thanks for any help

 

[Ilikebigbuds]

what kind of dro system are you going to be using?

 

[md.apothecary]

I think all IGS systems are drip systems right??

1) Not sure about this one

2) Yes, you can use these, however, depending on how large the inside diameter hole is, you might think about starting in smaller rockwool cubes and simply place those into the larger ones after the seedlings are actually present.

3) I would surround the cube with hydroton, this is what really supports the plant in the systems. A rockwool cube will be left loose, and the plant will get top heavy QUICK, which means by then roots will be everywhere and harder to support the top heavy plant.

4) I don't use any kind of water or any soaking prior to using rockwool cubes. I soak them when I need to use them and that's it. No problems yet. This is just one of those OCD type things people do, but really does not effect your end result. Rockwool is pH neutral as it is anyway, so really, you want your HYDRO water to be pH'd as this will be flooding the rockwool cube anyway after the plants are put into the system.

1)Even though they arent the same brand rockwool,will the GH plugs still fit into the Hugo cubes?
2)after i put the plugs into these cubes i'll be done transplanting right?
(a 6x6x5.8 inch cube is big enough to use from the time their 2 inches-harvest?)
3)also,would anybody recommend using hydroton on the bottom and top of the cube or should i just have the cube only in the pot?
4)i read that b-4 using the rockwool,you just soak it in water with a ph level of 5.5,if this is the case,what is the bottle of stuff they sell at the hydroponic shop (i think its reconditioning) if all you have to do is soak the rockwool in water,it wouldnt make any sense to buy this stuff.correct?

anyways,sorry bout all the questions,i just couldnt pull anything up from the search engine.
Thanks for any help

 

[Aurora_Indicas_Dad]

yea,its a dripper system (mine will hold 40 plants) the guys at the loal hydroponic shop said they have done some good grows on these systems.
i actually bought it for $100

 

[massproducer]

4) I don't use any kind of water or any soaking prior to using rockwool cubes. I soak them when I need to use them and that's it. No problems yet. This is just one of those OCD type things people do, but really does not effect your end result. Rockwool is pH neutral as it is anyway, so really, you want your HYDRO water to be pH'd as this will be flooding the rockwool cube anyway after the plants are put into the system.

Very untrue, rockwool's PH is too high for a hydroponic system because it has residual lime from the manufacturing process and Really should be treated with a solution that is Ph'd to 5.5 - 6 for atleast a few hours to dissolve the lime, i let mine sit overnight most times. It also is inert, so it has no nutrient values, so soaking the cubes in a mild nute solution is also recommended.

But preconditioning rockwool is definiately not an OCD type thing that has no impact on things.

 

[md.apothecary]

All rockwools are not the same. The best are produced from pure basaltic rock (diabase). The rockwools produced from diabase have a mineral balance that is inert and nonreactive. A few rockwools are produced from slag left over from smelting operations. These rockwools contain a high proportion of metals and may be somewhat reactive with the nutrient solution. High quality rockwools should have a uniform fiber diameter, even binder distribution and a low proportion of shot (mineral pellets that have not been spun into fibers).

Good quality rockwool has already been treated and cleaned. Thus rendering it pH neutral upon receipt.

YOUR water/nutrient solution's are what change the pH levels of the rockwool. Of course, depending on your rockwool quality.

 

[Timmyjg6]

Well done...

 

[massproducer]

All that I can tell you is to go to grodans website and do some reading on rockwool, as a byproduct of the manufacturing process, the cubes get coated in lime, it has nothing to do with the quality of the rockwool, grodan are some of the best rockwool created for the horticultural industry and these are their recomendations.

When you soak the cubes it dissolves the lime, please read, read, and read a little bit more

Rockwool is made of basalt rock and limestone that is melted and spun into fibers, that is where the residual lime comes from

 

[snuggles]

I have to side with MP on this one. I always soak and always heard it was a must. I sure would like to get some of that other rockwool though MD, sounds interesting and would be a lot easier IMO. I also would soak for 24 hours in pHed water with a lite nute application and a water conditioner if you have one....like hydroguard or something similar. In my experience if you don't soak rockwool it will screw up the pH and if you didn't know any better you would get frustrated. Nothing like pHing all the time and not knowing why LOL.

 

[massproducer]

Here is a passage from wikipedia about Rockwool / stonewool use in hydroponics:

Use in hydroponics

Mineral wool is used for its ability to hold large quantities of water and at the same time maintain a high percentage of air as well. This aids root growth and nutrient uptake. The fibrous nature of mineral wool also provides a good mechanical structure to hold the plant stable. Mineral wool has a high pH, which is unsuitable to plant growth. This requires correcting or conditioning. Conditioned mineral wool has a long, stable pH.

And here is the link so you can read it for yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockwool

 

[massproducer]

That is why so many commerical gardeners are switching to Oasis cubes, because they are similar to rockwool cubes, but they actually do have a stable ph, so all that you have to do is saturate the cubes and you are ready to go.

Could you have been talking about those?

 

[md.apothecary]

All that I can tell you is to go to grodans website and do some reading on rockwool, as a byproduct of the manufacturing process, the cubes get coated in lime, it has nothing to do with the quality of the rockwool, grodan are some of the best rockwool created for the horticultural industry and these are their recomendations.

When you soak the cubes it dissolves the lime, please read, read, and read a little bit more

Rockwool is made of basalt rock and limestone that is melted and spun into fibers, that is where the residual lime comes from

Information I posted above was from a Gro|Dan site.

Please take some of your own advice and re-read read read what I posted about the higher quality rockwool is already LIME FREE from pre-soaking before packaging/shipping.

 

[massproducer]

so please post a link, because i have already provided 1 that says exactly what i am saying, and i can provide you with tons of other links that all say the same thing... So please show me where it says not to presoak Grodan Rockwool, please show me this pre soaked, lime free product

 

[md.apothecary]

Delta Gro-Blocks are cubes of stonewool (rockwool) that have a grooved base which promotes drainage to avoid root rot.
Grodan stonewool is pH neutral, making it easy to maintain the ideal gardening pH value of 5.5 - 6.5. Each block is wrapped in white plastic on all sides for individual use.

http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/rockwool.asp

How about that for starters... I'm going through my bookmarks for the other which was from a grodan leaflet in pdf form.

 

[massproducer]

This is from the link that you provided:

soak the the Gro-Block in pH5.5 water overnight

for some reason you are not understanding, that yes rockwool itself has somewhat of a stable PH, it is the lime that causes the ph to rise, you obviously did not even read through your own link, because it tells you to soak the block for 24 hours in ph'd water overnight

 

[md.apothecary]

so please post a link, because i have already provided 1 that says exactly what i am saying, and i can provide you with tons of other links that all say the same thing... So please show me where it says not to presoak Grodan Rockwool, please show me this pre soaked, lime free product

I am not denying there is lime and such in the rockwool, it's how it's made. We don't need that information, however, you're suggesting that it's not pH neutral. As I have already pointed out IN THE LINK ABOVE, it is.

You're caught up on the link saying to SOAK in pH 5.5, yes understandable. This is like saying... "make sure your water in your hydro reservoir is pH'd to 6.0"

It's because your PLANT needs proper pH levels! A rockwool cube IS pH neutral! This is what you disagreed with from the very start.

Without any pH or proper pH you can't grow good plants, hence the reason to soak. You soak to promote root growth. Any and everything you add to this cube or hydro system is going to change the pH. No arguing that, but the cube itself IS neutral.

 

[massproducer]

like I said this is the advantage of Oasis foam as opposed to rockwool

 

[massproducer]

No what you said originally is that you do not have to soak rockwool cubes to condition them, you said that that was OCD, I simply stated that rockwool has to be soaked before it is used...


Here is my original post:

Very untrue, rockwool's PH is too high for a hydroponic system because it has residual lime from the manufacturing process and Really should be treated with a solution that is Ph'd to 5.5 - 6 for atleast a few hours to dissolve the lime, i let mine sit overnight most times. It also is inert, so it has no nutrient values, so soaking the cubes in a mild nute solution is also recommended.

But preconditioning rockwool is definiately not an OCD type thing that has no impact on things

 

[massproducer]

You are the one switching because up until now you WERE saying that there was no lime, that yours was pre soaked and had no lime, you are the one switching your position not me

 

[massproducer]

Information I posted above was from a Gro|Dan site.

Please take some of your own advice and re-read read read what I posted about the higher quality rockwool is already LIME FREE from pre-soaking before packaging/shipping.

Here you sure said that rockwool has no lime?