Soil, complete re-think

[The Poet]

I'm starting over.
Today I'm going to the Hydro store and buy new soil, Ocean Forest,
and to Walmart for Kellog Patio Plus as a base.
5 bags Ocean Forest x 3 bags Kellog. I plan on mixing this stuff and re-potting everything.

Most of the folks here who I have studied their techniques use Ocean Forest soil and Rosebud uses the Kellog as a base which sounds good, getting the cost down. Ocean Forest/Happy Frog has a granulated fertilizer like Espoma but I am wary of granulated as it is hard to apply accurately.

Say I mix 5 bags of Ocean Forest and 3 bags of Kellog patio plus and transplant grown plants. Now I am at a loss again as I have gardened outside for more than 50 years but I have no idea what I'm doing inside.
If an organic granulated fertilizer is not good what do y'all use to fertilize?
It may be true that on new bagged soil plants won't need any fertilizer through out veg. I want to use minimal fertilizer anyway, go organic as it were. But what do y'all do for nutes in such a set up?

My old Maxi-grow is outdated and synthetic, so is Dyna Grow.
Canna is too much trouble and expensive and what do Limey's know about gardening anyway?
Organic?

Rosebud... help! What do you fertilize with, if at all?
If a good soil is sufficient through veg are organic granulated nutes like 'Espoma/Happy Frog' alright through flowering?
How often to apply?
There's dozens of fertilizers in bottles but this plant {outside anyway} is capable of growing in poor soil with 'nothing' for fertilizer...and just a little rain.

What is the truth?
With such a soil what nutrients should be used, if any?



Thank you...


The Poet...♪


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[pcduck]

Are you staying organic or synthetic?

If organic Are you feeding the soil or the plant?

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

If you are growing organically indoors, you might want to read "True Living Organics" by The Rev. Basically what you want to is build up the soil so the soil can feed the plants. There are a number of ways to do this and The Rev talks about most of them--layering, spikes, teas, etc. IMO, if you ar growing organic, this should be required reading.

 

[The Poet]

Duck...


Yes, I would like to 'go organic'. The other part of the question is interesting. When being 'organic' one lets nature sort of 'take its course' and the correct answer would be 'feed the soil'.
Now I have gardened for 50+ years, raise poultry, hunt coon and am a real hillbilly. I know all about soil management, range and pasture management, woodlot management and have tilled-in manure, meals, sand and better soils, old grass clippings and tons of leaves for humus, dug down deep with a mould-board plow on my tractor, turned the soil over, worked it, manured it, and gardened here for 30 years.
But that is all outside, inside I have no earthly idea what it means to "feed the soil."
You mean that 'potting soil' in that little bucket?
That's soil?

Hemp Goddess, True Living Organics, the Rev. Thank you!!!

{&} Actually I don't know what I am doing help!


The Poet...


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[Rosebud]

Poet, you are confusing me with THG. She has used the Kelloggs, I think. I have not.

I use FFOF and the left overs I make my own soil.. I top dress w/ worm castings in veg and high P, bat guano... If they are still hungry I use Earth Juice nutes. They are organic and they work well. I am glad you will be using a soil that I know. I wish you all the good growing mojo there is.

 

[The Poet]

Rosebud,


Just got back from the Hydro store as I am hoping to go Organic.
I got 6 bags of Ocean Forest and a bag of BIG CITY! hydro mix for seedlings and clones.
Bio-thrive grow and bloom. The guy said water them "when they need it" and same with fertilizer.
Fertilize them "when they need it". I am inspired.


and Rosebud, thank you for your concern.


The Poet...♪


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[Hushpuppy]

Poet you did a lot of semi-organic growing if you gardened outside. But the one thing most "gardeners" don't realize about organics is that is directly and expressly involves the use and maintenance of the "microbe herd". Feeding the soil means that you supply all of the raw materials then you add in beneficial microbes like Mychorrizae to the soil. These microbes will break down the raw materials (natural decomposition) and take the "chelated" nutrients to the roots and trade them for natural sugars made in the plants. If this microbe herd is not taken care of, and they get weak or die, your plants will starve as they are unable to extract the nutrients from "unchelated" materials.

You will want to look at getting some beneficial microbe inoculant for your soil when you mix it. you can mix the inoculant right into the soil then water the soil with some molasses in it as that will feed the microbes and get them going.

 

[pcduck]

You're not organic are you HushPuppy?

 

[grass hopper]

i think u have been having some problems poet. if i were u, i would master the easiest form of growing first. NOT organic unless u are growing outdoors. stay with foxfarms. with babies that are to be transplanted at 1 week old from rapid rooters, to 5 by 5 or 6 by 6 pots. i put ocean forest on bottom half. top half is happy frog. i believe the happy frog is less hot on babies at first but as they grow they reach the ocean forest and take off... after about 4 weeks i transplant into 5 gallon smart pots. in a wheel barrow i mix 60% ocean forest and 40% roots greenlite. i always pack soils in 5 by 5s and in smart pots. when i did not pack soil, the watering packed soil for me and had to add more soil later.i do not feed at all for the first 4 weeks as there is enough in the soil. at the 4 week flip to 12/12 lighting i use the maximum suggested flower nutes. feed every other water. water/ feed when the soil gets dry. very simple poet and little goes wrong. jmo. use it or not.. goodluck..

 

[Rosebud]

grasshopper, well said. Thank you.

I do add mycorrhizae when I plant.

"Mycorrhizae are symbiotic relationships that form between fungi and plants. The fungi colonize the root system of a host plant, providing increased water and nutrient absorption capabilities while the plant provides the fungus with carbohydrates formed from photosynthesis."

 

[Hushpuppy]

PC: I have read a lot of info on organics and tried it a couple times. I think it is fascinating and would do it, but my back issues have left me too broke down to do the extra work. Plus I fell in love with hydro and how I am able to "micro-manage" my feeding and went away from the organics. Both ways can be a lot of work. I guess its just finding what you like. If I had a large place to grow,(and body in good health) I would probably do it both ways just for the challenge.

I personally believe "organic" fed bud tastes better than "synthetic" fed bud, to me anyway.

 

[grass hopper]

PC: I have read a lot of info on organics and tried it a couple times. I think it is fascinating and would do it, but my back issues have left me too broke down to do the extra work. Plus I fell in love with hydro and how I am able to "micro-manage" my feeding and went away from the organics. Both ways can be a lot of work. I guess its just finding what you like. If I had a large place to grow,(and body in good health) I would probably do it both ways just for the challenge.

I personally believe "organic" fed bud tastes better than "synthetic" fed bud, to me anyway.

my bud is synthetic and always goes down SO SMOOTH. like 33 degree coors light or an ultralight butt, goes down really nice. not sure why. it is fresh. rh always kept between 60 to 64%. a forever cure., xtra tite trim (no visible leaf). nice bag appeal. happy with it..never tried organic.. bucket list.. just yappin pup..:48:

 

[Hushpuppy]

When I was growing pure synthetic, mine was the same way, very smooth and clean tasting. I had/have several patients who prefer my synthetic to my "semi-organic". But I had/have many that love my "semi-organic" flavors. So for me it just works out to stay "semi-organic" as I get no complaints

 

[The Poet]

Update:


I love the Ocean Forest soil. The plants look like they are supposed to look with new growth everywhere.
However barely in flower and after changing the soil from Empire Builder to Ocean Forest they wilted so bad I was surprised they survived. After a few days the leaves all fell off, then they started putting out new growth. They are alive but had to go back into veg.

It was worth it. My plants are in Ocean Forest soil and I threw the old Empire Builder in the ditch.
A new beginning. I tried for years to grow in compacted soil. I didn't water too much or fertilize too much but the poor drainage caused that effect and the poor drainage was smothering the plants. Now we all feel better, plants and me too!

They said at the Hydro store:
to "Water when they need it"
and "fertilize when they need it"!
I'm not sure what that means but I'll veg with almost no nutes.
The guy at the store said to water 3 times and fertilize once. They gave me Bio-Thrive grow and bloom. I am hopeful that I have learned something. I have even ordered a new batch of seeds, AK-47 and Illumanati.

Oh! and can I take clones from plants that have been 14 days into flower then put back into veg? Give them a month to veg then take clones, will they hermie?



Thank you...

The Poet...♪


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[Rosebud]

Hey Poet, FFOF has enough nutrition in it for 6 weeks or so.. I wouldn't feed anything for a month and then you can do as your guy told you. When you see the beginning of the plant getting hungry, feed.

 

[Hushpuppy]

Water when they need it: always pick up the smaller pots when wet and when dry enough to see the plant begin to wilt. This will let you know how to "feel" for the weight of the moisture. You shouldn't have to do this too many times before you learn to judge moisture from the weight. Also, you can work your finger down into the soil of larger pots that you don't want to pick up. If you feel wet soil at any point then don't water. If it feels dry then water.

It is important with hand watered plants to fully saturate the soil, then allow it to almost fully dry out before saturating again. This sets up a proper wet/dry cycle that helps to aerate the soil so the roots don't drown.

Fertilize when they need it: When growing in soil that has nutrients available, you don't feed the plants. you wait until they begin to show a little yellowing or lack luster growth and then you feed them. This prevents overfeeding, which is a common problem with MJ and fish tanks. However, This can be tricky for new growers that haven't learned to read their plants. In this case you have to do a little trial and error to find out how much the plants want.

You can "feed-water-water" or you can adjust that to "feed-water-feed-water", or for plants that don't eat as much you can do feed-water-water-water-feed". There is no set plan because there is so much variation in plants, soil, strains, and nutrients. And changes in atmosphere or temp will affect how they eat. Keep watching your plants every day and you will learn the little nuances that the plants show which mean they are hungry or thirsty, or imbalance of nutes, or even bugs will cause the plants to "act" differently. It takes a while to learn these little changes that can be seen in the plants but you will learn to "listen" to the plants.

 

[The Poet]

Thank you all.
But what about taking a few clones after going back into veg for a month?



The Poet...√

 

[pcduck]

A good stable stain will not, going to take more then a month.

 

[The Poet]

Hushpuppy,


Back in the old days...
Back before I became disabled, I used to work out at the gym.
I was serious and did it to keep up with my hounds while out hunting all night.
My personal record was 131,000 Lbs in 1 1/2 hours or a thousand pounds a minute for an hour and a half.
Joe Weider was the guru of bodybuilding and trained Arnold Swartzeneger, Dave Draper and Frank Zane.
Joe Weider had a periodical with exercises and the training techniques of various bodybuilders.
My cousin subscribed to it and when he was through with them I'd bring them home an study them.

Joe Weider always said: "Listen to your body"!
Listen to your body, if it wants to work out two days in a row instead of every other day do it and if it wants to rest an extra day do that.
More food/ less food...
"Listen to your body".

Fast forwards 20 years and I hear the same advise, except it's:
"listen to your plants". Yeah I can dig it!~ and good advise it is, listen to your plants! Alright


And Rosebud... do they sell Mychorrizae at the hydro shop?


Thank you...

The Poet...♪

 

[pcduck]

Yes they sell it at hydro stores.