Trimming water leaves 3 weeks into flower

[The Hemp Goddess]

...When it's "assaulted" for lack of a better word, It strengthens itself like any living organism. As well, like any other organism, if you attack/wound it, It's still wounded and it is going to take time to heal especially if you go a bit overboard...

I'm not sure where you came up with that, but it is really not true with regards to most (maybe all) living things. Most living organism that you assault/attack/wound do NOT end up stronger. They are ultimately weaker. And as Roddy mentioned, they should be making bud, not trying to heal themselves at this point in their lives.

 

[migia]

I'm not sure where you came up with that, but it is really not true with regards to most (maybe all) living things. Most living organism that you assault/attack/wound do NOT end up stronger. They are ultimately weaker. And as Roddy mentioned, they should be making bud, not trying to heal themselves at this point in their lives.

[Just a question] With all due respect.....

Is this not the whole point of FIM, supercropping, and topping (the bolded, quoted sentence)? We wouldnt want them weaker, I think partybro is correct.......

 

[PartyBro420]

Well, anything that has an immune system, when able to fight off an invading bacteria, while being weaker right off the bat after spending energy to repair the damage done, it becomes accustomed to what it has to do in order to fight it off more efficiently if it should return, or change.

All living things change and adapt and strengthen themselves to the conditions they're presented with. Plants are no different.

Marijuana plants have already shown you all this whether you've watched it with open eyes or not... Stalks thicken because of wind, plants reach for sunlight. They adapt to the conditions they're presented with in order to ensure the survival of species.

I never said go crazy and start hacking away at the plant. I came to the conclusion that it's pointless to do it as well. Just from a different thought pattern than you may have.

If you're comparing breaking a leaf off a plant to a quadruped or biped breaking a limb, that's a gross over-comparison. Breaking a limb would be akin to taking the stalk of the plant and bending it 90 degrees to one side.

What I meant before by "speeding" up the flowering, I think you may have mis-interpreted also. The plant is going to flower until you remove it from flowering conditions, or brutalize it to the point it needs to re-veg. You're ultimately in control of how long you allow your plant to flower before harvesting it. So perhaps "speeding up" wasn't the correct term to use there.

I'm not advising people to trim leaves, nor am I saying it's a bad idea. Everyone has their own methods, and reasons for using them. You'd all be liars if you said there weren't loads of places around the internet with instructions to trim minor foliage.

Far be it from me to tell you what to do, but give people your opinion rather than telling someone else their opinion is wrong or bad, because whether you use the methods or not, many people have seen success as a result of this, and many have seen failure.

Edit: Also, I mean no disrespect by answering this question because the answer seems very pompous, but THG I learned that in High School Biology.

 

[migia]

Well, anything that has an immune system, when able to fight off an invading bacteria, while being weaker right off the bat after spending energy to repair the damage done, it becomes accustomed to what it has to do in order to fight it off more efficiently if it should return, or change.

All living things change and adapt and strengthen themselves to the conditions they're presented with. Plants are no different.

I am not experienced with cannabis botany, however, this is the exact logic I was using myself as I believe it may be applied here. I believe those statements above are consistent and correct in general.

A perfect example: the flu shot. This is exactly how it works.

Again, not a professional but I will confess that I do read a hell of a lot about a hell of a lot!!

 

[Roddy]

[Just a question] With all due respect.....

Is this not the whole point of FIM, supercropping, and topping (the bolded, quoted sentence)? We wouldnt want them weaker, I think partybro is correct.......

I believe the reason for fimming etc is to make the plant bigger, give you more nodes. I surely don't hurt my plant to make it stronger, I don't think that's the way to go at all. Hurting a plant does one thing, makes it get healthy again. Since you're hurting the plant during the most important part of the budding cycle, making it use it's energies to heal detracts from it's ability to produce buds. Of course, the plant heals, but then it is behind in budding and you surely know it can't just magically make that time up...right?

So, at best, you're delaying harvest...not sure how this is considered speeding up the growth.

Fimming etc is done during veg, MAYBE early bud if situation demands it, at a time when the gal can direct it's energies to heal and not slow the growth as much!

 

[Roddy]

Well, anything that has an immune system, when able to fight off an invading bacteria, while being weaker right off the bat after spending energy to repair the damage done, it becomes accustomed to what it has to do in order to fight it off more efficiently if it should return, or change.

I think the boldened part shows that you understand hurting a plant weakens, slows growth and is not helping in bud stage.

I also hope you realize taking leaves is more like denying the plant food more than getting a virus and that the plant will not re-grow the powerhouse used to continue to feed.

 

[Roddy]

Imagine it as an electric plant, the electricity is produced by the turbines (or whatever). Say there's 20 turbines producing power, you take 3 away, are you going to be producing as much power??

 

[Roddy]

A perfect example: the flu shot. This is exactly how it works.

You're not giving it a shot, you're removing it's power plants, stuff that won't be replaced during bud.

 

[PartyBro420]

I think you're overcomplicating things now. And perhaps taking things meant as general comparisons a little too directly. The bold part you took from what I had said, doesn't mean that something is going to turn out weaker in the end. And we're not growing to just stare at them at 3/4 full maturity.

I hesitate to speak for more than myself, but I believe what we're trying to get across is we're not directly comparing the different things like a flu shot, or a broken leg, in 100% direct context. giving a plant a flu shot could mean giving it a dosage of anything to aid in reversing a negative effect.

Might not have been the best example to use a flu shot, but the idea is still there that the antibodies will recognize the virus the next time it's present and deal with it faster.

If topping a plant isn't hurting it, then trimming leaves wouldn't be either. I don't understand the logic behind your statement?

"I believe the reason for fimming etc is to make the plant bigger, give you more nodes. I surely don't hurt my plant to make it stronger, I don't think that's the way to go at all. Hurting a plant does one thing, makes it get healthy again."

We're not talking about hurting the plants to the point that is going to shock them into any sort of state. Mother nature does this naturally to plants with wind and rain... So if it appears as a natural condition, why would it be bad to simulate it? Most genetics have become accustomed to wind and rain obviously over the years, or they would never survive.

I think we're all confusing things into a muddled together topic.

 

[migia]

A perfect example: the flu shot. This is exactly how it works.

You're not giving it a shot, you're removing it's power plants, stuff that won't be replaced during bud.

Understood......
Thats why i wrote "in general" in my previous post.

I was being abstract......Generalizing is an excellent approach when we are unsure (whats better?). I only want to help here; teach people what I know and learn what they know at the same time.....ya know?
Knowledge: it's all so powerful!

 

[dman1234]

What an amussing read.

 

[Roddy]

If topping a plant isn't hurting it, then trimming leaves wouldn't be either. I don't understand the logic behind your statement?

Not many of us top a plant 3 weeks into budding. Topping a plant during veg will indeed slow the grow as well. We're talking two different things here...cutting a plant's branches/topping as opposed to taking away it's ability to photosynthesize.

I'm listening with an open mind, I just haven't seen a thing that would sway me to believe taking leaves off helps in any manner...

 

[Roddy]

We're not talking about hurting the plants to the point that is going to shock them into any sort of state. Mother nature does this naturally to plants with wind and rain... So if it appears as a natural condition

What we are talking is reducing a plant's ability to photosynthesize, all injury shock aside!

I have several plants, any one I walk up to and give a tug to a leaf will mean the leaf stays in place unless given a very forceful tug...because they're healthy leaves on healthy plants. Mother nature doesn't take the healthy leaves with wind or rain...imhe.

 

[Roddy]

One last thing to remember, we're not out to "mimic" mother nature with indoor grows, we should be out to give the absolute best conditions possible.

 

[PartyBro420]

If mother nature can snap a tree down it can most certainly take a leaf off a MJ plant.

We may not be trying to mimic mother nature with our indoor grows, but I still don't think it's such a terrible thing to do if you believe it works and end up with no negative results.

As for topping, maybe I'm not so familiar with it, but would you not also be taking off some leaf with this as well?

mother nature includes animals and humans, anything that's a part of life IMO.
Like for instance, a deer or family of deer for generations have been grazing an area with mj in it, since deer like to eat it, eventually the seeds produced from the plants would likely stop itself from flowering on the lower portion, and grow to a height at which the deer could no longer reach it without toppling the plant, to adapt to avoid loss in the future. This could take 15-100 generations worth of breeding to see, but it eventually would present itself.

This technique may be better suited to long term breeding projects where certain goals are in mind as opposed to our personal stash.

Like I mentioned before though, I won't be trimming anything any more because I came to the conclusion that even though I believe it does something, the pros still weigh even with the cons in my mind so the extra effort is a mute point.

 

[Roddy]

If mother nature can snap a tree down it can most certainly take a leaf off a MJ plant.

My point is it isn't the norm, it's damage caused by excess.

We may not be trying to mimic mother nature with our indoor grows, but I still don't think it's such a terrible thing to do if you believe it works and end up with no negative results.

You may not be able to tell negative results, but there's no doubt a plant deprived of it's ability to work will not be optimum and that equates to negative results...imho

mother nature includes animals and humans, anything that's a part of life IMO.
Like for instance, a deer or family of deer for generations have been grazing an area with mj in it, since deer like to eat it, eventually the seeds produced from the plants would likely stop itself from flowering on the lower portion, and grow to a height at which the deer could no longer reach it without toppling the plant, to adapt to avoid loss in the future. This could take 15-100 generations worth of breeding to see, but it eventually would present itself.

LOL...dunno about you, but I don't have that kind of time and truly, I'm not out to re-invent the wheel!! Pappy always told me, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

This technique may be better suited to long term breeding projects where certain goals are in mind as opposed to our personal stash.

I can think of no instance this would be beneficial, but I am open to learning...

I'm guessing many people have tried this, I haven't seen much saying it's a good practice.

 

[ozzydiodude]

mother nature includes animals and humans, anything that's a part of life IMO.
Like for instance, a deer or family of deer for generations have been grazing an area with mj in it, since deer like to eat it, eventually the seeds produced from the plants would likely stop itself from flowering on the lower portion, and grow to a height at which the deer could no longer reach it without toppling the plant, to adapt to avoid loss in the future. This could take 15-100 generations worth of breeding to see, but it eventually would present itself.

I see 8 point deriffes with enough neck roast to last all yr :rofl:

 

[Roddy]

lol Ozzy......

 

[PartyBro420]

The deer thing was an example of how mother nature doesn't just involve the elements to alter the way other things grow/live.

No one person has that kind of time anyway unless they're devoted to the project. That's a (possible) minimum of 5 years if you do everything correctly, all the way up to a quarter of a century to see your results if you manage approx 4 different harvests a year.

I don't feel like going on and on about this any longer, it's the second time it's come up and caused a crazy amount of controversy.

I can think of one great one, off the top of my head. Teaching genetics to cope with minor loss of ability to photosynthesise. I'm positive there are numerous other ideas that have yet to be imagined as well.

Again, I don't want to put words in anyones mouth, but it seems to me as if you're assuming that I'm just talking about butchering a plant basically.

I agree that there is less potential for harm in veg stage for cutting, because it's just gonna grow more, but you're never going to convince the people that still do it in flower and don't come to a conclusion themselves that it doesn't work for them, or doesn't do what it's meant to.

maybe i'm crazy and just think too much about it, but it all makes sense in my head :icon_smile: I hope I didn't seem like I was trying to step on anyones toes, I'm a very passionate person about nature/energy because it's all intertwined.

We can all agree to disagree on this I think.

 

[Roddy]

but it seems to me as if you're assuming that I'm just talking about butchering a plant basically.

No, PB, I understand what you're saying and all. For me, even a few leaves taken is too much...take no leaf before it's time!

but you're never going to convince the people that still do it in flower and don't come to a conclusion themselves that it doesn't work for them, or doesn't do what it's meant to.

Maybe I just don't understand what it's "meant to" do? What benefits are you supposed to see from taking the leaves?

I hope I didn't seem like I was trying to step on anyones toes, I'm a very passionate person about nature/energy because it's all intertwined.

Not at all, I think we share a passion! It's great to actually discuss and disagree in a friendly manner!

We can all agree to disagree on this I think.

Yes, yes we can...unless you'd like to change you view! :rofl: J/K, my friend!