Bud Production

[BBFan]

Height = distance. There is a lot of garbage spoken about this.
The "inverse square law" only applies to a point source of light that is spreading out in the form of a sphere, i.e. in free space.
When you use a reflector you concentrate the light into a beam with a pattern.

I might debate that one with you my friend. Although the use of reflectors may impact the actual numbers- the law does still apply. Even a concentrated beam (laser) will only go so far before it becomes unmeasurable.

Your point about using reflectors with cfl's is a good one. With properly reflective surfaces they can also be quite effective.

 

[tester]

and now im confused even more lol

 

[zem]

and now im confused even more lol

lol... just add the lights already get them closer to plants, you're losing valuable flowering days, theyr waiting for that light

 

[tester]

ok ok after umming and arghhhing ive gone and bought another 2 cool tubes and instead of 400's they are 600's so now there is 2000w in total, also bought a nice pair of sun glasses to go in the room haha only joking but yes i did put the new cool tubes in

 

[BBFan]

The buds will increase energy to compensate by investing in their "mini-fan leaves", and more of the plants bud sites get more needed light.

I don't understand what you mean by this statement. The buds will increase energy." Everything I have read, seen, and been told is that buds are the recipients of energy- not producers of it.

By investing in their "mini-fan leaves", doesn't that also say that flower production is negatively affected? Wouldn't that be like running a battleship on a couple "AA" batteries?

Where did you find this information? Can you cite a source or is it from personal observation?

 

[tester]

I don't understand what you mean by this statement. The buds will increase energy." Everything I have read, seen, and been told is that buds are the recipients of energy- not producers of it.

By investing in their "mini-fan leaves", doesn't that also say that flower production is negatively affected? Wouldn't that be like running a battleship on a couple "AA" batteries?

Where did you find this information? Can you cite a source or is it from personal observation?

Exactly what i was thinking BB

 

[Strawberry Cough]

Sorry if my English and/or explaining in writing isn't clear.

Simply I don't see negative to moderate trimming, as the mini-fan leaves take over for the larger fan leaves, and they have added bonus of more trich production and less light blockage to the other parts of the plant.

Can't add more lights, and 10 plants in 4 pots has been thinned down to 4 plants in 4 pots in small closet. I am thinking of thinning out another one because not enough room and light coverage. The shaded parts grow less, so I have to rotate every few days.

Thinking about maybe adding a flat T-5 HO if I can find one that fits my set-up.

 

[BBFan]

Sorry if my English and/or explaining in writing isn't clear.

they have added bonus of more trich production and less light blockage to the other parts of the plant.

Your english seems fine to me. I think I understand what you're saying.

Just wondering about some of your comments, that's all. To most of us, it's all about increasing trich production. I'm just wondering if you're saying that by allowing more light to hit the buds and bud leaves you end up with more trich production?

I've harvested plenty of lower buds that probably never got hit with direct light- and they always seem to have as much trich coverage as the buds directly in the light on the same plant.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

Your english seems fine to me. I think I understand what you're saying.

Just wondering about some of your comments, that's all. To most of us, it's all about increasing trich production. I'm just wondering if you're saying that by allowing more light to hit the buds and bud leaves you end up with more trich production?

I've harvested plenty of lower buds that probably never got hit with direct light- and they always seem to have as much trich coverage as the buds directly in the light on the same plant.

Yes, it seems evident to me that the buds with the most light are the most developed including size and trich production. The shaded parts of my plants seems to have the smallest and least developed buds.

 

[zem]

SC when you're trimming your plant to downsize it if absoluetely necessary then cut some bottom fanleaf with its budsite dont cut fan leaf from top to bottom leaving only budsites thats not fun you're going to destroy your yield while we try help you and make everyone feel bad since this forum is to help grow not to show destruction of grows so before you go chop chop ask some questions you'll always find help and i'm really sincere NOT joking or mocking or ridiculing i am serious this is not fun, you seem like a much smarter guy than that mgfcom to stick to such wrong scientifically false claims, theyr not part of you just dump em and go with the truth

 

[tester]

Im not a fan of cuttings and chopping up plants, prefered just shelling out more money for lighting better i the long run

 

[Strawberry Cough]

SC when you're trimming your plant to downsize it if absoluetely necessary then cut some bottom fanleaf with its budsite dont cut fan leaf from top to bottom leaving only budsites thats not fun you're going to destroy your yield while we try help you and make everyone feel bad since this forum is to help grow not to show destruction of grows so before you go chop chop ask some questions you'll always find help and i'm really sincere NOT joking or mocking or ridiculing i am serious this is not fun, you seem like a much smarter guy than that mgfcom to stick to such wrong scientifically false claims, theyr not part of you just dump em and go with the truth

Listen To Me One & All: I Am Not Advocating Chopping Off All Leaves.

I Trimmed As An Experiment To See If This Can Help Increase Light Penetration & Thus Bud Production.

Do Not Misunderstand This As Definitive Advice To Chop Off All Leaves.

I Am Taking Break From This Forum - Too Many Of You Are Too Uptight And Attack And Berate For Taking A Chance And Experimenting.

 

[Hick]

I don't understand what you mean by this statement. The buds will increase energy." Everything I have read, seen, and been told is that buds are the recipients of energy- not producers of it.

By investing in their "mini-fan leaves", doesn't that also say that flower production is negatively affected? Wouldn't that be like running a battleship on a couple "AA" batteries?

Where did you find this information? Can you cite a source or is it from personal observation?

He is rewriting the laws of botany...:doh: and now is "spreading" the mis-information across the board.
Everything he's said goes against the basic laws of botany. He is "WRONG".. and my conscience and duty require that I dispute it and not allow it stated as truth or fact. For the sake of future members.

The buds that recieve the most light produce the biggests, most thc, ect. for several reasons. One being the channeling, directing of hormones, another because their FAN leaves are closest to, and are recieving the strongest, most light.
THE FAN LEAVES ARE WHERE THE BULK OF PHOTOSYNTHESIS TAKES PLACE.. NOT ON TINY .."SPEAR LEAVES" (NEW BOTANICAL TERM) OR ON STEMS, STALKS, OR FLOWERS.
When fan leaves are removed, the ability of the plant to metabolize is drastically reduced, eliminated. It "IS NOT" beneficial to the plant.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

He is rewriting the laws of botany...:doh: and now is "spreading" the mis-information across the board.
Everything he's said goes against the basic laws of botany. He is "WRONG".. and my conscience and duty require that I dispute it and not allow it stated as truth or fact. For the sake of future members.

Very well. An intelligent discussion is welcomed.

THE FAN LEAVES ARE WHERE THE BULK OF PHOTOSYNTHESIS TAKES PLACE.. NOT ON TINY .."SPEAR LEAVES" (NEW BOTANICAL TERM) OR ON STEMS, STALKS, OR FLOWERS.

Sorry for misunderstanding in chosen terms; I read the term "spear leaves" actually here, at MP, Hick. So let's establish common ground with a shared and common vocabulary of terms. How would you like to classify the leaves. Large Fan Leaves, and then what? Smaller Fan Leaves, and then Bud Leaves? Please let us establish common vocabulary because I think this is reason for some of the misunderstanding here as to what I have done.

When fan leaves are removed, the ability of the plant to metabolize is drastically reduced, eliminated. It "IS NOT" beneficial to the plant.

Maybe this is correct. I know that moderate pruning on nearly all other plants is helpful because the plant will not stop growing; it will simply continue to grow in another direction, just as you have observed that topping does not kill the plant. The plant compensates and continues to grow in the way that is natural for it to compensate in its struggle to survive and reproduce.

The Sun's Light pervades everywhere. It is not from one direction only as people have wrongly posted here. The sunlights light is refracted through our atmosphere and is reflected from everywhere in all directions. Plants get sunlight from all directions: direct light, refracted light, reflected light...

I think some people are just too uptight to experiment and try new things. If I have less yielded bud on one plant because of this experiment, then so be it.

But if I learn something new (even not this, but a side-effect), then I have gained.

 

[cmd420]

"But if I learn something new (even not this, but a side-effect), then I have gained."

If you aren't familiar with the effect of removing leaves during flower, then you will definitely benefit from your experiement...

I am getting frustrated trying to give advice but that is just because I see myself in the things you are doing...I need to learn the hard way as well...

Now that I think about it like that, I actually feel rather affectionate towards S.C....

We need to learn the same way...nothin wrong with that, I suppose..


but really, out of care and concern for you and your grow, S.C. ...re think your position on the whole leaf removal thing...

either way...have a good grow and have fun...sincerely...

I guess you are as hard headed as I am

 

[NorCalHal]

My 2 cents....

I just puffed a FAT kusher to my head, so bear with me.

I'm trippin on the "fan leaf" , "mini fan leaf" thing. IMO, true fan leaves are connected directly to the Main stems of the Plant. Sometimes they are on the main stalk, but leaves that are connected to individual stems are also "fan leaves" imo.
The "Mini leaves" are what is produced in some bud while flowering, NOT directly connected to the Main plant stalk itself. These have little value to tric OR bud development. They do aid in the plants overall health, thats for sure.

Hick has allready stated the facts

THE FAN LEAVES ARE WHERE THE BULK OF PHOTOSYNTHESIS TAKES PLACE.. NOT ON TINY .."SPEAR LEAVES" (NEW BOTANICAL TERM) OR ON STEMS, STALKS, OR FLOWERS.
When fan leaves are removed, the ability of the plant to metabolize is drastically reduced, eliminated. It "IS NOT" beneficial to the plant.

Photosynthesis being the KEY to the whole discussion here. The plants energy source. Without ample amounts ofsugars produced naturally thru photosysthesis, the plant will not produce to it's full potential.

So, with that said, cutting of any Major fan leaves is just not a good thing to do. Some of the best buds I've smoked are the ones hidden beneath the big fan leaves.

There is allways a flip side to the coin too. It is beneficial to trim up your plants and remove some leaves and branches. ALLWAYS start from the bottom and go up when pruning a plant.
You gotta figure a HID lights penetrating depth is somewhere around 4 feet. That is for a 1000w HID, not to sure about others, but I am sure it is easy to look up, google rox. So, for me, anything under that 3.5' to 4' "line" gets cut out. If a particular branch has a top the reaches the "line" but some of the branch does not, I will trim up that particular brach, not just cut the whole thing off.

So, moral of the story is, leave the leaves alone. That sounded cool huh?