Chemicle lockout?

[pax125]

I have three White Widow growing with the pics shown below. From what I've read it appears to be a potassium lockout. Maybe you guys and girls can give me a confirmation and what I can do to resolve the issue. I change the water every two weeks. These are my specs 2x4 ebb and flow a month into bloom. (1) 1000W HPS. Average 80 degrees with 40% humidity. 25 gal res. PH 5.8-6. Nutes: Gen Hydro micro 25tsp, grow 12tsp, bloom 32tsp, cal mag 10 tsp, hygrozyme 12 tsp Advanced big bud bloom 25 tsp. Thanks for everyones help!

 

[mick909]

i grow in soil and not all familiar with hydro, but i would do an emergy flush and cut ur nutes in half jorge cerventas always says "less is more" use 1/2 of recommended untill u get it and the "advanced big bud bloom" u speak of is "Gen hydro 's kool bloom"? which replaces ur flower nute 2 or so weeks b4 u flush

 

[Hushpuppy]

Check your PH meter for accuracy. If everything is as you say then you shouldn't be seeing this. One leaf looks more like Manganese def, while the second leaf looks like a combination of calcium and/or magnesium def. It has been my experience that when it appears to be multiple deficiencies, then the PH is out of range, or a toxicity issue is occuring. Since you are changing out every 2 weeks, toxicity shouldn't be an issue.

What kind of medium are you using? How much of the plant looks like this? is it just a leaf or 2 on the bottoms of the plants or is it all over them in random order, only on the lower half of the plants? How long has this been occuring? Do you have a TDS tester? what is your ppm or EC reading?

 

[pax125]

My nutes have already been near cut in half. This is the big buds:

http://store.organicagardensupply.c...806611&adposition=1o2&admatchtype=&adkeyword=


I am currently looking for a meter. I've been looking at the HANNA HI 98129 Hoping to find one on ebay or such.. Now I am using the drops method. Which I wouldn't think would be that inaccurate! 90% of the leaves look like this on all 3 plants. I use 4" Rockwool cubes with the Sunleaves rocks. It's been going on since about a couple of weeks into bloom. I do not have a TDS however it is included in the Hanna that I will be purchasing in the next couple of days.

 

[pax125]

Also if anyone has other ideas on a cost effective meter? Around $100

 

[Hushpuppy]

I use Bluelab which is a little more expensive, but the Hanna is a very reliable meter in my experience. For the price of it I think it is a solid purchase. The drops just aren't that precise as you have to add the precise amount then judge the comparison colors by eye which is subject to the color of the existing light you are in. Also, with MJ the PH being off a few tenths can be the difference between lockout and ok.

Just make sure you get the calibrating fluids that go with the Hanna meter and keep the probe in the 4.0 calibration fluid when not in use, or in a jar of clean water that is no higher than 6.0PH. This will help the meter stay calibrated longer as they all get out of calibration over time and have to be recalibrated.

I am quite convinced that the PH is off as I went back and looked at some pictures of deficiencies and that looks to be multiple deficiencies, which is almost always PH, however, Let me ask you, how do you mix your nutrients? be specific with each step and all the amounts.

 

[grass hopper]

I have three White Widow growing with the pics shown below. From what I've read it appears to be a potassium lockout. Maybe you guys and girls can give me a confirmation and what I can do to resolve the issue. I change the water every two weeks. These are my specs 2x4 ebb and flow a month into bloom. (1) 1000W HPS. Average 80 degrees with 40% humidity. 25 gal res. PH 5.8-6. Nutes: Gen Hydro micro 25tsp, grow 12tsp, bloom 32tsp, cal mag 10 tsp, hygrozyme 12 tsp Advanced big bud bloom 25 tsp. Thanks for everyones help![/quote

i"m not a hydrogrower, but if 90% of your leaves look like this, your in trouble.
if you only have 3 plants, can you get them OUTDOORS for 2-4 days w/ approx. 6 hours sunlight each day. the sun is miraculous at fixing problems FAST !! then flush. if you can find a spot for a few days, i"ll bet they recover almost overnight. JMHO

 

[Hushpuppy]

Getting some natural sunlight isn't a bad thing by any stretch but this problem is in the chemistry and that must be fixed or no amount of natural sun is going to help. There is still time to save the plants but yield decreases with each day lost. The sooner we can get an accurate PH reading the sooner we can get to fixing it before too much is lost.

 

[pax125]

My method is simple. I add to the res. the micro, mix well, then add the additional nutes, cycle and test ph. The big buds has around the same ingredients as the gh bloom. Could this cause a nuts burn as I am fairly new to using it. Should I flush with clearex or plain water if I do? The clearex I have is about two years old. Does it have that long of a shelf life?

 

[grass hopper]

Getting some natural sunlight isn't a bad thing by any stretch but this problem is in the chemistry and that must be fixed or no amount of natural sun is going to help. There is still time to save the plants but yield decreases with each day lost. The sooner we can get an accurate PH reading the sooner we can get to fixing it before too much is lost.

i have had so many diff. types of problems in past w/ artificial light. as soon as i put outdoors, they recover almost overnight. along w/ a flush i hoped it should help alot. these plants are in trouble. if 90% of leaves are that bad, i will submit " you are brilliant", if you can fix.. a challenge!

i"m sure you are correct. just trying to help. THANKS SO MUCH FOR HELPING ME IN PAST!!

 

[Hushpuppy]

Your mixing method sounds ok(mixing in the micro first before adding other nutes), accept that you say that you add to the rez the different elements and mix. I don't believe that is causing your problem but it could be adding to it. You should always mix your nutes in a spearate container then add it to the rez(unless you are only doing that when you change out the rez water every 2 weeks). Are you only giving them this water/nute solution once every 2 weeks or do you top up your rez between changes as the plants drink up the water?

Given that you change your water every 2 weeks and that you are in rockwool rather than another medium that holds chemicals better, I am not inclined to recommend flushing as it doesn't look like overnute. And when you have a problem like this, you need to act quickly but you don't want to try multiple things at once as that can complicate the problem. The very first and most important thing is to verify the PH. PH is central in MJ grows in hydroponics, and they live and die by the PH.

 

[pax125]

Okay. I'm about to purchase a new hanna HI 98129 multimeter today from eBay and it should be here in the next few days hopefully given the weekend. Can I use gh ph and Tds solution to calibrate it or do i need hanna? I only add the nutes when I do the water change. I will mix nutes before i do a change next just to be safe. When filling in between I only use water to top off. When I receive this meter what is the optimal ph in your opinion?

 

[Hushpuppy]

The optimal PH for hydroponics is 5.8 but it is allowable to let it drift across the spectrum from 5.3 to 6.2 without causing issues. If you monitor your resevoir across the 2 week period, you will see the PH drift in one direction or the other, and sometimes back again as the plants use water and nutrients.

I think we may have found your problem. You set up the nutrients and water at first and then top up with plain water, but I bet you aren't monitoring the PH throughtout. I check and adjust my rez PH every other day as mine drifts pretty quick due to being in coco coir medium. Also, I add nutes every time I add water and readjust the PH.

I think what's happening with yours is that you set up the nutes initially and they are able to draw in for a couple days until the chemical ballance moves enough to get the PH out of range and then the plants are no longer able to take in anymore nutrients. I suggest that you will need to check your PH and adjust it every 3rd day. I have found with mine that my PH drifts downward, so I always set mine at the top of the range(6.0-6.2) and then by the 3rd day it has drifted down below 5.0. If it needs more water, I mix up a bucket of nutrients at the normal level of mixture and then adjust the PH so that when the new mixes with the rez, it will bring the PH back to 6.0.

After mixing in the new water/solution, I let it mix in for about 10min then check the PH again to see if it needs a final adjustment. If the rez doesn't need anymore water, I still pull out a cup-full and check the PH and add adjuster to the cup and pour it back into the rez and allow it to mix for 10min and check/adjust again until it is back at 6.0-6.2

As for the calibration fluids, I don't know if the GH calibration fluid is compatible with the Hanna or not. It most likely is for the PH setting but the TDS could be incompatible as there are a couple different measurement parameters that are used to calculate TDS, and each method requires a different calibration fluid. As soon as you get your meter, check the instructions on calibrating then check the calibration with your fluid(but don't calibrate it as it may not need it) just put it in the fluid and see if it is reading what it is supposed to read(which will most likely be correct).

When was the last time you checked the PH of your rez with your other kit?

 

[pax125]

Cool. I try my best to keep it exactly that, 5.8. I do check it every three days and it drifts slightly upward. About .5. This bucket of nutes that you mix I assume is with water and not just raw nutes? Especially the bloom which from what I understand should be mixed separate. From what I read if it is a potassium issue the range to keep from lockout is 5.8-6.1.
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1833&d=1141100090
In the three days after you add nutes you say you make the ph a little high so that it will offset your mixture in a few days. Does that not effect the plants in those three days? I will add the nutes when adding water before I add to the rez as you suggested. It's just odd that this is happening now as it has never really effected them too much in this stage in previous crops. My newest ingredient is big buds and I think this could be part of the issue. Nonetheless like you say it does appear to be a lockout rather than a burn. I was taking them of off the table when cleaning it with scotch brite and sometimes a light bleach/water spray for disinfecting purposes. Now I fear moving them could be aggravating them. I know they can't take much stress. I will get a designated ppm chem for the new meter. Here is a couple of sad photos of the plants as a whole and of the rez so you have even a better idea of just how extreme this is getting. Sorry they were sleeping when they were taken. I can upload more and or better if needed The buds still look great. It's just the entire other part of the plant that is burning up.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

I personally would be starting my pH lower. There are some nutes that are uptaken at lower pH. In addition. strips are so inaccurate and color differences are so subtle that I doubt that you were getting any kind of accurate reading from them.

I also recommend letting the nutes set overnight and allow any buffers to work before you pH. I would also just run the GH nutes and Cal-Mag for now.

I would venture to say that if someone has problems inside under artificial lights that they do not have outdoors that there is some other part of the indoor environment that is causing problems like lack of ventilation or RH problems--the sun is not going to help anything except provide more light.

 

[Hushpuppy]

Yeah, I would agree with everything Goddess just said here. I start mine higher because I am in coco coir and I use nutrients that don't have buffers. Mine drifts down so I start it a little high so that as it drifts down, it will have the chance to go through the full range of acceptable PH. But For you being in GH nutrients (which I forgot has buffers), you should actually start a little low if it drifts up. If you are correct that yours only drifts upward and only about .5 that's not too bad at all. However, I am more inclined than ever to think the problem is still with testing the PH, but I could be wrong as I didn't realize that the Big Bud is new for this round of grow. I haven't used any of those nutes but it is possible that the big bud is interfering with the chemical ballance and is locking out the nutes by being too high in something that is blocking the other chems. I would discontinue the Big bud until you can get them back straight.

When I say I mix nutes in a bucket first, I mean that I fill a 5gal bucket with fresh water and then add my chems (starting with micro) one at a time and mix in thoroughly before adding the next. Then after mixing all nutes I check the PH and adjust before adding it to my resevoir. As Goddess said, you need to mix the nutes and allow it time to buffer before making any adjustments or adding to your rez. And I add nutes every time I add water. Unfortunately, I don't know the GH flora well enough to say that you should do the same.

 

[mick909]

I havent used bigg bud but the reason i started leaning tward that being part of your problem is I had a problem a lil like this few years ago when I first started using great white(hardener) and cha-ching(ripener)

 

[pax125]

If I should let it sit overnight to allow buffers to work what am I to do when doing a water change? Have a 2nd rez? Do u really think I should discontinue the hygrozyme as well?

 

[Hushpuppy]

Yeah you may have to do that if your rez is that big. I have several 5gal buckets for doing mine but I don't have to let mine sit. I would discontinue the use of the hygrozyme as well until you can figure out what is causing the problem. Something I have forgotten to ask you is about your water. Do you know the contents of your water and how pure it is. If it has high TDS then that could cause the chemical imballance.

 

[pax125]

I left out the hygrozyme as well this time. I have been using it for years and never had any root issues but i will try as instructed although reluctant to change too much at once. My meter should be here today or tomorrow. Why is it that u don't need yours to sit? As far as my water I use a hydrologic small boy to filter. I let my water sit overnight last night to buffer and my ph raised around .2 as far as I can tell with my ph drops for testing. What is an acceptable Tds as I will be testing for the first time when I receive the meter and how do I make adjustments to it if necessary? Thanks again for everyone's advise!