My first grow has begun

[theyorker]

I posted a previous thread, but it was lame, so I'm starting new.

On Monday I germinated 14 seeds (7 White Widow and 7 unknown) and by Tuesday afternoon 6 had sprouted so I planted them and got them under light. This morning 4 more sprouted and I planted them and when I went to put them under the lights I noticed 3 little sprouts breaking throught the dirt!!!

Attached are pictures of my veg chamber and my grow box. The last picture is a close up into my veg chamber through the fan hole. If you look closely you will see 2 little sprouts sticking up basking in the light.

The mix I planted them in is called Jungle Grow Professional Growers Mix. It is made up of the following (from the bag):

Sphagnum Canadian Peat Moss (60%) -Our triple screened, long-fibered Canadian cold climate peat provides better aeration in the soil then sedge peat.

Composted Aged Pine Bark - Naturally aged bark is ground to 0 - 1/8 inch consistency. The bark is non-compacting, with disease suppression properties, and will not harm the roots or burn up available nitrogen as non composted barks can.

Perlite
Vermaculite
Charcoal
Lime

Gauranteed Analysis:
Total Nitrogen: 0.16%
Total Phosphate 0.06%
Total Potash 0.08%

I'm just giving them filtered water and I use a spray bottle to get the soil good and wet in the morning and in the evening. I'm thinking I'll start using a veging fert in 10 - 14 days.

The lights I'm using are 6 20 watt flourescent T12 tubes (1,200 lumens each, 6,500K temp). The problem with these light fixtures is the ballist is wired and mounted into the fixture. I won't bore you with details, but trust me it was a pain in the butt removing the ballast and cutting wires and reattaching wires. Hopefully the end result will prove it was worth the effort.

I put a 6" 440CFM inline fan in my attic and attached venting to the top of my box. On the bottom I have a vent that leads into my office, which is under central a/c and always at 70 degrees. I've got the box air tight (except for the 2 vent holes) so I think I'm getting really good airflow (the thing is making almost as much noise as the A/C blower in my house).

I've been doing a lot of reading and thinking and decided I am going to go with flourescent lights for my flower chamber as well. I just hope I can keep this metal box cool with all those flourescent bulbs inside. I'm going to have a total of 20 2 foot light fixtures, each running two bulbs, inside the box. I'm hoping I can keep the temperature below 80.

Well this is it so far. I'll be updating and posting from now until harvest. Thanks for the help in getting started and I can't wait until the day where I don't have to call Billy anymore!!!

 

[night501]

ok so you said you are using filtered water. are you letting it breath before giving it to the plant? even though the water is filtered you could still have chemical additives like chlorine. just let the water sit out overnight uncovered.

 

[theyorker]

I have a hypothesis that color temp is more important then total lumens in overall plant life. We all know that blue light works for vegetating plants and red light is needed for flowering plants. However most flourescents I've seen (including all Compact FL) have a warm bulb used for flowering and the color temperature of these bulbs is 3,000K. In the 2' T12 flourescents that GE makes, the warm bulb puts out 1,350 lumens and has a color temperature of 3,000K. They offer a Plant and Aquarium bulb that only puts out 600 lumens with a color temp of 2700K. The challenge in using a bulb like this is getting enough lumens at that color temperature. My plan is to use 36 bulbs for flowering (24 Plant & Aquarium & 12 Daylight) This combo will give me total lumens of 27,000 for 8 square feet or 3,375 lumens of light per square foot. Well I bought my fixtures and bulbs today and flourescents aren't cheap. The final tally: 19 fixtures @ $18 each and 42 bulbs - 18 Daylight @ $5 each and 24 Plant & Aquarium @ $9 each. So that is a total of $685.

Now many of you will say I could have spent $300 on a dual ballist system with a HID system and gotten a lot more light. My hypothesis is that by literally surrounding my plants with light on all sides with a perfect temperature that my results will be superior to those acheived with HID. To bad I couldn't have done this for a science experiment!!!:laugh:

 

[Hick]

overall efficiency(luminosity per watt) is much higher on hid's than flo's, too.
For almost $700, you could be running 2-1k hid's. (approx. 150,000 lumens HPS and 100,000 for the mh..each)
..a considerable more "bang for your buck"...

 

[theyorker]

That sounds great in theory Hick, but there is no way I could keep that cool in such a small area is there?

 

[theyorker]

Cyberquest I'm only using 6,500K in my veg room (6 bulbs, 1200 lumens each). I've also got a hypothesis that blue light during veg will produce more females and red light will produce more males. We'll be learning on this together my friends!!!

 

[Hick]

I was simply illustrateing the "cost efficiency" yorker. I wasn't meaning to sound critical. I'm intersted in your "hypothesis", and will be watching.

I believe a "search" of the forum will reveal an article referrencing "blue" spectrum dureing the 3-5 week as beneficial to female production. Preferrable humidity and temps are also included in the article

 

[Nelson Mutz]

Cyberquest I'm only using 6,500K in my veg room (6 bulbs, 1200 lumens each). I've also got a hypothesis that blue light during veg will produce more females and red light will produce more males. We'll be learning on this together my friends!!!

yorker...not sure about your hypothesis, but here's my expereince. I'm a cfl grower [having converted from tubes LONG ago], and for the veg stage, I use bulbs with the blue spectrum only for the first 3-5 weeks [running 24/0]. I gradually drop to 23/1, 22/2, 21/3, etc...down to 18/6 over the next 7-10 days. Additionally, I begin to add a red spectrum bulb every 2-3 days [I run anywhere from 6-10 bulbs in my grow cab] during this transition. This sets the plants up for flower production. I'm on my third grow using this system, and it works for me [mileage may vary, and prices higher in the south & west ]. Note, please...I'm not knocking tubes [I would really like some T-5's if I had the space], but find that cfl's have come a VERY long way, and are great for small, personal grows. My next purchase is going to be one of the odor eliminator bulbs; I can hardly wait to see how they work. Hope this helps and good luck with your grow!

Nelson

 

[theyorker]

I was simply illustrateing the "cost efficiency" yorker. I wasn't meaning to sound critical. I'm intersted in your "hypothesis", and will be watching.

I believe a "search" of the forum will reveal an article referrencing "blue" spectrum dureing the 3-5 week as beneficial to female production. Preferrable humidity and temps are also included in the article

Wow! Thanks for the guideance Hick. I'll have to thank Mutt personally for that wealth of knowledge. I read the whole thing and I will definately follow all of the advice given...I'm thinking 100% female!!!

On the lighting I also read an article you posted on the PAR value of lighting. After reading that I am even more convinced I am on to something here. You said that PAR light is what the plant sees, not lumens. Well here's the thing that is so interesting to me:

Both bulbs are 24 inch, 20 watt, T12 Flourescents.

GE Warm Bulb - 1,350 lumens, color temp 3,000K
GE Plant & Aquarium - 600 lumens, color temp 2,700K

How can the same size bulbs produce such different amounts of light? They don't. Both bulbs produce the same amount of light energy. One produces light that is very visible to the human eye and hence the high lumens number. The other gives off the same amount of light energy, only it is much less visible to the human eye. I'm betting the PAR rating on these bulbs is way up there and that my babies are going to flower beautifully under them. Can't wait to find out!

 

[Hick]

man yorker...I "used" to have a link that showed PAR rateings on a bunch of different brands/types of lighting.
I did find some interesting reading..
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Tech/intensorama.html
c/p
"Photosynthetically Active Radiation (PAR): A measure of visible light intensity (400-700 nm) obtained by using a quantum meter. PAR is simply a count of photons falling upon a surface in a given time and is reported as “micro Mols per square meter per second” (µMols·m2·sec). Quantum meters report all wavelengths between 400 and 700 nanometers. However, they report only light intensity and do not account for spectral quality. Generally, maximum solar PAR values are 2,000 – 2,100 µMols·m2·sec. PAR is something of an outlaw in the scientific community; it is not recognized as a standard unit, however most major works in the field (notably Kirk (1983), among others) state compensation and saturation points (see below) in PAR units. (Since PAR is a relative new-comer to science, it has not been recognized by CIE (Commission Internationale de L’Eclairage) or the International System of Units (SI) – both had already adopted standards for measuring light intensity. Lack of recognition by either of these committees should not undermine the importance of PAR measurements. Incidentally, divide µMols·m2·sec (of sunlight) by 4.6 to convert to watts per square meter per second (which is a SI-recognized unit.) A quantum meter is better suited for reporting light intensity than lux meters. Lux meters are photometric in their response, that is, they “see” light as the human eye does and have a maximum sensitivity to green wavelengths. The human eye is not especially sensitive to those wavelengths known to promote photosynthesis (violet, blue and red). Generally, noontime lux measurements made on cloudless days in the tropics range from 100,000 – 120,000 lux."

 

[theyorker]

Zarnon, yet another reason for my "experiment". I have a total of 34 bulbs I'm going to need as opposed to 1 bulb if I used HID. Now I can start to flower with 24 6500K bulbs and 10 2700K bulbs and gradually move to a ratio of 24 2700K bulbs and 10 6500K bulbs which is what they will need to grow early on and then flower later. About 1 1/2 inches high and looking very strong.

 

[theyorker]

Everything you are showing is related to HID. Do you have any of these charts for flourescents? I'm not going to use HID at all in this grow.

 

[Hick]

here is a quote from the envirolites website, they manufactor CFL grow bulbs.

"KEY" here, being the "manufactureres" ??..

 

[theyorker]

Here are picture of my little girls (they were germinated one week ago today). I'm starting to see leaves forming the 2nd nodes on a few of them. They look strong and healthy (the camera sucks). This morning it was cool (55) and sunny so I let them sit out in the direct sunlight for 3 hours. I'm letting them dry out now and start to root. I don't think I'm going to water them until they start to wilt.

The flower chamber is coming along. It's a lot to rewire all these fixtures so the ballists are on the outside of the box. You can see what the inside is going to look like though. You can see I have 24" fixtures each able to hold 2 bulbs going all the way around the inside of the closet (also, on the front doors.) Then I will hang 5 more fixtures from the top so they are getting lights from all sides. I'm feeling really good about this. Really broke too. HID is more cost effective, but no part of these plants will be more then 6" away from a direct light source and the canopy will be within 1 - 2" of a light source on top of them. How soon before I can start one of these seedlings to flower?

 

[theyorker]

Today I looked in my seed container to throw away the 3 that didn't germinate and there was another one that had sprouted. The root had started to turn a little brown and had some little hairs (mold maybe?). So I planted it and we'll see what happens.

I watered them from the bottom up and introduced Schultz's Plant Food (10-15-10) at 1/3 strenth. They are looking very healthy.

Also, I am going to try and flower some of these as quickly as possible and veg the others for a good long time. I'm thinking I will move 3 of the plants into 2-3 gallon containers at 4 weeks and put them on 12/12.
The other 8 I will transplant into 1 gallon containers and begin LST so by the time the first 3 are done flowering I will have 8 beauty's that are going to be ready to go.

The wiring for the lights is a pain in the ***, and I really hope the results prove all this was worth the effort. Later.

 

[theyorker]

Wow...I think I've learned a lot in the last couple of days. The weather where I am has been beautiful the last 3 days. Cool mornings (50's) and mild afternoons with a nice breeze. I've been letting the girls sit outside in the morning sun and they seem to like it. 2 days ago, I decided to give them a very mild dose of Schultz's Plant Food (3 drops in 22 oz of water, applied 10 ml from the bottom up. Well yesterday, I look and I can see a tint of yellowish starting to form on the leaves of all of them. UNBELIEVABLE!!! Thank God I went super mild. I have a lake by my house and I will use lake water from now on. They hated the nutes. I watered them today with the lake water from the bottom and they are enjoying the sunshine now. They aren't using much water, but they look really strong. It seems like they are growing slow, but I think it is more my impatience. The dirt at the top and through the middle of the container is very dry, but when I remove the tray and look through the drain holes the dirt is moist. I'm beginning to see nice white roots on most of them. I'm going to continue to water bottom up and see how that works. The wiring on the flower chamber continues, it's really a pain the ***...can't wait till it's done. Later.

 

[theyorker]

Here are pictures of the babies today. They look very healthy. I'm very lucky because I have a really good hydroponics store about 20 miles from my house and the guy seems to be pretty knowledgeable. He recommended I begin feeding them with General Hydroponics Flora Nova (7-4-10) which I did. We will see how they like it overnight. Also tommorrow I am going to transplant all of them. I bought Fox Farms potting soil and will put 8 of them into 6" terra cotta Azalia pots where they will veg for another 10 weeks and undergo some intense LST. The other 4 will be put into 10" terra cotta pots (about 3 gallon) and I will let them veg another week or 10 days on 18/6 and then get ready girls cause hopefully it's gonna be show time and I'll be going 12/12 with them within 4 weeks of germination.

Now let me describe what you are seeing in the pictures.

First picture is of my strongest plant. I don't know what type of seed it was because I bought 10 White Widow and received 10 assorted for free. I'm thinking it is an Indica (I hope that's right) because it is taller and skinnier then all of the others and the leaves are thinner.

The second picture shows my strongest White Widow and the Unknown.

The 3rd - 5th are various shots of all 12 of my plants.

The 6th shows 3 of the plants where the bud leaves are starting to yellow.

The 7th shows the color of the bulbs I'm going to use for the grow (I'll be using a total of 34 bulbs). I think this picture is so cool. If you look you can actually see the color of the two light bulbs are blue and red.

Well that's all. Please leave a comment if you have one. Thanks.

 

[theyorker]

Well they are transplanted. I used Fox Farms and I can't believe how clean the stuff smells. It actually smells really, really clean. Anyway 4 of them are in 3 gallon, 10" Terra Cotta pots and the rest are in 6" pots. I put the big ones up top and the small ones in the storage container and they are all under light from 6:00am to 1:00am. The roots looked great. They were getting all compacted at the bottom of the container and I am very pleased with the way they are coming along.

I have pictures of the grow area up with most of the lights going. I still need to put up 5 more fixtures and ballists to hang on the top as the canopy starts to develop. The big pain with these lights is removing the ballist from the fixture. I have to cut all of the wires from the ballist to the light sockets and mount the ballist on the outside of the grow box and then rewire the whole thing. It's a pain, but I'm very happy with the results so far. On the last picture, Who can tell me which bulb is a flowering bulb?

 

[frankpeterson]

excellent chamber yorker. Your brain produces good things.

 

[theyorker]

LOL Frank...thanks, you need to tell that to my wife!!!