Opinions about this hydro method

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Surfer Joe

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I saw a setup in the store with a 7 L mesh bucket filled with clay balls and suspended in a 10 L bucket about 2/3 full of nutrient solution with an air pump air stone in the water making lots of bubbles. The shop guy lifted the mesh bucket and showed me all of the roots of the tomato plant that was growing in the mesh bucket were sticking out through the mesh into the bubbling water.
I don't recall what he called this method of hydro growing, but he said that it was very trouble-free and you didn't have to worry about watering soil pots every day.
I wondered if it was a good method for growing pot since I thought that it's not a good idea for the roots to always be wet. Also, would it be hard to get a small pot plant to sit securely in the clay balls?
I would like to try this out as it seems like a very simple and low tech way of growing hydro method, but I would appreciate any advice or opinions about how good it might be for growing a pot plant.
Thanks for any advice.
 
Search DWC , direct water culture. lots of easy homemade systems out there.
 
Thanks. I looked it up and it looks good.
It seems that since the roots can grow down into the liquid, the overall size of the mesh bucket is not so important.
Do you think it's good for pot plants?
Does it have any drawbacks?
 
Growdude,,Is that Direct,, or Deep Water Culture.;) :D
 
Well, I took the plunge.
I got two 12 L buckets with 8-inch mesh pot inserts and an air pump and clay balls.
I'm not sure if the pots are too large. The buckets came with tiny three-inch mesh pots but they looked too small so I got bigger ones, but when I look at videos of setups, the pots don't seem to be too big and yet the plants seem to be pretty big. I guess that since the roots can grow out, the pot size is not important.
I got an air pump that does 400L/H for each bucket, but the bubble flow doesn't seem excessively vigorous, and I don't know what sort of L/H air flow one should use for a 12L bucket, or if there can be too much air flow in the water and harm the roots.

I can't use it until my current grow is done, which will be about 3-4 weeks to harvest, so in the meantime I need to study up about the setups and feeding.
I am already confused when I read a hydro grow journal and people talk about EC and ppm, as well as PH. I just got my head around PH!

I want to find the best nutrient products to use with my bubble pots.
My setup doesn't include the water pump to flow water into the pot, which is what some of the bubble pot videos I've seen have. It's just the pot above the water and the roots in the aerated water. I used to raise fish and I still have a lot of water pumps, so I might see about rigging up the water pump part if I find out that might be a better approach. Those fish water pumps are pretty powerful, and I don't know what sort of water flow is used in bubble pots. I would think that it should be closer to a drip than a flow.

If anyone can please suggest a few good grow bibles or other info, I would be grateful.
 
HTG.com there big boy system is awesome I am using it now...u start with six buckets and can go up to 18...its fun to use check it out 370.00 shipped
 
It is not that difficult. EC and ppms refer to the Electrical Conductivity (amount of dissolved solids) in a liquid. Basically it measures the strength of your nutrient solution. Likewise, pH is not that complicated. PH affects nutrient uptake and must be kept within certain levels for the plant to use the available food. It is also important to be aware of the ppms as a nutrient solution that is too high can have adverse, almost immediate effects in hydro. This though is my favorite way to grow.

I wouldn't worry about using water pumps with your setup. Aerating the nute solution will be sufficient. Also, water pumps can raise the temperature of your nute solution enough that you need a chiller to keep them within bounds.

I use General Hydroponics Flora Nova Grow for vegging. I use GH Flora Series (not the Nova line) Micro and Bloom for flowering, using the Lucas formula
 
The Hemp Goddess said:
It is not that difficult. EC and ppms refer to the Electrical Conductivity (amount of dissolved solids) in a liquid. Basically it measures the strength of your nutrient solution. Likewise, pH is not that complicated. PH affects nutrient uptake and must be kept within certain levels for the plant to use the available food. It is also important to be aware of the ppms as a nutrient solution that is too high can have adverse, almost immediate effects in hydro. This though is my favorite way to grow.

I wouldn't worry about using water pumps with your setup. Aerating the nute solution will be sufficient. Also, water pumps can raise the temperature of your nute solution enough that you need a chiller to keep them within bounds.

I use General Hydroponics Flora Nova Grow for vegging. I use GH Flora Series (not the Nova line) Micro and Bloom for flowering, using the Lucas formula

Thanks a lot.
I am also very attracted to the bubble pot method. It seems very low tech yet hydroponics seems very sophisticated.
I also don't want to get involved in the more complicated setups like ebb and flow to grow a couple of plants but I would like to improve my results with soil.

I suppose that I should get a ppm and ec meters?
I already have a digital ph meter that seems to work well.
With pH, I know to use pH up or down to adjust the pH, but what do you do about the ec or the ppms? Do you adjust them like pH?
 
Hi Surfer Joe; Don't let ppm, ec, and PH confuse you. They are not as difficult and confusing as they seem to be. It is just a matter of getting familiar with them and learning what to expect from them.
As THG said, ec and ppm are for checking the level of nutrients that are dissolved in the water. They both are the same thing but check the nutrients in a little different way. Some people use the ec meter as they say it is more accurate but many use ppm meters without issue. I use ppm as that is just what I got used to using. Get you a nice Hanna ppm or ec meter, they are relatively cheap and reliable.

You don't adjust TDS (this is the total dissolved solids that give you ec or ppm). ec and ppm are measures of the TDS. If you start with pure H2O such as in distilled water, your ppm or ec meter will read either 0.0 or very close to it because there are no dissolved minerals in the water. When you mix up nutrients in this water you will then be able to get a reading on the scale or the meters according to how much nutrients you put in.

In hydro, you will mix nutrients into the water for the plants (starting when they are several weeks old from seedling, or when they have become well rooted from clone). The bubbling action does 2 things. It aerates the water so that there is a lot of oxygen present in the water (which keeps the roots from drowning being constantly submerged in water), and it causes the water to splash up onto the netpot when the plants are young and the roots haven't begun to reach down into the water. The clay pebbles absorb this water that is splashed up onto it so that the roots of the smaller plant can get to it.

For feeding in hydro, many people really like the results of using General Hydroponics' Flora 3part nutrient. The 3 parts are mixed in ratio to each other into the solution. This ratio changes as the plants grow and change in needs. Using the ppm/ec meter will allow you to monitor and adjust this ratio as needed throughout the life cycle of the MJ plant. For example; I use Advanced Nutrients Jungle Juice 3part, which is very similar to the GH 3part. I generally begin my seedlings using only 1ml of each of the 3 parts per 1 gallon of water. This gives me a ppm reading or about 350ppm (not sure what that is on ec as I haven't used ec before). As the plants grow, I raise the ppm to 450 then 550 then 650 and so on up to my max nute charge during the vegging period (which can be from 650 for light eating sativas to 950 for heavy eating indicas). I typically will raise the ppm by equally raising the milliliters per gallon during the vegging period, and I raise them each week when the plants are growing well until I get to the max feeding for veg.

Then during the flowering period, I will change the ratio to serve the plant during its bud building stage. I no longer use equal portions or each of the 3 nute parts. Now I raise the Micro and Bloom while lowering the Grow each week until there is no longer any Grow being used and the Micro and Bloom are high enough to get the TDS to around 1200ppm for light eaters, to 1400 for heavier eaters.

At all times when feeding in hydro, the PH has to be maintained in a balance where it is best for the plants. This is a range that goes from 5.3 up to 6.2 with the ideal number being 5.8 for plants in hydro. As all of the chemical nutrients are made up of elements that can range in alkalinity and acidity, The ratio of the nute parts and their ratio to the water will all affect the level of the PH at the initial solution setup. Then as the plants drink water and take up nutrients (never in equal amounts) the PH will "drift" or "swing" as the ratios change. Some of the nutrient brands have "buffers" in them to help stabilize the PH. Some nutes like my Jungle Juice don't have buffers so I have to do the adjusting myself.

This may sound complicated but it really isn't. We can walk you through it when you get going, so don't be afraid to ask questions. :)
 
Thank you very much. That was very informative.
How do you learn all that? Are there any good books or other sources that you could recommend?
I have been reading quite a few hydro grow articles and I don't run across such information.
My air pump doesn't seem to splash much water up into the mesh pot. I had the water set almost touching the bottom of the mesh pot and the water bubbles around but doesn't really create splashing. It's a 400L/H pump but I saw some that were rated at 20 to 40L/Minute. What size air pump would you suggest for a 12L bucket?
I also noticed that people plant the seeds in rock wool and then place it in the clay pebbles rather than remove the plant from the wool and put it into the clay balls. I thought that having the rock wool around the plant would cause stems to always be moist and harm the plant.
There's a lot to learn.
 
nope the rockwool is ok to leave on infact you shouldnt take it off as you can tare off the very fine root hairs that are growing in it, plus the rockwool cube helps keep the plant stable inside the netpot with the hydroton, trust me the first time i ran a DWC i made the mistake of simply getting a taproot and sticking it into my bubble cloner until it had roots then into the hydroton in the mesh pot, that was stupid, the plant was so darn hard to keep standing up streight but at the time i thought you didnt use any starter plugs/cubes lol novice grower times, just the gently breeze from my fan was enough to make the plant sway for about 3 weeks before the plant had a beastly hold in the pot then it didnt move much, but again as i said that was stupid, id advise using something like a rockwool cube or rapid rooter as it helps with keeping the plant steady while its still young.
 
When my plants are small without good root growth yet, I keep the water level at the bottom of the net pots. As the roots grow into the solution, I lower the level of the nute solution so that about 1/2 of the root mass is submerged. I don't know that you need to have enough water movement so that it actually creates splashing--you just need good aerated water for DWC.

While Hushpuppy says that you don't adjust tds, in essence you do. The meter is used to measure the strength of the solution. You adjust the levels by the amount of nutrients you use.

I also don't use as complicated nute regime as Hushpuppoy. I run a 1 part nute during veg and then in flowering, I simply switch to flowering nutes. I also raise the ppms faster in veg and usually max out closer to 1200 or 1300 than 950. I feed my plants all the nutrients they want.

When starting from seed, you need them in some kind of medium--you cannot start them in hydrotron. The seed would just get lost in there somewhere. Trying to remove the rockwool would likely kill the seedling. I personally prefer Rapid Rooters over rockwool for seeds. I often clone in a bubble cloner with no medium and therefore, my clones are not in any kind of medium. Unlike sunakard, I have not had problems keeping the plant in the hydrotron without the use of rockwool.
 
Thank you.
Apparently there are a range of opinions and techniques that take time to learn, and different strains seem to need slightly different approaches, but I really want to give it a try.
I am going to visit Holland next month for a conference and while I'm there, I will visit some seed shop grow rooms and try to research as much as I can about hydro methods. Maybe they'll have some books to buy or at least I can pick their brains for a while.
I returned my first air pump that was 400L/H for one that is 30L/Min. The difference in the effect was amazing.
I haven't yet started anything because I need to finish my soil grown plants in their little clay pots, but I can't wait to get started.
This forum has been very helpful.
 
There are books that you can get and read that are helpful, but don't try to find the right answer as there isn't one right answer or one right way to grow MJ. Just about every person you meet who grows MJ will do it a little differently. Over time you will learn the nuances of growing MJ and you will be able to recognize that each method used by different people is one that is personalized to match the person and the environment. Don't take any one method as gospel but rather find one that works for you and fits what you want out of growing. You will most likely find that most of the successful growers have many of the finer tuning methods and basic principals of growing that are the same with only certain aspects being different to match either the person, environment, and/or the strains of plants being grown.

As The Hemp Goddess said, she does things a little differently than I do but we both have very successful grows using similar hydroponics methods. The best thing to do is to look at all of the different ways while you are waiting to get started and try to determine the pros and cons of each of these for you. Then when you get ready to begin, set up with one style and follow that style without changes for at least one full grow so that you can see how well it works for you. Then if you want to try something a little different, or totally different, try it from the beginning of the next grow. The worst thing you can do is jump around with different styles and methods while in the middle of a grow, as that can be problematic.

Don't let all of the information confuse you, its really not as much as it seems. :)
 
Thank you. I hope that it doesn't take too many grows before I can figure out how to get results like I see from people on the forum!
I have been studying the pros and cons of the method I plan to use, and one consensus seems to be that growing in buckets with just an air pump will require more hands on attention because the amount of liquid used is relatively small and the balance can shift rather quickly. I have been considering getting a large plastic storage box with lid and cutting two (maybe 3) holes in the lid for the mesh pots rather than doing individual buckets. The idea is to have a larger reservoir of liquid that won't get used up so fast. On the other hand, I read that grouping plants means that if there is a problem in the system, it will quickly affect all of the plants.
Do you think that using individual buckets rather than one larger container for 2 or 3 plants is better for a novice?
The buckets are 12L each and the larger container would be around 40+ L, so there would be a bigger reservoir for the plants to share.
 
I grew in 5 gallon buckets. 1 plant per bucket.
The hardest thing for me was changing out the nute solution.
I purchased an $8 battery operated kerosene pump. Was a piece of cake after that. Just be sure to research your nutes.
 
Thanks. I've seen several containers in the 40 to 50 L size, but they vary a lot in dimensions.
Would a taller container be better for root growth than a shallower one, or is it better to have a bigger, shallower shape?
I don't want the roots to get stunted by too shallow a space or get tangled up together if the container is too small in length/width.
The buckets I have are about 30cm tall and the mesh pots going in them are about 6 inches wide and 6 inches tall.
 

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