what type of light..

[freddy1]

hey everyone
im going to b starting my grow soon and i was wonder if a 250 hps light would be good for 4(or more) plants in a 2x2x4 space..

im new at this so any info will help thanks..

 

[Rolling Thunder]

hi there f1~ that\s quite a small grow space, so I would be inclined to go with an LED light instead. Check out the EDIT]. This 50w LED is roughly equivalent to a 200-250w HPS, and you will not have the heat issues that you would have with the HPS light.

Until now, I have been a big fan of HPS, but I am now seriously looking at going 100% LED: with supplemental UVB lighting for the final phase of flowering. Go to Google Videos and search for LED Grows. You'll find some video clips on it that are sure to impress!

Mind you, the LED's are a little pricey, but when you take a good hard look at their real advantages, over MH and HPS, it really seems to me like they're the wave of the future; and the way you should go!

All the best! ~ RT

 

[OGKushman]

A 250 HPS should work if that is what you want. It will sufficiently grow that area.


Good luck!

 

[Growdude]

hi there f1~ that\s quite a small grow space, so I would be inclined to go with an LED light instead. Check out the]. This 50w LED is roughly equivalent to a 200-250w HPS, and you will not have the heat issues that you would have with the HPS light.

Until now, I have been a big fan of HPS, but I am now seriously looking at going 100% LED: with supplemental UVB lighting for the final phase of flowering. Go to Google Videos and search for LED Grows. You'll find some video clips on it that are sure to impress!

Mind you, the LED's are a little pricey, but when you take a good hard look at their real advantages, over MH and HPS, it really seems to me like they're the wave of the future; and the way you should go!

All the best! ~ RT

Can you supply any links to some LED grows that show the finished product?
I went thru 12 pages at google video without seeing anything decent.

 

[OGKushman]

ccfl:
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42615

LED:
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43865
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46129


Just gotta search through grow journals.

 

[HippyInEngland]

2x2 is too small for 4 plants.

eace:

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Go with the 250 and put it in a cool tube. I am with Growdude--I have yet to see an impressive LED grow. You can veg with almost anything. It is when you get into flowering that your light really makes a difference. Regardless of the sales hype, I have not seen anything I am impressed with with LEDs.

Now before anyolne gets into a pissing match--I am not dissing LEDs. I want to say that I would LOVE it if LEDs were what they are advertised to be. I would LOVE a grow room with no heat. I would LOVE using 400W of LED rather than 1200W of HPS...but the truth is that LEDs are still horribly expensive and simply do not produce anhything close to what a HPS (or even a T5) will. The best grow I have seen was still under 1/4 gram per watt. When a HPS will produce on average at least 1/2 g per watt, LEDs are really not less expensive to run either...

 

[freddy1]

i have seen a few pictures and the plants almost always look bigger in size in a Led grow.
i think im going to end up using cfl bulbs
i also found a old speaker speaker cabinet that i can use for a 1 good size plant.

thanks for the help.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Can you supply any links to some LED grows that show the finished product?
I went thru 12 pages at google video without seeing anything decent.

The link that was edited out of my post, for the Glow Dynamics website, has a link to a photo collection of bud grown under their 300w LED. They're some of the best LED bud shots I've seen so far. Google 'Glow Dynamics' and check out those shots. Then go to You Tube and search for the clip entitled 'Cultivo Led 3W (105W. en total). That's a fairly impressive 100w grow! Try to imagine what it would have looked like had it been grown under 300w total, or even 600w? Google 'Go LED Grow' and check out the single 600w LED on that website. It will run you about $1400.00, but it's available for those who can see it as a long term investment that will pay itself off, if someone stays in the hobby long enough.

Anyway, there's another dude at ledgrow.eu, who has several of his video clips on Google and You Tube, featuring his 60w LED grows. Mind you, I'm not very impressed with his growing skill, but still, his results under 60w total were not entirely bad. I personally think he could have done a lot more to improve those results, but take it for what it is. When you check out his grows, try to imagine what they would have looked like under 600w total, if they were done right, that is, without mistakes. As I say, there is potential there and it is likely the LED technology will only improve in the not too distant future, and become the leading light source for indoor growing; that is, if the HPS industry does'nt step it up.

There are some other video clips I've seen that were impressive, given the limitations of the grow(s), which I will try to post later. But I'm a little hesitant posting links, because it's a little bit of a hassle to collect and post them, if they're just going to get edited out by a moderator. Also, this website's software program is a little loppy with bugs and causes me a lot of headaches. This post was originally must longer but after spending over half and hour on it, trying to fix all the issues with it, due to the software bugs, it eventually got deleted and rewritten as is.

RT

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Anyway, there's another dude at ledgrow.eu, who has several of his video clips on Google and You Tube, featuring his 60w LED grows.

The name he posts under on You Tube is 'HansMmmm'.

LED Grow 60 Watt, week 1
hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sNLivVz_Cs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sNLivVz_Cs[/URL]
LED Grow 60 Watt, week 13
hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7Weu61rrBk&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7Weu61rrBk&feature=related[/URL]
New LEDgrow 62 watt, week 10
"hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JyfXm6n1U0&NR=1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JyfXm6n1U0&NR=1[/URL]
New LEDgrow 62 watt, week 11
hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJTy9Q8eJTw&NR=1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJTy9Q8eJTw&NR=1[/URL]

Here's a different guy using a combination of Led and florescent, inside a stealth cabinet. From the look of the set-up, it looks like it's also rigged for supplemental UVB lighting:-

Floracion Led Dia 65. 1-3-09
hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1G36S4W3pQ&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1G36S4W3pQ&feature=related[/URL]
Floracion led. Dia 46. 10-2-09
hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylAPtX8UZkc&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylAPtX8UZkc&feature=related[/URL]
Floracion Led
hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eQkQFskrfo&NR=1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eQkQFskrfo&NR=1[/URL]

Once again, what I see there is not great, but it shows the potential of LED lighting, (supplemented with florescent,) on a much smaller scale, in that particular case or scenario.

Edited in the following:-

Here is another grow done under a total of 100w LED. Not too bad for a meagre hundred watts.

Cultivando con led THled 100W
hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz0kKC-QVMM&feature=related[/url]

Imagine what those colas would have looked like if grown under 300 watts of LED, or even 600w!

RT

 

[Rolling Thunder]

I would LOVE using 400W of LED rather than 1200W of HPS...but the truth is that LEDs are still horribly expensive and simply do not produce anhything close to what a HPS (or even a T5) will. The best grow I have seen was still under 1/4 gram per watt. When a HPS will produce on average at least 1/2 g per watt, LEDs are really not less expensive to run either...

Well, I always said skepticism was a good thing. Still do! Better to be a skeptic than a sucker, that's for sure; but a skeptic with a closed-mind is not much better than the unsuspecting sucker. Sure, skepticism is a great thing if it is coupled together with an open mind in search of the truth. There's never any harm in asking plenty of questions before lowering you guard. I applaud that.

And there is no doubt a s#%t-heap of hype to wade through in the search for truth, but it's one of those dirty jobs that someone needs to do. I suspect the claims made on several fronts are likely a tad exaggerated, and that the truth is to be found somewhere in the middle, between the two polarities. Now, the skeptic with a mind shut tight like a steel trap represents one polarity, and the sucker that believes everything stands at the opposite end of the spectrum.

As for the question of LED yields, the 'underdok' claims that he yielded about 1 gram per watt with LED. He has some nice finished bud shots too in his thread. However, he strikes me as a little dyslexic' (sic?), like myself, I suppose, so on page 3 of thread, where he says the total yield of his grow was '108' grams, read '180' grams; as he grew under 2 x 90w LED's. I'm sure the '108' was a typo attributed to either his dyslexia or his potent LED grown bud. Not a great yield, but not entirely bad either!

RT

Edit:-

The Dok`s LED thread: hXXp://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/187131-spectra-unit-90watt-led-grow-10.html#post3192607

 

[Growdude]

Guess im just a little harder to please.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Guess im just a little harder to please.

That's cool. No problem with that, dude; but I would like to know if you took the time to check out the underdok's thread? When I posted the above comments on it, I had only made it to page 3, but ya ought'a read the rest of the story, as it only gets better. I'm sure it will please ya, if even just a wee tad.

His yield of 1 gram per watt under 2 x 90w LED's motivated him to check out 2 x 300w LED's in his next run; and you really need to check out those results, if you have'nt as yet. They rock hard, dude. Like yourself, I'm a bit of a hard nut to crack, most of the time, that is, but I must say I'm very pleased with the Dok's results under 2 x 300w. Even before I discovered his thread, my spidie senses were telling me that 600w LED would rock hard!

RT

 

[Kupunakane]

Yo you guys,

I'm a bit concerned with the measurements of the growbox itself. It is a small space that is going to heat up fast with putting a 250 HPS in there. Matter of fact I'm thinking that the relatively short box with the lights hanging inside, will not allow for much growth up or even sideways. As these plants start to move upwards the protective distance from the lamp will grow shorter and shorter, and I see problems arriving.
I have used in my box which is just 3'6" X 4'6" X 6'6"tall one 90 watt LED triband altered to have more blue, and along with that I use six four foot growtubes, and I have never seen my leaves so dark and healthy green in all my years of growing. The sweet thing about LED's is the reduced heat footprint, and the absence of infra-red which produces pretty much only the heat. I am most serious about trying the UV also with the combination that I have going.
I tell you I was NOT a big proponant of this type of growing, but I've done it now, and I am so stoked over how much it cut down on my electric bill also.
Try to remember we are attempting to imitate the sun indoors only on a much smaller scale and we don't want to have to deal with infra-red that makes heat and just sucks up power usage. Now it's as though I just bought a second deep freeze and I am running it ya know ?
I actually had to put an oil filled heater in there to keep the temp a steady 74-76* degrees. That's how cool it all runs. But be most careful with LED on plants that are too young, cause the intense light will harm them if they are just sprouts and you place the LED too close. I made that goof so yeah, kinda familiar with it. My next grow will be all about the 3 different types of photo sources in combination. CFL grow tubes, LED's, Ultra-violet. Should be an interesting time since my crop was great even with out the UV.

Good Luck, use you head, and consider all the facts and dynamics. Heat can end up being your un-doing.

Remember this old poem, as it holds so true.

"When your out-go exceeds your income,
then your upkeep will be your downfall "...

smoke in peace
Kingkahuuna

 

[Growdude]

That's cool. No problem with that, dude; but I would like to know if you took the time to check out the underdok's thread? When I posted the above comments on it, I had only made it to page 3, but ya ought'a read the rest of the story, as it only gets better. I'm sure it will please ya, if even just a wee tad.

His yield of 1 gram per watt under 2 x 90w LED's motivated him to check out 2 x 300w LED's in his next run; and you really need to check out those results, if you have'nt as yet. They rock hard, dude. Like yourself, I'm a bit of a hard nut to crack, most of the time, that is, but I must say I'm very pleased with the Dok's results under 2 x 300w. Even before I discovered his thread, my spidie senses were telling me that 600w LED would rock hard!

RT

I just checked out that 1 gram per watt link, is some of the best LED buds ive seen.
LEDs look to be ideal for small vertical space grows, he states in the thread only the top bud developes. thats why hes growing the single cola plants that are nice and short.

Is impressive and if I ever have to go small this looks like a good way to go.

Only thing thats not impressive is grams per sq\ft because the plants are so small.

 

[Hick]

LED are quickly becoming the wave of the future, I'm thinking. I believe 'some' adjustments, alterations in the "style" of growing may be in order to utilize them fully, but man, they have came a LONG way over the last year or so.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Only thing thats not impressive is grams per sq\ft because the plants are so small.

Hick said it nicely. The Dok could have made some adjustments to his system to improve the results, but the jury is still out on the 2 x 300w grow. He has'nt yet posted it's final results and pics. On the second last page of the thread, he says that he will post the dry bud yield for the 600w, which we're still waiting for, but I will be surprised if it has'nt improved over the 2 x 90 run.

As we all know, his yield will be partly determined by the genetics he grew under the larger wattage. To be honest, I did'nt pay much attention to that end of the thread, but I got the feeling there was a lot of sativa genetics in the 600w grow. But I will have to re-read the thread to see if he grew the same genetics both times around. Regardless, we shall know very shortly how well he faired.

In terms of the LED's, as I said, they will only improve in time, as they have there sights fixed on becoming the number one light source for indoor growing, and nothing is going to get in their way; and with critical mass production, the price will surely fall like a rock.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

As for the question of LED yields, the 'underdok' claims that he yielded about 1 gram per watt with LED ... he says the total yield of his grow was '108' grams, read '180' grams; as he grew under 2 x 90w LED's. I'm sure the '108' was a typo attributed to either his dyslexia ...

Or more like my own dyslexia. Scratch the above. I went back to read the thread more carefully, and it turns out the Dok's first LED grow was not under two 90w LED's, like I incorrectly imagined; but only under one 90w LED; and that his total yield of dried bud was not '180g', like I had imagined, but '108g', like he posted: "Well i'm very pleased to tel and show you all," Dok says, "that the 19plants came up with a total of 108grams , like more than 1gram per Watt!!"

Now, 108g/90w = 1.2 g/w, or an average of 5.68 g/plant; but as he says, some plants were more developed than others, and so yielded better. However, 1.2 g/w is what it is: not too bad, for a mere 90 watts. In terms of bud development below the canopy, take a closer look at the photo shoot in Post No. 34, on page 4 of the thread. Those were taken on day 32 of the bud cycle, under 600w LED. The bud formation of the lower branches looks like it developed quite nicely with the extra 510 watts!

 

[Rolling Thunder]

In terms of bud development below the canopy, take a closer look at the photo shoot in Post No. 34, on page 4 of the thread. Those were taken on day 32 of the bud cycle, under 600w LED. The bud formation of the lower branches looks like it developed quite nicely with the extra 510 watts!

Well, once again, I should have taken a closer look at Post No. 30, on page three, where he says that he "cut away the lower branches so al the energy wil go the the more importend parts of the plants." The main photos that I was looking at in Post No. 34 did not show the lower part of the plant, but only from the middle and up; but if you look at the plants in the background, you can see the lower branches are missing. What I thought were the lower branches were actually the middle branches. I really should learn to open both eyes at least once in a while.

The closer I look at what the Dok did, though, the more I see what he could have done differently to improve his overall results. It's been nearly two months since he lasted posted in that thread, so I'm now beginning to think he may never update it, as I earlier thought. So, I guess we need to go with what's there. On page 3, he says he started with 21 plants, but ended up culling one Thai that turned out to be a male, leaving him with 20 plants. On page 9, he says he averaged between 15-35 grams of dried bud per plant; and I suspect the 15 gram yield was likely from the Laotian Haze sativa.

In terms of the genetics grown, (in this second run,) he grew nine indicas and 12 sativas, a few them pure sativa, one of which later turned out to be a male and was culled, leaving 11 sativas. The pure sativa was most likely the lightest of the bunch. I'm not too familiar with most of the varieties grown, so cannot say which were the best yielding plants, but we can surmize that the indica yielded better than the sativa. Now, a medium between 15 and 35 grams per plant would be 25; and it is likely that the sativas came in somewhere between 15-25 g/p and the indicas between 25-35 g/p.

So, if we average out the sativa yield, the low would be 15g/p and the high would be 25g/p, making for an average of 20g x 11p, for 220g. The low indica yield would be 25g and the high 35g, making an average of 30g x 9p, for 270g. Approximate total yield, then, is 490g, or .82 grams per watt. That's close to half a gram lower than the first run! Mind you, this is total guess work on my part. I don't imagine it being lower than that, but it might have been a little higher, based on the results of the first grow. Now, these are the varieties he grew in run number two, most of which I have never heard of, to be honest:-

01. Fruit Spirit
02. Berry Blaster
03. Blue Berry
04. Bluemistic
05. Critical
06. Laotian Haze (Thai)
07. Lemon Skunk
08. Northenlight
09. Power Flower
10. Skunk#1

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why he would grow so many different varieties at once, in such a small set-up, and from seed rather than clone. In my mind, that is not the best way to grow, espeically when you are experimenting with a new light source like LED. I feel his decision to grew 10 different varieties at once was a significant factor in his yielding so poorly, compared to the first run. Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt, concerning a better yield than averaged out above, it is unlikely that he yielded 1.2 grams per watt, as he did in the earlier run. For me, it seems the reason for the poor yield must be attributed more to the Dok's mistakes, rather than to the ability of the LED's themselves.

On another note, there is one post by the Dok where he talks about playing around with, or adjusting the light spectrum. Though he did not speak too much about that, I have to wonder if that also might have been a major factor in this apparently poorer second outcome. His nearly two-month silence makes me wonder whether or not he's lost confidence in LED's altogether. However, now I'm speculating without any basis for it. We will have to wait for the promised update, rather than waste time on speculation.

RT

 

[midnightTOKER85]

when is liight more important during veg stage or flower stage