Zarnon takes aim at a fall and winter grow

[THE BROTHER'S GRUNT]

Whats going on Zarnon my friend. :aok: Bummer about the plant problems but i think we all get them once in a while but it sounds like you might have it fixed. The rest of the ladies are looking great mang. Nothing like watching the ladies pack on the frost. Man those dry bud shots look killer. How is the smoke? Never had Kali Mist before. Pack a bong hit for me. :bong1: Anyway keep up the great work.

 

[Zarnon]

TBG!! Thanks bro... hey I fleshed out the reviews of the Kali and Power plant next to their pics on the previous page. Made more sense. Check it out and see if it's helpful.

RE: Unknown problems. Well, if I had any advice to give on diagnosing an unknown it would be; rule out dumb mistakes (pump turned off, airstone detached, etc), check for hidden problems (roots), make your decision for rational reasons, do only one thing at a time and and stick with it for awhile. Whew!

So, that's my gameplan mang! That foliar should kick in pretty quick. Like giving an IV. I should see some reversal by day three. I may give her another dose just to be sure.

 

[WubDaBuds]

Wow Zarnon... LOOKING GOOD!

Great grow m8... keep up the good work.

 

[THE BROTHER'S GRUNT]

Whats up Zarnon. I must have went right past your smoke reports on the Kali Mist and Power Plant. After reading them we might have to give them both a shot down the road. Very nice mang very nice indeed. :aok:

 

[Zarnon]

Tracking the Wild Unknown

Here is a good comparison between Nitrogen deficiency and what I'm calling 'the unknown'.

The first photo is Nitrogen def. In flowering this is normal and it will progress as flowering continues. (rapid or global loss is not a good thing, nor is getting a bunch in veg).

See how the loss of color is in the veins and midrib (inner part) and it's on the oldest (fan) leaves.

Now the next is what is going on in this one plant. Here you see almost the opposite where the loss of color affects the blade and the newest leaves.

I'm still not sure it's Mg. Why? Because Mg and Nitrogen are both translocatable, meaning the plant can draw on them (and does) from the resevoir (fan) leaves in times of crisis. So the older leaves get hit first.

Now, non-translocatable elements DO affect the youngest leaves first. The most common culprits being iron and sulfur. So, the Mineral Matrix may 'work' but for different reasons than I originally thought (it has alla them).

I am still holding to a deficiency because it's affecting the one that's growing the fastest (probably has tripled her bud mass in a week) and everything else appears solid.

Anyone want to add in their thoughts, feel free.

 

[KADE]

Middle one sometimes show like that when plants start to nute burn.

 

[Zarnon]

Kade, I always think nute burn, for sure, but here is the part that doesn't fit -- this particular plant is growing 2 to 2.5 times faster than the others. I've never seen nute burn do anything but either slow down or stop my grow. That's why I'm thinking deficiency vs overdose.

Here's a side by side I took very recently with the 'affected' plant vs. one of the 'healthy ones'. Keep in mind the other three do not show any signs of deficiency, they look nice and waxy like I like (see earlier pics).

 

[night501]

i just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to work this thread.
as a novice grower its hard to diagnose problems and how to correct them but the way you did it with the pics and comparisons its like pot growing for dummies.
i think i may have learned more in this thread than just about any other one i have read.
im currently growing in soil but just got my very first hydro setup today.
i got the waterfarm complete setup from general hydroponics. i figured since i didnt know that much about growing hydro i would buy my first setup and after i got an understanding of what and why it dose what it dose i could build my own in the future.
it came with 3 diffrent types of nutrients floragrow (2-1-6), flora bloom(0-5-4), and floramicro(5-0-1).
not sure if these nutes are worth using or not.
here are some pics

 

[Zarnon]

Hey Night... thanks for coming and the compliments. I really try to teach what I know. I learn a lot myself each grow.

Specifics about soil I cannot give, but I can def speak to those waterfarms. They rule dude. You can make your own but if you got a kit that's cool. GH makes them and they are a solid company.

I've never used GH nutes but heard they are good. Ratios are tough because I'm not sure what is the optimal one for MJ. Canna is 5-3-8 in veg... which is the same as 2.5-1.5-4 (to compare better with the Floragrow). Who's to say who's is better? I don't get hung up too much on that b/c there's sooo many other elements to optimize.

The only worrisome thing is the florabloom appears to have no N in it at all! I would def run the floragrow until you have fully sexed your plants (10 days-2 weeks into flower). They need N for that stretch. Does the flora micro go with the florabloom?

I recc PH buffered nutes. Except when your nute strength is really low (like seedlings) you won't have to adjust the ph at all.

I would also recommend some Superthrive (and only use 1 drop per freakin' gallon like it says!), and NOT being tempted by a lot of crap online or at the hydro store. Those dudes will sell you ANYTHING (for my experience for the most part).

If those GH do not have minerals including trace, start the mineral matrix 1-3 drops gallon after 2 weeks. Plants need 13 to grow and they need 'em all.

Make sure you toss those weak airstones that came with the WF (unless they've changed) and put in some nice monsters (Six inches or longer will keep the ladies happy -- at least in the plant world LOL). You will probably burn out the pump with a longer stone so you will probably have to get a new one. I recommend going to somewhere like

www.marinedepot.com

and looking through their airpumps. I have a pic of mine on one of these threads. Get a sturdy four outlet one for 50-70 bucks and you won't regret it. You do not want mature roots sitting in the bottom of a WF with a burnt out pump at 11pm.

Remember you are going to have problems just like all of us have had them. Plants are like people. Their probs don't always present like the textbook says they should. But you can build a solid knowledge base to guide your decision.

RE: Unknown problem. I don't want to engage in wishful thinking but it seems already the leaves are coming back.

I'll wait a few days. Changes and plant health are like a big boat... it's not going to turn around on a dime and will probably go forward a ways before making the turn (for hydro think TugBoat, soil think Ocean Liner LOL)

 

[night501]

well according to the booklets that came with it the flora micro is sapposed to be used with both bloom and grow.
oddly enough i didnt get any airstones. but thats ok there is a new hydro shop that opened just 2 blocks away (i have a new hang-out). was in there yesterday and i think im going to spring for a magic wand. by the way thanks for the quick responce. thats why i like your thread you seam to always be watching. just finished assembling everything.... damn i could have built this but the setup they sent is perty nice. i see what you said about the pump burning out . it looks cheap. thats ok i have 6 100 gal. aquariums set up and i think i have a few extra pumps.

 

[Zarnon]

You should be able to thread an airhose through the water level indicator (it will take a bend around those fittings but it will go). Then you attach your stone to that.

by the way thanks for the quick responce. thats why i like your thread you seam to always be watching

Yeah, it's raining outside and I'm on vacation.... boo hoo! I can't go anywhere because of my girlz! Sooooo it's RPG and Internet I guess LOL...

Yeah, def keep a few spare pumps around. Losing O2 when those roots are sitting in water is a matter of hours before death sets in. Hydro you have to be on it, but you will have many days where you just check the water/air, check the res and you're done.

 

[caabca]

I'm new to growing, but here's a thought...if the plant is producing 2-2.5x faster...is that really a "problem" you want to fix? Just thought I'd throw that out there...if it is..please elaborate...

 

[Zarnon]

No caaba! I love it! It's only a problem insofar as she has developed nutrient deficits as a result. She can grow as fast as she wants as long as she doesn't kill herself in the process! I could try to mess with growth rate but you're right, that'd be crazy. The foliar feed and mineral supplements are to help support her along her way.

This grow has had such different phenotypes in terms of growth rate, nutrient needs etc it makes me wonder if I got the same type of seed.

 

[parkingjoe]

hi zarnon are you going to be doing clones as seeds are really imho like pissing into the wind


waste of time done hundreds of the bastards feminised ones the whole lot and so much 'differance' in same seeds out of same packet supossedly from same plant


been taken for a fool many a time never again


having said that

worth taking a clone or tow and seeing if the plants walk the walk if so you have mummies to clone from


just an idea either way looking swell:tokie:

pkj

 

[Zarnon]

No dude, I am a total lover of seeds.

Screw fem seeds dude...I used them once, never more.

But I love planting (hopefully) high quality seed and seeing what comes out. I get enough quantity to meet all my needs, my best friend's needs, and more.. so I am not worried about yield.

This grow has yielded a pretty variant set of phenos... I am not sure any one is 'bad' tho...

Anyways.. I am ok with clones but having grown them and compared to the mother I think they are a step down in quality. I have popped clones in the same exact enviro, same exact everything and still cannot replicate the 'magic' of that seeded herb.

Anyways, this is a very subjective subject so I'll leave 'er for now. Just my experience.

 

[Zarnon]

Day 42 Flower

So I things are going well, although the freakin phenotypes on these mothers are very different.

Consider the size of the colas right vs the left (1st pic). The buds on the right are shaping up to be small Pineapple sized!! Those buds are like my 'Tebow' to the rest. These particular buds smell like skunk! I have never smelt something that was truly skunky/stinky, but this stuff really makes you think of roadkill. :huh: I am not sure this is a goal to shoot for LOL.

The other three range from fruity to piney.

NUTE PROB UPDATE: The back left plant with the browning/yellowing new leaves is turning around. You can see the diff between the healthy and deficient leaves (second pic).

Last pic, what I call my 'PrizeWinner' (back right). This one looks like the quintessential AK-47. She has put out so much early resin (the color corrected then monochromed filter pic loses some of that IMHO). She is not the biggest, but I think this is going to be the bud I say

"I keep for myself... my precioussssssssssssssss"

 

[caabca]

wow, your grow is looking awesome! the right side is producing way faster..any idea why? the effort you must put in is truely impressive...keep the knowledge flowing..

 

[Zarnon]

Caabca;

right side is producing way faster..any idea why?

The right side is not growing faster than the left; just the front right plant. The back right plant is my 'prizewinner' which may be the lowest yielder of this bunch.

So, to explain variance like this in a nutshell... (breath)

If everything in your environment is equal including having the plants on a common nutrient source, then your culprit is genetics.

 

[THE BROTHER'S GRUNT]

Whats up Zarnon. Glad to here your sick lady is coming around. Nothing worse than watching a beautiful plant turn funky ya know. As always my friend everything is looking great.

 

[Zarnon]

Yeah dude, it is hard to watch, although I make sure I have an idea what the pattern is before 'fixing' anything. I have learned not to do anything impulsive time and time again.

I had never had a plant get deficient on the Canna before. It has all the trace minerals and such. She just needed more than the others.

I'm still doing a foliar mineral about every three days and they're all getting 1 drop/gal of mineral matrix.