Sick Widow, any ideas?

[Roddy]

OK, update on these...they are not getting any better.

I checked nuted water and pre-nuted water both, pre-nute at 6.4 and nuted at 6.7 if memory serves (might have been 6.8, but that was a few joints ago), the ph isn't an issue at all!

We upped the food by 1/4's to double strength, the plants are all still looking bad, leaves are all falling off still. It's affecting the White Widow, Great White Shark, Skunk #11, OG Kush and Orange Bud (all are in 5gal pots and not been transplanted), I am also seeing an early fade on the Train Wreck, which should have close to a month or so still but is seeing serious yellowing of the leaves and has been for more than a week now. TR is in a 10gal

 

[Roddy]

No ideas??

The only differences to this grow (besides more light lol) are the nutes (switched to GO from FF) and these haven't been transplanted. I'm thinking I am going to transplant to 10gals and see if this helps?? I hate to, but they all just entered bud anyway...

 

[Roddy]

Plants are in darkness or I'd shoot a few pics, but the pic in the opening post is pretty much how all look.

 

[blackwind]

Hey Roddy. Did you switch to GO after you had been feeding these same plants FF? FF is chelated nutes where the GO is not. I had a similar problem once when I was using FF in soil. I'm just guessing but I think the FF kills the beneficial microbes in the soil and therefore the Organic nutes don't break down properly to be used by the plants. Water them down real well with plain water and check the ph in the runoff, I bet it's real low. I'd suggest re potting them, include some mycorrhizae in the soil and let the organics build up the microbes.

I'm pulling for you man! Much green mojo.

 

[Roddy]

No, none of these were introduced to the FF line at all, but good thinking!!!

I did transplant them all from 5gal to 10gal, we'll see how that goes! I could do a myco boost, might try that if they still look bad.

Would underwatering cause the leaves to drop like this??

THANKS Blackwind, good post!

 

[PencilHead]

but I think the FF kills the beneficial microbes in the soil and therefore the Organic nutes don't break down properly to be used by the plants

Yeah? You sure about this?

 

[blackwind]

No Pencil, I can't say I'm sure about it but I had a plant I ran FF on and then revegged. The same kind of thing happened. It got really sickly and kind of stopped growing. I eventually repotted her and tried to remove as much of the existing soil as possible then started her on Earth Juice and she came right around.

 

[Roddy]

I am positive about it Pencil, this is why I switched nute lines!

Test 4 Fox Farm Full line = Grow Big (6-4-4)- Tiger Bloom (2-8-4)- Big Bloom (0.01-0.3-0.7)- Open Sesame (5-45-19)- Beastie Bloomz (0-50-30) - Cha-ching (9-50-10)

I've been eager to write about Fox farm for some time. It's an extremely popular and effective chemical based product. If you've read the above information than you understand the importance of a "living" substrate. A diverse and rich bacterial and fungal balanced medium contains enough beneficial organisms to out compete pathogens and disease causing bacteria and creates accessible stored nutrient content. Chemical fertilizers kill off much of the microbial life and allow for limited forms of absorption and resistance to disease. When some microbial life dies off the fragile "circle of life" follows. If for example we eliminated bacterial life, this will lead to an abundance of fungus. Enzymes produced from fungus are acidic. This drives the pH down creating nutrient lock-up and unattractive environments for life, specifically bacteria. Fox farm definitely suffers from this chemical kill off scenario.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50463

 

[blackwind]

Cool, Roddy. Glad to know I'm not the only one that had that opinion of FF. How're your girls after the transplant?

 

[Roddy]

Gals looked good this morning, will take a few days if at all to see any signs that they are rebounding, leaf loss is really the only symptoms. I think things will be fine, we'll likely see a small yield off these 5 though!

 

[shuggy4105]

Red leasions on stem is a sign of (Nh4) toxicity. Too much amoniacal nitrogen. Looks the same with the leaves.

 

[Roddy]

So I am overfeeding them?

THANKS for the input, Shuggy!

 

[shuggy4105]

wouldn`t say over-fert of all nutes my friend, but as far as (Nh4+) i.e too much amoniacal (N), then yes. Try not to use too much of this type within chem ferts, lookout for Nitrite which is the form most quickly available to the plants and the best . All explained on the NPK decleration on packs.
It`s very hard to burn your gals with organics, not impossible but hard. the leaves do look like there may be some deficeincies; are they falling independantly or coming off with a gently tug?

 

[Roddy]

Am using organics. Most leaves had fallen off without help, some have been gently tugged to check. I read where the 707 headband soil (Roots Organic) was a bit "weak" and some amend the soil....this is above my head lol, but will be checking into what I need to do on future grows.

 

[shuggy4105]

Leaves falling without withering can be a sign of over-watering, or lack of drainage... Or a deficeincy advanceing...
Is your run-off clear?

 

[Roddy]

Runoff is clear! Most leaves have stopped falling with the transplant, however there's a bit still going on. Also, found another red spot today, it was on a leaf...went to touch it (a tiny translucent red splotch) and it flaked right off.

 

[Snickerdoodle]

I was wondering if you have any Cal-Mag by Botanicare? Or a similar product. It might not help this go round, but try using 5ml per gallon with future grows, especially when you are being agressive with fertilizers. Also, don't rule out a virus that is causing a calcium deffiiency. Be very careful with pots and other items that you have used in this grow. Sterilize them before reusing them. Good Luck!

 

[nouvellechef]

Virus is a long shot. I have gone 3 cycles and not washed my containers. I know, bad. Whenever you switch nutrient regimes, you almost always have a learning curb with them. Especially if your trying to run full organic.

 

[nvthis]

Hey Roddy, do me a quick little favor, will you? Go ahead and pull the plant from the pot and have a look on the inside of the pot. What do you see? Anything that might look like a white powdery residue around the drain holes? Around the rim at soil level maybe? On top of the soil around the stalk? Just humor me a minute..

And when you say "clot", is it like the stem was puntured and the wound dried like that? And are there several on one stem or petiole, but not on others?

I'm feelin' ya man, migrating or ghost deficiencies are a beeatch. Any flyers in your room?

 

[Roddy]

I was wondering if you have any Cal-Mag by Botanicare? Or a similar product. It might not help this go round, but try using 5ml per gallon with future grows, especially when you are being agressive with fertilizers. Also, don't rule out a virus that is causing a calcium deffiiency. Be very careful with pots and other items that you have used in this grow. Sterilize them before reusing them. Good Luck!

Yep, cal/mag is in the arsenal and being used regularly...even tried upping the dosage a bit.

Will do on sterilization....guess with the smart pots, this means sun bleaching?

Appreciate ALL replies everyone, THANKS a ton!!!!