thank you everyone! i really appreciate your support. getting s1 healthy is obviously a big priority for me, considering it's a she, and has several shoots that look like they could become cloneable. i am still looking for some insight into the main question i posted though, about understanding the significance of runoff tds vs. feed tds.
I'ma Joker Midnight Toker said:
Drowned and a it looks like it needs Nitrogen ...IMHO
about the nitrogen- i agree, which is why i've been giving it 1000 ppm of biogrow, and that's it. there was a time when i was mixing in all of the recommended biobizz supplements, but i've been giving all of my plants just plain grow for a while now. should be lots of nitrogen in the medium, but perhaps it is locked out due to waterlogging or whatever...
That crazy vancouver guy said:
ya... looks to me like they are being drowned. how often do you water?
daily, with a missed day here or there. yesterday, i didn't water. i'm thinking i'll try every other day.
snuggles said:
I water max three times a week. I don't feed as much, I usually feed, then water, water again and then feed. I flush often to clean it out, maybe every three weeks or so. And the last thing is my mix is more like 50/50 coco perlite.
thx all you guys- based on your reactions, it sounds like i should take a closer look at my watering/feeding schedule
s1 does seem to show symptoms of overwatering. i don't know if i'm going to run a journal for these plants until i get some clones, but please look at the pics of my other ones, and tell me if you think they look overwatered, too. i'm curious if any/all of you have experience using coco coir (i know you do snug). there is little discussion on the web about it, and a bit of conflicting info going around as well. i have a feeling that since many people use coco very differently, maybe the key is having the right amount and frequency of feed for the porosity of medium you have prepared. i haven't found much discussion of coco grows, but on another forum, there are some dedicated sections for coco growers, and i have seen some who water WITH nutes multiple times per day, and others every few days, and i've seen people use everything from 100% coco, to 30% coco/70% perlite. it seems like as soon as one figures out how to read the signs of the plants, you can pretty much do anything you want- trying to get there lol
here's a history of my trials in coco coir so far, so some of the problems you see may not just have to do with overwatering:
11/30: hydrate coco (using tap water, pH 7.2-ish, ppm of tap approx. 90.)
note- did not flush, because it was my understanding that i didn't have to with my brand of coco- also, i did not have a pH pen at the time... oops.
12/3: plant first batch in 100% coco (3 somango, 3 white widow). heavily overnuted with root juice... oops.
12/24: plant second batch in 100% coco (2 somango, 3 white widow). after having some problems with the first batch, i started these, figuring they would be much happier this time with just a hint of root juice.
in the begining of january, i tested some unused, unflushed coco, and found the ppm of the runoff to be around 1000. wow. oops. so i flushed all plants heavily with 5.8 pH'ed water.
1/5: dealing with deficiencies- due to lockout- or something... began adding cal/mag, having read coco is a cal/mag hog. up to this point, have been giving a little of everything in the biobizz line... oops. (keep in mind, i have completed one grow and smoked the bud, but i think i was maybe accidentally successful, haha. on my current grow, i'm having a much harder time, but i'm doing things much differently, and my copious mistakes have caused me to learn quite a lot, and gain much more control... even though i'm changing my medium asap, i'd like to figure out how steer these plants back to the right path)
1/14: realize i've been mistakenly feeding bloom nutes the whole time, 'cause i was incorrectly reading the biobizz feed schedule... oops. (stopped using out the biobloom and top max)
1/23: repotted everything with coco/perlite 2/1, before potting flushed until runoff was 5.8-6.3 pH and matched the tap ppm of about 97, and fed everything 5.8pH 600ppm feed. i did disrupt the rootballs pretty intensely, to try to get rid of as much of the old coco as possible... this could have caused some major problems for some of them... who knows.
1/28-2/3: finally starting to figure some things out, and my pH pen breaks :hairpull: took a week to get a new one... added a little less than the typical amount of pH down for the week, just to try to keep pH of feed from being way too high. just giving them biogrow at about this point in time until present. i have given some bioheaven and alg-a-mic- just a hint with one feeding a few days ago.
today one of each variety remains from each seed sowing. had three others hanging on, but i ended their struggle 2 days ago- tired of fussing with them.
snug, i will try what you suggest, about adding more perlite, expecially to the bottom of the pot, as it sounds like a lack of oxgen to the roots could be a part of the slow growth problem. most people i have talked to about it treat coco coir as a hydro medium, watering and feeding the plants daily.
i'm going to keep these four plants i have going now in coco long enough to get some clones if i can. i have lots of coco and biobizz nutes, and i was hoping i could figure out how to use it all, but in the meantime, i'm starting a rock wool grow right away, using the much simpler, ionic nutes. i'm germing some my apollo 13 sativa and remaining somango seeds tonight, and when i do, i'll start a journal for that. just installed a replacement electrode for my hanna pH meter, and got a new ec truncheon in the post yesterday!
blunt said:
loveit, im having the same issue ... my PPM rises 20-100 points after each feeding. i was drowning my plants but have since backed off and they are improving greatly but im curious why the PPM keeps rising. im wondering if its nute lock or minor nute lock?
yes, it's frustrating not knowing why it does that! see my response to snug's runoff amount question below for an elaboration my on runoff frustrations, haha...
snuggles said:
Also what kind of pH up and down are you using? And how much on average?
i'm using pro pH down, haven't needed pH up... just using whatever it takes to make my meter go from 7.2 to 5.8, it's about 1/4 tsp per gallon to lower .5 pH, if my memory serves...
Mr. Bubbles said:
Great read and some nice documentation you got there. I wish you the best of luck friend.
thanks mr.b, it's nice to hear from you- gotta check out your skunk journal!
snuggles said:
Do you have nice airflow there? Also when you water everyday how much water is being used?
there is a fan blowing on the light and wiggling the plants, a dehumidifier in the corner, and co2boost as well, so airflow should be fine. i use about 250ml of feed for the small pots, and 500-1000ml for the big pots. most of this runs off. i have read a little about how much to let runoff, and have seen people say to allow 10-20% runoff, but this doesn't make sense to me. most of it runs off in my 2:1 ratio mix, it doesn't hold 80-90% of the feed in a coco/perlite mix!!! so, for instance, if i fed 250ml, and 200ml runs off, what is this telling me, am i grossly overfeeding? i thought you could let it runoff as much as you want, the more the merrier, doesn't it just flush salts, and replace the stale feed with fresh. i've noticed also, if i test runoff, and then feed more of the same, the runoff levels rise... why? shouldn't the runoff get closer to your feed, not further away, the more of it you allow to runoff?
blunt said:
i dont mean to jump into loveits thread but since we are having the same issues i thought we could learn from each others info
yes sir- you are welcome anytime! please let me know if you find anything out anywhere else!!
okay, end of book- now i'll post some pics..