Input on root bound plants

[PencilHead]

My first grow was as close to good as a rookie could get, but the second grow was almost exactly half the take of first.

The second grow, I topped, super-cropped, LSTed--all the stuff that sounded fancy. Mostly, beyond pure experiment, I was attempting to stress them because they were stuck in the veg area waiting on a misunderstanding (being nice here) from the seed vendor. The stats on this particular WW from the seed supplier insinuated that if I could only wait 8 to 9 weeks I'd have the perfect crop. Wrong--thank you Hippy for getting my head straight on that part.

I had gone from 16 oz cups to 2 gal pots because my veg space is in my studio bathtub and space is a factor. I left these darlings in the 2 gals waaay long, I knew, but they seemed fairly happy with life.

When the flowering room became available, I transplanted to 5 gal pots. Against all I know about growing things, I didn't rough up the root ball, didn't score it or cut off the bottom layer as you do with anything else that's root bound. The plants never really took on any size, didn't stretch much and went retrograde pretty fast. I had dead leaves everywhere and dead spots on the bud (thought it was mold but a friend with a large scope took a look and it was simply necrotic bud), but the bud itself is more than excellent--so who's complaining, right?

First grow, I pulled an amazing--for a rook--1 1/2 elbows off 7 plants. This grow I pulled a--yawn--3/4 elbow off 8 plants. Besides changing the ventilation to a slightly more inefficient set-up, all things on grow 1 and grow 2 were identical.

When I broke these girls down, the root ball was still in the exact shape of the 2 gallon pot.

I realize anyone with that much personal stash should probably be ashamed of complaining--and, trust, none of my friends are complaining about free smoke either--but I'm pretty lazy and putting the same amount of effort to harvest half the goodies is unacceptable.

Could some of you seasoned growers chime in on my theory that root binding issues stunted my gross?

Also, will it harm the tough but fragile MJ plant to beat up on a bound root ball?

Signed,
Living-and-Learning-in-the-Grow-Room

 

[dman1234]

this interests me also,
opinions anyone

 

[phatpharmer]

With my Moms I cut about 1/4 inch off the bottom of the root ball and add fresh soil to the bottom of my container and the plants really take off when I do this! I find If i do this every 8-10 weeks my Moms stay happy without getting huge, if your doing this with plants going to flower I'd wait until you see new growth before you start to flower, as you dont want stressed plants flowering!


Phatpharmer

 

[PencilHead]

Thanks, Phat. I just wanted to hear someone say they'd done it to MJ and it didn't stress it to death. Although pulling a paultry z to a z and a half per plant is pretty stressed-out considering my grow space and lighting.

Well, I was pretty stressed out anyway.

 

[StoneyBud]

Hey PencilHead, there are a bunch of ways to approach this issue.

Look at some of the micro grows here on MP and you'll see that some folks get some really impressive plants to grow out of a very small root area.

This is done via a hydroponic nutrient supply. The plant is in what would appear to be a "soil" grow, but root bound to the extent that it would be impossible for it to gather it's needed nutrients from the available soil within it's root system.

To compensate for this, a quality hydroponic nutrient is supplied in sufficient quantities and often enough to keep the plant growing rapidly despite it's restrictions.

This can be done with any soil grow. I grow my Host plants in pots with soil, but I allow them to become root bound on purpose. By alternating the strength of the nutrients I give them, I can limit their growth and still keep them very healthy.

What you could have done with your grow is to either give the plants a supplemental dosage of Rooting Hormones for a couple of weeks in addition to your normal feedings, which would cause rapid root growth, or just use a quality hydroponic solution to feed them and feed them from below with adequate reserves available in the drip pan. By using a wide drip pan for nutrient delivery in this manner, the nutrient remains well oxygenated and the plants stay very healthy, even though the roots are almost constantly wicking nutrient solution into the root mass.

Good luck man. Both of these methods work very well. I use them both all the time with various types of plants and my weed.

 

[GeezerBudd]

Well okay, I well tell this story-happened long ago-my first ever growing attempt.
I had a plant growing in about a gallon pot.
I gave it mostly clear water.
Once it got about 2 feet tall, the bottom leaves started dying and falling off.
So I tell my girlfriend-now my wife of 20 years about it.

She got it out of the pot and it was rootbound.
She gently untangled part of the mass and trimmed off about 4 inches of root around the sides but did not cut the center, then put it in a 3 gallon pot(I know it was a bigger one). It had a short stress period then immediately grew about a foot.
But it was a male.

I have snipped roots before. I wear plastic gloves when I do it cause I believe skin oils are not good for roots.

Gb

 

[Mutt]

Totally agree on the lower leaves...first sign of root stress. i don't give them hydro nutes when doing a root lock grow. but i use some potent teas and top dress...so still getting all the micro and macro nutrients so in a way hydro...just not "hydro ferts" so to speak.
Good way to control ht. as well. Just takes a ton load more of work. but yeild is out the window on rootbound. if i'm shootin for yeild and not playing around its at least 3 gallon pots. I ussually got 3-4 in 3 gallons and a few to have fun with

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=123430&d=1248049627

 

[Smeg]

i always squash the bottom of the roots and give them a general , but gentle pull about , i never ddi this in the past , but then i watched someone do it on you tube.
i have never cut the root thou . any more info on this and a few pics of how much you cut and when ?
thanks

 

[PencilHead]

Thanks, everyone. I think what I did will work. Per HIE, I de-potted and submerged the root ball in a large bucket of water.

Per me, I added B1/rooting compound to that water bath and then worked the root ball gently with my fingers until it loosened and shredded some. Then I re-potted into my 5 gallon. I've notice no stress or stunting--it's been a week and they are going into their flowering stretch like mad-women (they're 3' and better and only been under 12/12 since 07-01).

I planned on them being big girls and I knew I needed all the root I could muster. I've got the verticle space and want to see how height/size affects yield and potency.

Once again, thanks, everyone, for getting me to this point in my future history.

 

[Hick]

I recieved some rooted clones of two strains that I wanted to try. Problem was, they were several weeks into full flower when got them, and were in 32 oz cups of 100% perlite.
After doing a transplant to soil(FFOF) with one of each strain, I was worried about stress/survival because of their "time in life" and their being "very" rootbound in the cups.
I thought I should keep the other two in the perlite/cups and try to reveg for cuttings, just in case the soil transplants didn't survive.
I put them under the 400, 24/0 and started feeding them FF "grow Big", soil formula. The ones still in the cups receive a thorough watering with FF nutes daily.
Pictures are before and after...

 

[Mutt]

WOW hick someone had some skill with hempy's

 

[PencilHead]

Thanks, Hick. You know, there's a tendency to come in to this phenomenon called growing totally intimidated by failure and forget everything you ever learned in your life about growing things--like you, I come from agrarian people, people who have survived for like 300 years by growing things in this soil called America.

I KNEW not to re-pot a root bound plant without tricking the roots a bit, but... Live and learn.

 

[JogaBonito521]

So do root bound plants have other downsides besides lower yield?

 

[NorCalHal]

Hey PencilHead, there are a bunch of ways to approach this issue.

Look at some of the micro grows here on MP and you'll see that some folks get some really impressive plants to grow out of a very small root area.

This is done via a hydroponic nutrient supply. The plant is in what would appear to be a "soil" grow, but root bound to the extent that it would be impossible for it to gather it's needed nutrients from the available soil within it's root system.

To compensate for this, a quality hydroponic nutrient is supplied in sufficient quantities and often enough to keep the plant growing rapidly despite it's restrictions.

This can be done with any soil grow. I grow my Host plants in pots with soil, but I allow them to become root bound on purpose. By alternating the strength of the nutrients I give them, I can limit their growth and still keep them very healthy.

Thanks Stoney for this. It gave me a better understanding of "Why".

I grow hydroponicaly, and use smaller pots and have BIG plants, with no issues. I just knew it worked, not really why. Thanks.


So, if you grow soil, that is why they say to use a gallon per foot of plant? Is this correct?

 

[StoneyBud]

I recieved some rooted clones of two strains that I wanted to try. Problem was, they were several weeks into full flower when got them, and were in 32 oz cups of 100% perlite.
After doing a transplant to soil(FFOF) with one of each strain, I was worried about stress/survival because of their "time in life" and their being "very" rootbound in the cups.
I thought I should keep the other two in the perlite/cups and try to reveg for cuttings, just in case the soil transplants didn't survive.
I put them under the 400, 24/0 and started feeding them FF "grow Big", soil formula. The ones still in the cups receive a thorough watering with FF nutes daily.
Pictures are before and after...

Thanks Hick, that's a perfect example of what I was talking about! You did a Hydro to dirt conversion!

 

[StoneyBud]

Thanks Stoney for this. It gave me a better understanding of "Why".

I grow hydroponically, and use smaller pots and have BIG plants, with no issues. I just knew it worked, not really why. Thanks.


So, if you grow soil, that is why they say to use a gallon per foot of plant? Is this correct?

Your welcome. When people say "Hydroponic" most folks immediately think of some fancy system. It can be as simple as a cup with perlite in it like Hick has shown us.

The gallon per/foot of height is a good guideline.

The thing I stress with everyone is to watch your plants. The plants will tell you what they need if you know how to interpret what they say.

Learning to interpret plant speak takes time and experience. You start with your first ever grow and never quit learning.

 

[PencilHead]

Interesting, Stoney. I had wondered how the oxygenation worked with wick systems as the roots would seem to never dry out.

This, my 3rd grow, I went back to putting lava rock in the bottom of my buckets. Don't know if it helps with aeration or not, but it makes me feel better.

 

[PencilHead]

Your welcome. When people say "Hydroponic" most folks immediately think of some fancy system. It can be as simple as a cup with perlite in it like Hick has shown us.

The gallon per/foot of height is a good guideline.

The thing I stress with everyone is to watch your plants. The plants will tell you what they need if you know how to interpret what they say.

Learning to interpret plant speak takes time and experience. You start with your first ever grow and never quit learning.

Yeah that. And that's when the real fun starts.

 

[StoneyBud]

Interesting, Stoney. I had wondered how the oxygenation worked with wick systems as the roots would seem to never dry out.

This, my 3rd grow, I went back to putting lava rock in the bottom of my buckets. Don't know if it helps with aeration or not, but it makes me feel better.

With standard dirt grows, having some sort of rough media at the bottom of the pot will ensure that the roots are not sitting in stagnant water that has lost it's oxygen, thus bypassing root rot.

That's a good safe-guard. Some folks do this, even with a wicking system by literally using wicks to bring the solution past the rough media. Regular lamp wicks work great for this. Four wicks per/cubic foot of soil. Lots of people learn the hard way to use enough wicks. The plant won't draw too much solution. You can't have too many wicks (unless you just got stupid with it), but you can sure have too few.

Opening the water surface in the drip pan to a wide area and a shallow depth will naturally oxygenate the water. Having drip pans under your pots and using a wicking feed from this type of system works well. The secret is that the water needs to be used up within 48 hours and replenished with fresh solution. I've grown my Host plants this way for many years. I just don't use wicks or rough media. The water/nutes wick up into my dirt and roots.

Like the photo below. This is a little Bubba Kush clone that a very good friend sent me from out west recently. It's now in week two of it's Host Life.

I put enough nutrient solution into the drip pan to last 48 hours. Then I wait until the dirt starts getting dry and repeat the process.

This one is just about ready to move to it's permanent 3 gallon pot. I rooted the clone for 20 days in K-L-N rooting hormone in an aeroponic rooting chamber until the roots were about a foot long. Then I moved them into the dirt for the hosts and hydro for four others.

The hydro ones are doing fantastic. I just upped the strength of the nutes to full strength and added 2 gallons of that to my 16 gallon reservoir. They're using one gallon a day, so in 16 days, I'll have full strength GH nutes feeding them if they tolerate it.

 

[StoneyBud]

A note to those who intend to use lamp wicks:

Buy all of them and put them into a pan of Dawn dish soap water. let them soak over night and then squish them a bunch to wash them well.

Then rinse, rinse, and rinse them some more.

You never know what got into them during manufacturing.

The dawn will cut almost anything and it's residuals won't hurt a plant.