Nutes are KILLING my plants...

[JohnnyV.]

Hello all,

This is my second post and I (again) need help.

I have upgraded my indoor set up and purchased Cellmax nutes (Grow, Bloom, and Root).

I have followed the instructions exactly in the dilution of the nutes into water.
I have then begun administering the nutes after the 3rd week of growth (they should be old enough).

I did this with my first crop of 2 plants and in 3 days both plants were DEAD.
The leaves died form bottom to top within a few days…
PAINFUL to watch...

I then suspected that the PH became too high due to the Nutes.
I threw away my dead "sticks" and also the nute solutions.

So, I planted new seeds, waited 3 weeks, and re-formulated the nutes.
Again, I followed the instructions to the letter, then however I also measured the PH of the resulting water/nute solution and found that it was about 7.5 (for each of the solutions (root, grow, and bloom).

I then added PH- until the PH of all Nute solutions (grow, bloom, and root respectively) dropped to about 6 or 6.25 (should be perfect, right?).

Now my plants were 3 weeks old about 2 weeks ago, so I once again administered the Nutes ("grow" only) about 2 shot glasses worth.
I then followed this with a generous "splash" of pure water to further dilute the nutes and to push then deep into the soil to avoid the nutes being concentrated and perhaps burning the plant at the surface (plants are in soil (also Cellmax)).

A few days later… it started again, leaves dieing at the bottom of the plant, FAST….

I then panicked (again) and flushed the plants with as much fresh pure water as I thought they could handle in an effort to drive the nutes out.

This seems to have "worked".
There are only 2 plants and they are different strains.
One is badly burned and I am unsure whether it will survive.
The other is "unhappy" but appears as though it will pull through.

This was now 2 weeks ago and I have not given any more nutes as they seem to be an instant "kill".

Perhaps you can imagine how frustrated I am…

PLEASE, what I am doing wrong?!!?

Thank you for any/all help.

All the best,
Johnny:confused2:

 

[TheKlonedRanger]

It sounds like your mixing the nutes and pouring that straight onto the soil..is that accurate?

You should premix your nutes in water and then use that. I use fox farm nutes. For seedlings, it's 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix in the water, check PPM and PH, and if its in range, water with nutrient enhanced water.

 

[4u2sm0ke]

Im not familure with those nutes but I do know you want a PH of 6.5...6.0 for soil is a bit low...what made you choose those nutes?

 

[JohnnyV.]

Ranger: Thaks for the quick response.
No, I did not put the nutes directly on the soil.
The instructions indicate that the nute solution should be diluted by (as I recall) 1 part per 250.

For a 1.5 liter bottle of water, this amountes to about ½ a spoon full.
I use pure water gathered from a natural spring. It is clean and pure.
Once the nutes are diluted in the bottle of water, it is shaken to insure even distribution.

The instructions say that this nute solution should then be given once /week.

The one thing that the instructions do not indicate is HOW MUCH of this solution should then be given to the plant.
In my first attempt, perhaps I was too generous (1 cup).

My more recent attempt, I only put about 2 shot glasses of the solution on the soil (without touching the plant leaves or stem) and followed by more mineral water….but this still caused a dramatic and negative reaction…

I know the water is good as I have used it for years on house plants and in the garden.

I also tested the PH of the water before the nutes were added, everything normal.

4U: Thank you for your response.
I bought an indoor grow kit online which included these cellmax nutes.
You can see the "kit" that I purchased here: hXXp://www.hydroponics.eu/KitConfig.aspx?ID=12

Thank you again for the help and input.

All the best,
Johnny

 

[JohnnyV.]

PS: Yes, I heard that the soil PH should be 6.5
Since I was concerned that the nutes were causing the PH to rise too high, I purposefully decreased the nute solution PH slightly below 6.5 (about 6.25) to hopefully insure that the plants would not be burned now, or later due to a build up of the nutes in the soil over the course of the grow cycle.

I did put some thought into this, but I am still hitting a brick wall with the nutes...

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

This sentence confuses me: "I then added PH- until the PH of all Nute solutions (grow, bloom, and root respectively) dropped to about 6 or 6.25 (should be perfect, right?). "

How exactly are you mixing the nutes? How much of each? Do you use all of them each time? Are you using a real measuring spoon?

We do not use full strength nutrients on baby plants. When we start nutrients, we do not give full strength nutrients (I recommend you get some kind of ppm meter to monitor the strength of your nutrients). We start them out on nutrients that are about 1/8 to 1/4 strength. I am pretty sure that you are simply frying your plants with a nute solution that is too strong. Mix like indicated (make sure you always use good measuring devices) and then mix in 3-5 times more water than you originally used. Then water your plants with a small amount of this and see how they take it.

A pH of 6.0 or 6.25 is too low .Having the incorrect pH will not burn the plants--having too high a concentration of nutes will. When your pH is out of whack, it locks out nutrients, so lowering your pH to try and keep your plants from burning doesn't work. You need to lower the ppms of your nute solution.

 

[JohnnyV.]

Hemp Goddess: THANK YOU!!!

I very carefully measured the nutes.
And I mixed them separately (i.e. a bottle of "grow", a separate bottle of "root", etc.).

However, I gave the plants this "finished full strength" solution at 3 weeks of age.

I did not further dilute the nutes in the initial "feedings".

It sounds like you found my problem!!!
THANK YOU!!!!

I will throw away my current solution mixes (because the PH is now too low).
I will then re-mix as you have advised and (once the plants stabilize) then further dilute the solutions as you recommended and try once more.

THANK YOU!!!

Johnny

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

I have never seen nutes where each one was mixed and fed to the plant separately. Are you sure this is how the instructions read? Are you supposed to be feeding that way? Is there anywhere online that I can read the feeding instructions?

For instance with GH Flora series nutes which consist of grow, micro, and bloom, we add micro to the water first, and then the grow and bloom to the same water. We use different amounts of each, depending on where we are in the growth cycle.

 

[pcduck]

A link to a pdf for Cellmax.

doesn't really say much, but there is a feeding schedule.:confused2:

hbiup://www.cellmax.nl/images/pdf/CEL7004_fld_BioUK1_A5_fc.pdf

 

[kaotik]

are you using their cellmax soil too?
i know nothing of this product. but reading, says; "cellmax contains all the nutrients required for the first 6 weeks"
*reading further on their bottles, says their grow is unnecessary when using their soil.

are you using their cellmax soil?
basically you nuted an already nuted soil if so.

like THG says, start lower for babies, and work up (easier to add more later, than try to remove too much )


just a thought about ph'ing, what is your ph down? this cellmax stuff is apparently organic. a chemical ph down will bascally kill all it's goodness.

can't say much more. looks like this is a dutch product, so can't read more.

*but one more thought; you're not using grow and bloom at the same time right now are you?

 

[Locked]

What are you using to test the ph of your nutrient solution and water? You can't really rely on those crappy strips. You need an actual meter. Also, once you start feeding them you will also need to start ph'ing all the water you give them to between 6.3-6.8. I ph everything to 6.5. Sounds like you fed at to high a strength and your ph could also be off. Jmo

 

[JohnnyV.]

Hello all,

Yes, I am using the Cellmax soil (as seen in the kit, link provided earlier).
The instructions on each of the cellmax nute bottles are similar and say nothing about other celltech nutes (i.e. whether I should be mixing the "grow" and "root" solutions in the same dilution).
The instructions only state how to dilute each type of nute (i.e. separately).
Therefore, this is the way in which I administered them.

I was concerned that giving them 2 types of nute solution on the same day would be too much for the plant ("grow" and "root" for example are shown in the nute schedule as being administered 1/week).

So, I would administer "root" on Fridays (for example) and "grow" a few days later (Sundays). Is this "better" or "worse" than giving them together on the same day?

I am using a chemical PH tester (again please refer to the kit linked earlier) which seems to work pretty well.

One last question, If I should not use PH- to decrease the PH of the nute solution, then why was PH- included in this grow kit???

Thank you!!

 

[Locked]

What was said is that chemical ph adjustments might kill your micro herd if you are growing organic.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Are you using this nute schedule? hXXp://www.hydroponics.eu/growing-schedule-cellmax-nutrients-fertilizer_28-164.html

When you see schedules written like this, add the nutrients listed to the same water. You are supposed to use the recommended dosage of each all at the same time. When they call for x ml of roots, x ml of grow, and x ml of bloom, you add them one at a time to the same water.

The pH tester that came with your kit is not nearly accurate enough (they should be ashamed of themselves for selling it with the kit). You need something that will give you the pH in tenths. There is a whole lot of difference between 6 and 7. You need a meter.

What we are saying is that whatever you use to adjust your pH needs to be organic or you risk killing the microbes in the soil. If they gave you chemical pH + or-, they shouldn't have....just as they shouldn't have included a pH tester that is not accurate enough. I never recommend people buying kits for this exact reason. Many times, what they include in the kit does not work. I know that HTG sells a duct booster fan with one of their kits and those are virtually useless. Just because it came in your set-up does not mean that it is the right thing to use.

 

[Rosebud]

quit nuteing your plants, especially if they are in prenuted soil. I used to plant in ffof and not feed for 5 weeks. Now i do my own soil. People want to sell you stuff you don't need. Keep it simple and listen to the good peeps of MP. Green mojo.

 

[Kupunakane]

Yo Ho JohnnyV,

Sounds like the nutes are giving your ladies some bad timeunto death. Well your still just in the veg stage. I can guarantee you if your burning them now, your going to scorch them seriously when you flip them.
I would wait with my ferts untill they had a decent footing in the veg state, then ever so gently you start the ferting, but go easy and water the stuff down if you need to.

Here is a little MoJo to help you out,

bth_GreenMoJo 2.jpg

smoke in peace
KingKahuuna:icon_smile:

 

[randm999]

Why are you feeding plants when they are only 3 weeks old? I've never seen or heard of any need to feed them at all unless they are in coco coir or some other soiless medium. If your soil, of which I admit I am unfamiliar with, has any kind of nutriants in it at all, then why add more??????
First feeding should be very sparing, 1/4 strength at the most.
Personally I do not feed my plants until they are transplanted into their final pot. And then only if they are in that pot for a month or so. Again, the nutriants in the soil should be more than ample to keep them happy. Next time you decide to grow, try just transplanting from small, to medium, to final sized pots without adding any nutriants at all, Just be sure to transplant when the roots are well established and filling the pot ( I transplant when I see roots comming out of the bottom drain holes).
Basically I think yoiu are killing them with over feeding.

 

[JohnnyV.]

Randm999: I can answer that easily, I was nuting the plants because the grow kit that I purchased included nutes and instructed me to nute the plants according to the aforementioned schedule.

I guess the issue is that the kit was apparently designed by a monkey and includes not only the materials that are needed to grow my plants, but also many which will kill them as well… Fantastic.

No more nutes for my plants!

Thank you all!

Oh wait… one last question (I hope), if I am not nuting my plants then why would I need a PH tester? I thought that the nutes were the main cause oft he PH increasing over time and that this PH would need to be reduced using PH- at some point.
However if I am not using nutes, why would I need to check the PH?

Thanks again!
Johnny

 

[pcduck]

Nutes are absorbed at different pH rates, but through testing they have concluded that 6.5 is overall the best for soil. If the pH is out of whack your plant will not absorb the nutes that are already in the soil.

 

[4u2sm0ke]

Plants uptake of the nutes in the soil is why we adjust the PH of the water as well...not just the nutrients...get that PH at 6.5 and watch those babby expload:aok:


take care and be safe