Trimming / Budding Experiment

[leafminer]

I am removing their leaves (nutrient storage centers - which I compensate their loss with enough nutes

- this is not the way things work! Your 'nutes' are only precursor chemicals. The plant uses cellular respiration and photosynthesis to convert those into carbohydrates. Without leaves you can supply all the 'nutes' you want, the plant will be unable to use them.

 

[legalize_freedom]

Why are you posting on a public forum if you are not wanting to hear other peoples oppinions, you are the one that brought the whole subject up. Do you honestly think that anyone cares enough to get angry about what you do with your grow??? That is laughable, you could water with sulfuric acid, and I could care less...it's not my grow.

If you say that you are doing an experiment on a public forum, then I guess we assume that you are doing the experiment for the benefit of the forum. So to come back on later and act like you don't care what we think about your experiment, because it's for you anyway makes no sense...but then the experiment makes no sense either.

I think CMD was right, I think you were fishing for the answers that you wanted or some groupies to cheer you on and cosign your lack off logic, and when you didn't get the response you wanted you are then ready to gather up your toys and go home.

I envision already 4-6 weeks from now you popping back in here claiming that the plant you cut all the leaves off was the best yeilder...so that you can be some sort of plant mutilating hero....when in reality we all know what will happen. I'm sure thats why people would like to see pics now...so they can compare it at harvest...if it makes it that long.

Seems the only one sounding Angry on here is you, because no one is backing up your theory. Good Luck to you!

 

[Growdude]

Though the experiment may be worthless to you without pics - my plants are right here in front of me, and I will see the results - so certainly the experiment is not worthless.

And we are supposed to just take your word on it?

Its not the experiment thats worthless, its this thread without pictures.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

I am removing their leaves (nutrient storage centers - which I compensate their loss with enough nutes

- this is not the way things work! Your 'nutes' are only precursor chemicals. The plant uses cellular respiration and photosynthesis to convert those into carbohydrates. Without leaves you can supply all the 'nutes' you want, the plant will be unable to use them.

Yes, I have learned this too.

I would like to test this to see whether or not the fan leaves can be removed (to let in more light) to see if this works better, and if enough leaves are left (i.e. spear leaves up each stalk/branch) to provide these necessary nutrients as you explain.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

Why are you posting on a public forum if you are not wanting to hear other peoples oppinions, you are the one that brought the whole subject up. Do you honestly think that anyone cares enough to get angry about what you do with your grow??? That is laughable, you could water with sulfuric acid, and I could care less...it's not my grow.

If you say that you are doing an experiment on a public forum, then I guess we assume that you are doing the experiment for the benefit of the forum. So to come back on later and act like you don't care what we think about your experiment, because it's for you anyway makes no sense...but then the experiment makes no sense either.

I think CMD was right, I think you were fishing for the answers that you wanted or some groupies to cheer you on and cosign your lack off logic, and when you didn't get the response you wanted you are then ready to gather up your toys and go home.

I envision already 4-6 weeks from now you popping back in here claiming that the plant you cut all the leaves off was the best yeilder...so that you can be some sort of plant mutilating hero....when in reality we all know what will happen. I'm sure thats why people would like to see pics now...so they can compare it at harvest...if it makes it that long.

Seems the only one sounding Angry on here is you, because no one is backing up your theory. Good Luck to you!

Well, yes, I thought I would offer the results of the experiment to the forum, but if you do go back and read some of the replies, after my one first post people were comparing me to mgfcom, saying I had chopped off all leaves when they had not seen pictures.

Too much assumption.

And then there is the issue of pre-prejudiced judgements. Unless someone has actually tried this, how can they know what works better? More light to the bud points or more fan leaves?

Pictures may be available at harvest. I will photograph the plants and say: this is the trimmed girl, this are the remaining untouched girls. Judge for yourself. Not possible to photograph now.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

LOL--I cannot believe that you think that you can change the biology of the plant:rofl: :rofl:

Jeez, borrow a camera.

 

[BBFan]

It seems too many people here are vehemently angry that I have trimmed off all FAN leaves (I never said all leaves on the plant).

I am not biased, which is why I am experimenting to see what are the results. Whichever way is proven to be better by observation then I will grow that way for all plants the next time.

Though the experiment may be worthless to you without pics - my plants are right here in front of me, and I will see the results - so certainly the experiment is not worthless.

Hello Strawberry Cough-

You're right- this thread did turn a little angry. I can only apologize for myself- so- I am sorry if I offended. Never was my intent. I hope you will stick around and post your results.

Since you had already done it (cut off the fans) when you posted here- it really didn't matter what we said or didn't say. It was already Fait Accompli- an accomplished fact. I understand you were not seeking advice- it was clearly stated in your original post.

I think though, that most of us would have liked to see pictures (I know you said you can't). It would have been of great benefit- perhaps made into a sticky- as the underlying question has been asked many times before.

I still hope we can follow along to see the plants progress relative to the other 3. I have my opinion on how this will end for you- so yes I'm biased. Still, it would be great to see the progress in pics, but short of that, your descriptions would be appreciated.

Have a great day! It's all good!

 

[zem]

Unless someone has actually tried this, how can they know what works better? More light to the bud points or more fan leaves?

Pictures may be available at harvest. I will photograph the plants and say: this is the trimmed girl, this are the remaining untouched girls. Judge for yourself. Not possible to photograph now.

:laugh: no thanks dude i dont wana try this great science "experiment" just get some pics in here already, dont you have a cellphone cam? borrow a cam or something

 

[ASEgrower]

without pictures now and during and at the end, your experiment is bunk and will be ridiculed again when you post results. Just sayin'.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

Hello Strawberry Cough-

You're right- this thread did turn a little angry. I can only apologize for myself- so- I am sorry if I offended. Never was my intent. I hope you will stick around and post your results.

Since you had already done it (cut off the fans) when you posted here- it really didn't matter what we said or didn't say. It was already Fait Accompli- an accomplished fact. I understand you were not seeking advice- it was clearly stated in your original post.

I think though, that most of us would have liked to see pictures (I know you said you can't). It would have been of great benefit- perhaps made into a sticky- as the underlying question has been asked many times before.

I still hope we can follow along to see the plants progress relative to the other 3. I have my opinion on how this will end for you- so yes I'm biased. Still, it would be great to see the progress in pics, but short of that, your descriptions would be appreciated.

Have a great day! It's all good!

Thank you for your kind words here. Yes, too many "ugly" comments here.

It is ok if you have a "bias" (i.e. scientific theory / slash / hypothesis) of what will happen. Science will either prove or disprove your hypothesis. I am not set on either way - just whatever will produce the best buds.

But no need to make comments - it's more the intended verbal tone than the words which is offensive - such as these (1 example of quite a few):

LOL--I cannot believe that you think that you can change the biology of the plant:rofl: :rofl:

Jeez, borrow a camera.

I am not trying to change the biology of a plant. I am experimenting to see what really is important (light or fan leaves). In nature, the sun's light is so pervasive that it is everywhere. With indoor light, many of the fan leaves block light from reaching many parts of the plant.

And your comment (and the way you say it) about a camera demonstrates you are (forgive me) arrogant American who thinks the whole world has the same standard of living as you. Cameras are a luxury in my country, and especially in my socio-economic class, and not a common item as they are in USA with blackberries, 2 or 3 or more cars per household etc.

I thought women are supposed to be the more sensitive and kinder sex of the two...go figure.

 

[zem]

wait im not in the U.S i see cams on all cell phones i mean really you could find digi cams with somalian tribes nowadays nobody is ridiculing we just want some pics sure you could get some

 

[legalize_freedom]

Well strawberry I for one can relate to not haveing a camera, so not all of us americans have them. I also never had a computer until a few months ago, or a cell phone until my daughter talked me into it...not that I couldn't affird it, I just never saw the point in haveing any of them...I'm a little old fashioned I guess...now that I have the comp, and cell, I would like to get a camera to, to post pics of my grows, I understand how it is.

I think people just want to see the results, instead of haveing to rely on what someone says...I mean I could say I have 100 sq ft grow with 8 1000w lights, co2 etc...without pics it is not believable. I'm sure you can understand this.

I felt like you were getting mad at me for pointing out what you said earlier, and I was only trying to show you why people thought the way they did. But I can understand the defensive nature when you feel like you are getting ganged up on.

I know that the experiment has been tried before...I have done the same thing outdoors yrs ago, trying to let the sun hit bud sites...I know several who have made the mistake of doing it indoors to get light to the sites to...always with the same results. I can respect your curiosety to see for yourself. The reason I think everyone is telling you what is going to happen because it is based on scientific fact, the plants need their leaves to absorb light, to be able to use the nutrients...it is not an oppinion...it is a fact...there is a reason the plants grow with leaves, if it didn't need them it wouldn't have them.

Again I can respect that you need to see this for yourself, to be believed, I think alot of the reason for the sarcasm is because most of us don't see the point in the experiment, as we know what the results will be.

Like I said before it's your grow, do whatever you feel you need to do to proove whatever to yourself. I wish you luck!

 

[cmd420]

I thought women are supposed to be the more sensitive and kinder sex of the two...go figure.[/quote]

I assume that you want to be a member in good standing at this site..

Based upon that assumption, I would say that it is an extremely bad idea to snipe at:

1. Someone who is willing to help you
2. Someone with much more experience than you have
3. Someone who is a positive member on this site
4. A moderator

real bad idea




you are going down a really bad road here dude.....

If I were you I would just delete this thread and start over...

it is a worthless thread with no pics to back it up and is going no place good..

just grow pot...

 

[kaotik]

:yeahthat:
dude, abide

 

[Hick]

hXXp://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookPS.html <-- photosynthesis
..it is Light on the fan leaves' that provides, allows, performs .."PHOTOSYNTHESIS" .. not light on the buds or stems or dirt in the bottom of the pot.

Without allowing the community to observe and follow along, no one is going to take your word for it. In order to bring any validity to the ..'experiment'.. it must be documented. We need to see it being performed. Not just you saying, "I cut all my fan leaves off and I got more bud"... you could say that a thousand times, in a dozen different languages, and no one is going to believe it. It means 'nothing' without a series of pictures documenting it.
thats all... nobody is condemning you for trying it, only for trying to prove it without showing us the pudding..

 

[BBFan]

Geez folks- it's done. He cut the fan leaves off without asking our opinion. What's done is done. I can't fault the guy for getting defensive after reading some of our posts. Many of us had the "holier-than-thou" attitude and others were just plain nasty. He doesn't have a camera / can't take pics- whatever the reason, that's the reason- get over it.

Science will either prove or disprove your hypothesis. I am not set on either way - just whatever will produce the best buds.

Strawberry Cough-

If you really want to let us know the results (and I hope you do and can at least post some pics of the final results), you need to tell us some more. You've established that you removed all fan leaves and left the bud leaves.

Were these clones of the same mom or from seed?

What's the strain- is it sativa or indica dominant?

Was the one you trimmed showing any different phenos than the others, or perhaps less vigorous than the others?


If you can't do pics, for it to be at least basic scientific method, you need to track what you've done so that it can be replicated. It's not really science- but you're invested to this point. Perhaps something can come of this. And maybe we can all learn something here.

In spite of what I may have said in earlier posts, I'm interested and would like to know the results.

Thanks.
-BBFan

 

[Strawberry Cough]

Well strawberry I for one can relate to not haveing a camera, so not all of us americans have them. I also never had a computer until a few months ago, or a cell phone until my daughter talked me into it...not that I couldn't affird it, I just never saw the point in haveing any of them...I'm a little old fashioned I guess...now that I have the comp, and cell, I would like to get a camera to, to post pics of my grows, I understand how it is.

I think people just want to see the results, instead of haveing to rely on what someone says...I mean I could say I have 100 sq ft grow with 8 1000w lights, co2 etc...without pics it is not believable. I'm sure you can understand this.

I felt like you were getting mad at me for pointing out what you said earlier, and I was only trying to show you why people thought the way they did. But I can understand the defensive nature when you feel like you are getting ganged up on.

I know that the experiment has been tried before...I have done the same thing outdoors yrs ago, trying to let the sun hit bud sites...I know several who have made the mistake of doing it indoors to get light to the sites to...always with the same results. I can respect your curiosety to see for yourself. The reason I think everyone is telling you what is going to happen because it is based on scientific fact, the plants need their leaves to absorb light, to be able to use the nutrients...it is not an oppinion...it is a fact...there is a reason the plants grow with leaves, if it didn't need them it wouldn't have them.

Again I can respect that you need to see this for yourself, to be believed, I think alot of the reason for the sarcasm is because most of us don't see the point in the experiment, as we know what the results will be.

Like I said before it's your grow, do whatever you feel you need to do to proove whatever to yourself. I wish you luck!

Thank you for your very kind tone in your message. I understand what you have said, and respect your opinion and experience.

Yes, I need to see for myself because I have noticed the buds that are blocked from my light by the fan leaves are the least developed. The sunshine outside will hit all parts of the plant including bud sites and spear leaves and whatever other types of classifications of leaves are between fan leaves and bud.

Yes, plants need leaves for photosynthesis, but being experienced gardener, I can tell you that a good trimming on many other types of plants really helps to increase growth and promote good fruiting sites (e.g. lemons).

 

[Strawberry Cough]

I thought women are supposed to be the more sensitive and kinder sex of the two...go figure.[/quote]

I assume that you want to be a member in good standing at this site..

Based upon that assumption, I would say that it is an extremely bad idea to snipe at:

1. Someone who is willing to help you
2. Someone with much more experience than you have
3. Someone who is a positive member on this site
4. A moderator

real bad idea




you are going down a really bad road here dude.....

If I were you I would just delete this thread and start over...

it is a worthless thread with no pics to back it up and is going no place good..

just grow pot...

I would hardly say that that the following statement is helpful. It is simply belittling:

LOL--I cannot believe that you think that you can change the biology of the plant:rofl: :rofl:

Jeez, borrow a camera.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

hXXp://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookPS.html <-- photosynthesis
..it is Light on the fan leaves' that provides, allows, performs .."PHOTOSYNTHESIS" .. not light on the buds or stems or dirt in the bottom of the pot.

Without allowing the community to observe and follow along, no one is going to take your word for it. In order to bring any validity to the ..'experiment'.. it must be documented. We need to see it being performed. Not just you saying, "I cut all my fan leaves off and I got more bud"... you could say that a thousand times, in a dozen different languages, and no one is going to believe it. It means 'nothing' without a series of pictures documenting it.
thats all... nobody is condemning you for trying it, only for trying to prove it without showing us the pudding..

...and I have said I will try to provide photos at harvest for comparison.

But I make a post and people demand pictures (truly demand) within hours. I have at least 3-5 weeks until harvest.

I am not the only one growing. Others can either prove or disprove if they are so certain, and they can take their pictures and provide.

I don't have a camera.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

You've established that you removed all fan leaves and left the bud leaves.

Were these clones of the same mom or from seed?

What's the strain- is it sativa or indica dominant?

Was the one you trimmed showing any different phenos than the others, or perhaps less vigorous than the others?


If you can't do pics, for it to be at least basic scientific method, you need to track what you've done so that it can be replicated. It's not really science- but you're invested to this point. Perhaps something can come of this. And maybe we can all learn something here.

In spite of what I may have said in earlier posts, I'm interested and would like to know the results.

Thanks.
-BBFan

Your kind tone is refreshing and very nice and welcoming.

These are currently from seed, 4 separate moms, all sisters from same mother and father. A friend ordered WW but said it was send without the breeder pack for superstealth. So not certain definitely WW. But tonight is 5 weeks and I see the white crystals really starting to pack on tonight. So maybe it is.

Your question about phenos brings up interesting point - the different growth characteristics and speeds.

However, my clones of the alpha mom also have different growth speeds so having clones does not necessarily guarantee uniform growth (i.e. control) for the scientific method. I will have to just show picture of how the growth COMPARES to the non-trimmed plants (sisters of same age within a few days / weeks).

Or, if using clones would be better for more accurate results, this experiment will have to wait a few months while my cloned girls veg.

...but then again another variable is the size of the pots I place them in. One is small, one is large, one is HUGE...