Trimming / Budding Experiment

[Mutt]

the proof is in the pudding...http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38984
"lolipopping" ....removing lower branches to allow more growth be directed to the tops, where the light is most beneficial, and removing the plants ability to photosynthesise by removing the fan leaves, also where light is most beneficial, are far far different methods and will result in different outcomes.
Removing upper fan leaves that are recieving full light is NOT going to benefit the plant, not in any manner. Not only speaking from a couple of decades of experience, but from a common sense botanical point of view.

on a side note...during the last phases of flower when Nitrogen is depleted, the lower fan leaves fall off and work there way up. So by cutting the plants top ones you are in a sense meeting the near death phase 1/2 way and spreading up the process without allowing the full term of flower.

i don't need any pictures of it to KNOW trimming all the fan leaves off is a bad idea. Thinning them if you have an excessive bushy plant and need better light penetration and air flow to avoid bud rot..but not to cut all of them off. Mom nature put those leaves there for a purpose to gain Energy from the light.

I've abused plants left and right, cut em, trimmed em, tied em, topped em, no veg, long veg, rootbound, bonsai, you name it i did it to know what this plant was capable of...trimming off fan leaves may give the "appearance" of fatter buds..well when you trim off those fan leaves of course the buds look fatter you took away proportion. Which will trick the human eye.

Its just plain science man....Google "biology of plants" that will shed some definitive proof on what your doing is wrong.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

Its just plain science man....Google "biology of plants" that will shed some definitive proof on what your doing is wrong.

Some people are so dogmatic and stubborn.

Show me ONE scientific study comparing trimmed and non-trimmed bud, please, just ONE.

Trimming (aka pruning) is a well-known technique used for centuries in gardening with various plants and trees to increase fruit production.

Whether or not it works here for MJ for indoor grows is open for discussion. Contrary to what others seem to be forcing down my throat (i.e. claiming I am advocating this technique), I am not biased one way or the other - which is why I am experimenting (not advising), and whatever I observe I will do for my PERSONAL grows.

How about this? I will not report results so that I don't spread this "misinformation" that you "won't allow".

Ignorance is bliss, isn't it? ok, hick, is right. trimming is under no circumstances advisable.

 

[Mutt]

You do what you want strawberry cough. you do exactly what ever you want.
But, I will not just let you post up whatever your opinion is without expressing mine. But from the looks I do research a lot more than you. I have no use for disinformation.
I just know what works in my garden and the other 4 people i've trained in real life. The 20+ strains I've tested, abused, maximized, and crossed. Disregard my 15 yrs of OD growing and 6 yrs of ID growing. Call me "dogmatic"...its a weed, it flowers and blooms like others that are photoperiod dependent.
Show me PROOF that your buds get bigger when you trim the fan leaves. Until then Kiss my furry butt. Also when that happens....you'll have went against almost every grow journal in this and every other forum....proving them all wrong.

• light energy

• == 6CO2 + 6H2O --------> C6H12O6 + 6O2 ==

• carbon dioxide + water +light energy------> carbohydrates+ oxygen

Photosynthesis is a lot more complicated than the simplified diagram above. In plants, there are organelles within each plant cell called chloroplasts. These organelles are VERY similar to bacteria that also photosynthesize using chlorophyll. Chlorophyll is a protein associated with a metal (Magnesium) and almost identical to the haemoglobin of animal blood and myoglobin of animal cells. Chlorophyll absorbs energy from the sun and combines ADP (Adenosine Di Phosphate) with a phosphate group to form ATP (Adenosine Tri Phosphate).
ADP + Phosphate + light energy -> ATP
This ATP has more energy than ADP. This extra energy is used by a number of other enzymes which build glucose molecules (C6H12O6 above) via a number of processes.

The more cells you have the better that INCLUDES fan leaves...so there's my proof show me yours???
Read more on botany b4 you cross paths with some of us.........Some of us take what you just posted as a direct insult to the years of study we have worked at to understand this plant.
It produces carbs,,,,,,if you lok at ANY end flower bud booster its CARBS that make the buds and your cutting off mother natures carb factories.

PS pruning is what i do to my mother plants. Thats NOT taking off all the fan leaves..but thining them and lowering the canopy to a managable level.

If ingorance is bliss..you must be one blissful person.

man 3 mos ago i woulda banned this guy..

 

[Mutt]

hXXp://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/e24/24.htm
hXXp://www.squidoo.com/photosynthesis
hXXp://biology.clc.uc.edu/Courses/Bio104/photosyn.htm

oh there's more...
Weed is not some plant that rebukes the laws of nature..plain and simple..its a weed.
In a nut shell by cutting all fan leaves you have reduced the amount of energy going to the buds...period scientific law and fact. The lowers that receive no light yes..as they are not useful...The plant will shed them on there own. The green ones that recieve light the plant depends on for the energy used to produce buds. Its science. put the blunt down and read a book.

 

[cmd420]

"Show me ONE scientific study comparing trimmed and non-trimmed bud, please, just ONE."
I DID IT...I TRIMMED FAN LEAVES ON SOME PLANTS AND DIDN'T ON OTHERS AND ON THE ONES THAT GOT TRIMMED, THE HARVEST WAS DRAMATICALLY, NOTICEABLY, SMALLER...I don't need a doctor to come along and tell me that it will not be good for me to shoot myself either..





"Trimming (aka pruning) is a well-known technique used for centuries in gardening with various plants and trees to increase fruit production."
I can help you with this one real quick..

go look up "trimming" (as it relates to plants)...

then go look up "pruning"....

they will not be the same definition...period...

there ya go...now go and study what each really is and report back on what you find...

tell us if you still want to stick with your "experiement"...if you do I can think of some more homework for you...until the lesson is learned...

I wish I had had someone to school me when I first started...lucky!

 

[Hick]

Some people are so dogmatic and stubborn.

YES.. and you are their poster child..

Show me ONE scientific study comparing trimmed and non-trimmed bud, please, just ONE.

It is simple plant biology fer krise sakes...
your observations, experiment aren't going to present anything even remotely conclusive. You've already stated that they are in different sized pots, different ages, ect. There is nothing even remotely scientific or revealing about your procedure. EVEN if you had pictures, it would be invalid simply due to your lack of control.
Mutt is correct, you are insulting our intelligence with your continued arguements. Not one thing you have said lends credit or supports your ideas. While several posts have directed you to evidence, scientific proof, that removing the plants ability to photosynthsise is detrimental to growth.

 

[iamtd]

wow....:holysheep:

:argue: :chillpill:

 

[zem]

Show me ONE scientific study comparing trimmed and non-trimmed bud, please, just ONE.

thats cuz none was so foolish to go through such an experiment with a known result. , i actually wish they teach you the hard way and die
but problem is your all over the forum with your false crazy LETHAL theories
edited....

 

[Strawberry Cough]

thats cuz none was so foolish to go through such an experiment with a known result. , i actually wish they teach you the hard way and die
but problem is your all over the forum with your false crazy LETHAL theories
edited....

Ok, if it is known result, please direct me to where I can see the evidence myself.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

YES.. and you are their poster child..


It is simple plant biology fer krise sakes...
your observations, experiment aren't going to present anything even remotely conclusive. You've already stated that they are in different sized pots, different ages, ect. There is nothing even remotely scientific or revealing about your procedure. EVEN if you had pictures, it would be invalid simply due to your lack of control.
Mutt is correct, you are insulting our intelligence with your continued arguements. Not one thing you have said lends credit or supports your ideas. While several posts have directed you to evidence, scientific proof, that removing the plants ability to photosynthsise is detrimental to growth.

Wow, it seems you guys really project ideas and theories on to me.

I have not recommended in any way whatsoever to do this. IT IS NOT ADVICE. I have simply shared my experiment. Please go back and read what I have said. I have even explicitly stated a couple of times now to not misconstrue this as advice, and it is only for my own personal knowledge.

Yes, I agreed with the person who first raised the issues about controls (kindly I might add) that my experiment is admittedly not scientific because it lacks the controls. Yes, I admitted it would not be valid and asked if anyone is willing to take on the mission to actually PROVE that trimming is not better than not trimming.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

"Show me ONE scientific study comparing trimmed and non-trimmed bud, please, just ONE."
I DID IT...I TRIMMED FAN LEAVES ON SOME PLANTS AND DIDN'T ON OTHERS AND ON THE ONES THAT GOT TRIMMED, THE HARVEST WAS DRAMATICALLY, NOTICEABLY, SMALLER...I don't need a doctor to come along and tell me that it will not be good for me to shoot myself either..





"Trimming (aka pruning) is a well-known technique used for centuries in gardening with various plants and trees to increase fruit production."
I can help you with this one real quick..

go look up "trimming" (as it relates to plants)...

then go look up "pruning"....

they will not be the same definition...period...

there ya go...now go and study what each really is and report back on what you find...

tell us if you still want to stick with your "experiement"...if you do I can think of some more homework for you...until the lesson is learned...

I wish I had had someone to school me when I first started...lucky!

Very good if your knowledge comes from personal experience.

Were you similarly berated by members here for "advising" when you simply were reporting what had already been done?

 

[Strawberry Cough]

You do what you want strawberry cough. you do exactly what ever you want.
But, I will not just let you post up whatever your opinion is without expressing mine.
Show me PROOF that your buds get bigger when you trim the fan leaves. Until then Kiss my furry butt. Also when that happens....you'll have went against almost every grow journal in this and every other forum....proving them all wrong.



The more cells you have the better that INCLUDES fan leaves...so there's my proof show me yours???
Read more on botany b4 you cross paths with some of us.........Some of us take what you just posted as a direct insult to the years of study we have worked at to understand this plant.
It produces carbs,,,,,,if you lok at ANY end flower bud booster its CARBS that make the buds and your cutting off mother natures carb factories.

PS pruning is what i do to my mother plants. Thats NOT taking off all the fan leaves..but thining them and lowering the canopy to a managable level.

If ingorance is bliss..you must be one blissful person.

man 3 mos ago i woulda banned this guy..

Let me clear for the last time: I do not have an opinion one way or the other until I observe the results of my experiment - contrary to what some people here want to believe that I have said (which I haven't).

I do not advise cutting your fan leaves if you do not want.

I was bored, decided to experiment, and await the results of my experiment.

I do not have an opinion one way or the other, as I am not biased.

To state for the last time: if it turns out that my 3 girls that have not been trimmed produce bigger buds (or better buds), then I will learn from experience that trimming is bad even until indoor (one direction) light conditions.

 

[cmd420]

I'm not berating..

I actually do think that you are lucky..seriously..

I also can relate to your stubborness..like I said before..with a sense of affection...you seem to need to learn the hard way..like me..nothin wrong with that

I just wish you hadn't done the cutting cuz you'll probably be bummed in the end...

that's all...that's probably what some other folks are thinking/feeling too..

 

[legalize_freedom]

Unless the one that got butchered is in the biggest pot, then then this will be the plant that produces the most for you...if all the same strain.

Again, I don't think you will find anyone willing to hurt their yeilds to take on an experiment that will obviousely have negative results. If it were an experiment that might give posotive results I may have been willing to partake.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

Unless the one that got butchered is in the biggest pot, then then this will be the plant that produces the most for you...if all the same strain.

Again, I don't think you will find anyone willing to hurt their yeilds to take on an experiment that will obviousely have negative results. If it were an experiment that might give posotive results I may have been willing to partake.

You can't know for certain unless someone actually does it and tries it. So far I see one person here saying he has done it, tried it, and observed that it is harmful to bud production. Very good that he had the courage to take a risk and experiment. No pain, no gain. Mistakes and failures are good if we learn from them.

Who knows? What if, for argument's sake, the trimmed plant goes into a sort of mini-stress (like the guy who recommends cleaving in last few days saying the plant thinks it is going to die so it concentrates all its energy in the buds), and what if as a result it starts packing on the trichs concentrating all its energy in the buds? If I don't try it, I won't know.

I am not saying this will happen! I am saying how can I possibly know unless I try it?

 

[PuffinNugs]

cant wait to see some pictures

 

[ASEgrower]

I won't be dragged into an argument, but a few points:

1.) I am from America; no jealously here - I left that empty materialistic life because it is just a rat-race to keep up with the Jones to consume and have more.

2.) I did not say all Americans were like this. Only that the comment from Hg demonstrated this arrogant attitude, "Jeez, get a camera", i.e. "who can't afford a friggin' camera? - loser!" Well, I can't, as well as many others.

3.) Your statement, "You are lazy, get a better job", really demonstrates your ignorance. Ok, poor woman in Africa, your poverty is your own doing. Get your behind off the ground and go work for 1 dollar a day. Not enough money? Go find a better job... You see, the rest of the world works very hard, but it ain't so easy to just go "find a job". Pay is less in countries outside of USA, and costs are higher. So if I make 1/2 and things cost double, you can do the math as to priorities: rent, food, clothes, bills, transportation to/from work, wife, children, etc.

Nuff said.

So you left our horrible lifestyle, complain about not having, then blame us as americans? OK. Are you a poor woman living in africa working for a 1 dollar a day? No, you arent, thats a bunk attempt at making a stupid point.

Simple fact is, you can afford internet access, some lights, and can grow pot, but you dont want to pony up for a cheap camera. You set your priorities where they are and then blame others because of your "social class." Bet I can guess your political affiliation too.

 

[legalize_freedom]

You can't know for certain unless someone actually does it and tries it. So far I see one person here saying he has done it, tried it, and observed that it is harmful to bud production. Very good that he had the courage to take a risk and experiment. No pain, no gain. Mistakes and failures are good if we learn from them.

Who knows? What if, for argument's sake, the trimmed plant goes into a sort of mini-stress (like the guy who recommends cleaving in last few days saying the plant thinks it is going to die so it concentrates all its energy in the buds), and what if as a result it starts packing on the trichs concentrating all its energy in the buds? If I don't try it, I won't know.

I am not saying this will happen! I am saying how can I possibly know unless I try it?

You are wrong I don't know if it was in this thread or one of the many others useless threads that have been started about this, but I admitted to you in one of them that I had tried it 20 yrs ago, as a rookie, thinking that it would let light into the bottom of my plants...the same rookie thinking that you are haveing right now, and the results were a miserable failure. I also believe that Hick admitted to trying this many yrs ago when he started...I also Have many freinds who have made this mistake...that and basic science are the reasons everyone here is trying to tell you not to do it...but you want to sit there and tell us how ignorant we are for not trying it...just know that when you point your finger at someone you have 3 more pointing back at yourself. If you want to mutilate your plants ... feel free, but please stop the stupid arguing, you are never going to get people who have been growing before you were walking to try such an optuse experiment...I honestly can't understand why you would think that we would be that ignorant...knock yourself out kid...we don't care what you do, other than flooding this forum with thread after thread about your ignorant ideas. And your rookie arrogance is disgusting...maybe you should stick with greenbeans, or sunflowers.

 

[Hick]

cleaving in last few days

...more "wives tales" .. "urban myths".. "mis-information" As is boiling roots, hanging upside down to increase potency..

 

[iamtd]

what the heck is boiling a plants roots meant to do?