veggging and flour lights

[Hushpuppy]

No.... There are 2 things that are important. The spectrum, which is the color of the light. It is usually expressed here in US as thousands of degrees Kelvin. So a bulb that is putting out 6400K is producing light with a temperature comparison of degrees Kelvin, but that just represents the color white/blue. if the light is putting out 2700-3000K, then it is producing a color that is a red/orange. If the bulb says 5100K that means that it is putting out light that is a white/greenish color (also called "full spectrum" or "daylight"). That is the color, which is important to the phase of growth of the plant.

The next thing is lumens. This is a measure of the amount of light energy that a bulb is producing. Watts is the measure of electrical energy that is being pulled by the light to produce the light energy. Watts will run in parallel with the lumens. But watts is not an important factor because watts follow Lumens. You want to produce enough lumens over a given amount of space for the plants to get what they need to grow healthy and produce to their optimum ability. There are many variable that can be figured into the "optimum ability". That just means get it to grow as well as you can for the given environment.

For the typical grow conditions that we all work with on indoor grows, you need a minimum of 3000lumens produced over a square foot of growing space for vegging plants. That means if you have a 16square foot tent (4'x4') that you will veg plants in, then you need a light or lights strong enough to produce ate least 16 x 3000= 48,000 lumens.

If you keep those plants in the same tent and switch to flowering, then you will need a light that produces at least 5000lum per sqft or 16 x 5000=80,000. As I said, watts will follow lumens, so a T5 4' bulb that produces 5000 lumens is typically going to be about 54watts. But a 60watt cfl bulb will not necessarily produce nearly as many lumens as the T5 bulb. A fixture of 8 bulbs T5 4' 54w will produce 40,000 lumens. An HPS that is 600w will typically produce around 90,000-95,000 lumens depending on the manufacturer and condition of the bulb and ballast. A 1000w HPS will produce about 120,000-140,000 lumens. The Metal Halide bulbs of the same wattage will produce about 25-30% less lumens than the HPS.

Now let me confuse you an HPS that is 600w will produce say 92,000 lumens and in a 4x4 tent will give you 5750 lumens per sqft which is very good for flower (as the spectrum of the HPS is between 2000-3000 Kelvin or red/orange color). But if you take that same light and put it in a 5x5 tent, the light will only give you 3680 lumens per sqft which would only be good for veg (except the HPS is not as good for vegging as T5 or MH because of the spectrum or color). In order to get the better lumen amount (per square foot) is to increase from the 600w to the 1000w HPS.

I hope this makes sense to you iff you need more just ask

 

[blondlebanese]

still confuseing. I'm growing in a 48sq ft room. the actual grow box is 6'x3'. do I need to light up the whole room or just above the plants.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

If you actually have a 3 x 6 grow box that is contained in a larger room, all you need to light is the box. My flowering space is about the same size, but I have a separate space that I veg in that is 2 x 4 x 4. Since you have more room in your room, you may want to think about setting up a small veg space. I like the separate rooms so that I can start a plant every 2 weeks or so and then harvest a plant every 2 weeks or so.

Let's see if we can explain lighting a bit better for you. You pretty much need to look at the packaging of the bulbs you are using to get the correct lumen figure as most bulbs vary in how many lumens they put out. However, standard 4' 54W T5 high output tubes put out 5000 lumens per bulb, so 8 of them would be 40,000 lumens. But like Hush mentioned, the color spectrum is important, too. This is also a figure that you probably need to get from the packaging on the bulb also. As we all know from looking at rainbows, light comes in different colors. Growing plants like light in what we call the blue spectrum, the spectrum is noted in numbers with a K at the end. Blue spectrum is in the 6500K range, so when looking for vegging bulbs, you want to look for something that says it is somewhere around that number. Virtually all bulbs meant for growing will give you the spectrum of the bulb on the literature or packaging. Bulbs for flowering are in the red spectrum and are in the 2700K range.

Sizing your lights to your space--Like we mentioned, for vegging we want 3000 lumens per sq ft, so you look at your bulbs, figure out many lumens they are putting out. Then you measure your space in sq ft and multiply that by 3000 for vegging light and 5000 for flowering. So for a 3 x 6 space which is 18 sq ft, you would need 54,000 lumens if you are vegging. If you are flowering, you need 90,000. Keep in mind that these are minimums and it is really desirable to have more light if possible. I run a 1000W in a closet that is the same size as yours.

 

[Spookyashell]

If it is only pulling 135 watts, it isn't going to be putting out 15000 lumens.

Thats what they claim (are rated) Are you sure there hasn't been made progress with CFL. Hushpuppy said he had researched my bulbs and that they were very good.
Just look at Diesel engines, 15 years ago they were crap, now they are supurb.

 

[JimB]

b-leb, Tough to find more pleasure than paralysis of this analysis but you're there with what's necessary to make a good first run, view results, adjust.

Using 6x3 box, 5 ea single T-5 fixtures, 4ft, 6500K, about 7" side to side spacing, centered in box leave 1 ft uncovered ends, a great cause-effect display of light drop off compared to 7" between tubes.

This set-up will teach baseline for everything from cuttings (10x20 Tray,7" dome) lights about 8" above, to flowering plants about 16" tall, topped once or twice during about 3 wks veg training after rooting which should take about 10 days, and veg-flower with lights (4-6)" inches above.

There's a better rooting box, vegetative box, flower box, than your set-up but if you're looking to get out of the box (did I say that) on a first/early learning run, then the next important thing to do is get into motion and learn from doing, there's plenty on hand to go with.

Good luck, JimB.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Five single tubes is not nearly enough for a 6 x 3 box, putting out only 25,000 lumens, which is less than 1400 lumens per sq ft. You need at least double that. Go with 3000 lumens per sq ft (minimum), make the spacing of the bulbs such that when hung you will achieve 3000 lumens per sq ft.

 

[blondlebanese]

ok , if I increase the amount of tubes to 12 tubes that will give me 60000 lums that should be enough light, for a 3x6ft grow space. is that correct? for vegging. I now get it about dialing in on the grow as some of you have warned me about. I'm not going with co2 for now. I have too many other things to get right like the lighting,nutes,so on. and the cost is riseing as I learn.

 

[Locked]

3x6=18 sqr feet of grow space.
18x3000(lumens for Vegging)=54,000 lumens of light needed.
18x5000(lumens for Flower)=90,000 lumens of light needed.
So 60,000 lumens would work in the space for Veg but not for Flower. For Flower you need at least 90,000. Those are minimums. I have grown with the Min and I have grown with more than the min and it's no contest that more lumens are more better. At a certain point it is overkill but I usually shoot for 7500 lumens per sqr foot in Flower.

jmo

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

I also find 7500 lumens per sq ft to be the "sweet spot" for me. Beyond that without CO2 enhancement, I just don't see that much more growth.

 

[JimB]

5 ea T-5's over 6x3 box will make some fine plants, from Incept thru Harvest.

Front end of learning curve quickly turns to Zebra stripes and early gardeners weren't nearly so calculation dependent, they just put up some lights and learned.

Today there's much more info and better equipment but following economy budget & simple plan for first couple cycles is invaluable.

Up-grading from there will spend right $$$ at right spot.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

I'm sorry, but there is no way that 5 T5s are enough in 18 sq ft for growing cannabis. Yes, in the old days we just put up some lights and learned because we did not have the vast information that we do now available at our fingertips. Things are evolving every day. It is a waste of time and energy to try and reinvent the wheel. I am very happy being able to share information and take advantage of others knowledge and experiences without my having to try everything myself. Part of sharing this vast amount of knowledge is being able to ask those who have gone before you to avoid making those ill thought out purchases that everyone who has grown for a long time has made.

 

[blondlebanese]

5 ea T-5's over 6x3 box will make some fine plants, from Incept thru Harvest.

Front end of learning curve quickly turns to Zebra stripes and early gardeners weren't nearly so calculation dependent, they just put up some lights and learned.

Today there's much more info and better equipment but following economy budget & simple plan for first couple cycles is invaluable.

Up-grading from there will spend right $$$ at right spot.

thanks for the concern jimb but, I have this need to get it as right as possible the first time. a side affect from the meds I think.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

It is a mistake of the largest order to try and skimp on your lighting. Your lights are directly related to how much you yield. Inadequate lighting will always affect your yield, the density of the buds and the number of bud sites adversely. Underlit vegging spaces result in tall stretched plants with few budding spots. Underlit flowering spaces result in less bud and light airy buds.

It is always better to buy the right thing to begin with than buying something "not quite right" just to get by. Buying the right thing initially will prevent that storeroom of little used things that we "experimented with and failed". I have been growing for decades and have improved my growing equipment as our knowledge about what works best has expanded. And it will. Buy the best you can and you will not be sorry. You will be repaid by a bountiful harvest.

 

[Brohio]

Brohio u checking out the light posts