Trimming / Budding Experiment

[Hick]

demand.. .. yes, give me pictures or else!.. :hitchair:..
Pictures are the "only" way we have of keeping you honest. .. Pictures at harvest do not show us anything, but your harvested plants. It doesn't provide a way of following along and watching the development or 'lack' of.. Not being "holier-than-thou".. or nasty, just observing and stating the facts.

 

[legalize_freedom]

Just a quick question...you say your plants are in different size pots as of right now? Am I understanding this correctly? If that is the case the experiment is already not valid if you are doing a comparison of the same plants in differnt pot sizes.

Here is what I suggest for you...you can take it or leave it, but in order to do a good experiment you have to have everything the same from the start. So with that in mind, why not wait untill your clones are ready in a few months, maybe by then you will have a camera to document the whole thing from start to finish. 1) all clones should be the same age, from the same mother 2) they should all be in equal size pots 3) they should all have the exact same medium 4) all fed the same nutes, at the same time. 5) all vegged and bloomed on the same schedules. 6) you should do as many as possable at the same time, this will give you accuracy say you have 6 clones from the same mother, do 3 with and 3 without leaves that will give you a better idea, rather than just one...one may be a freak..3 will give you a better over all idea...get my drift?

I'm not a scientist, I'm sure someone else on here could give you better ideas for controls...I'm just saying these as an example. I know you already have one trimmed, so maybe you will see enough off the one to feel like you don't need to attempt this again...I dunno, just my thoughts.

 

[ASEgrower]

And your comment (and the way you say it) about a camera demonstrates you are (forgive me) arrogant American who thinks the whole world has the same standard of living as you. Cameras are a luxury in my country, and especially in my socio-economic class, and not a common item as they are in USA with blackberries, 2 or 3 or more cars per household etc..

You know, your comment shows jealousy and ignorance also. I live in America. In my household we have no cell phone, 1 car that is 22 years old and a hand me down digital camera purchased used. The ideal American life you speak of is no longer in existance here.

BTW, usually when a person talks the way you do about something being impossible or your socio-economic class it demonstrates laziness. You want a digital camera? Get yourself a better job and get one. I wont apologize because my country believes in hard work and reaping the benefits.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

demand.. .. yes, give me pictures or else!.. :hitchair:..
Pictures are the "only" way we have of keeping you honest. .. Pictures at harvest do not show us anything, but your harvested plants. It doesn't provide a way of following along and watching the development or 'lack' of.. Not being "holier-than-thou".. or nasty, just observing and stating the facts.

Indeed, you are not being holier-than-thou or nasty. Your tone is kind, and your points are noted and well-taken.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

Just a quick question...you say your plants are in different size pots as of right now? Am I understanding this correctly? If that is the case the experiment is already not valid if you are doing a comparison of the same plants in differnt pot sizes.

Here is what I suggest for you...you can take it or leave it, but in order to do a good experiment you have to have everything the same from the start. So with that in mind, why not wait untill your clones are ready in a few months, maybe by then you will have a camera to document the whole thing from start to finish. 1) all clones should be the same age, from the same mother 2) they should all be in equal size pots 3) they should all have the exact same medium 4) all fed the same nutes, at the same time. 5) all vegged and bloomed on the same schedules. 6) you should do as many as possable at the same time, this will give you accuracy say you have 6 clones from the same mother, do 3 with and 3 without leaves that will give you a better idea, rather than just one...one may be a freak..3 will give you a better over all idea...get my drift?

I'm not a scientist, I'm sure someone else on here could give you better ideas for controls...I'm just saying these as an example. I know you already have one trimmed, so maybe you will see enough off the one to feel like you don't need to attempt this again...I dunno, just my thoughts.

Yes, it would seem that in order to truly prove or disprove the theory that fan leaves cannot or should not be removed, your controls seems like good methods to ensure the results are as accurate as possible.

Because my clones are of different ages in different pots, then the results I would observe and/or provide would not be valid.

So, I will just observe what goes on, and maybe provide pictures of the harvest regardless of the experiment.

Maybe someone else is willing to take on this mission because I don't have the set up or the time to use all the good controls that were suggested. After I finish this crop (for seeds), and I going to try breeding my cloned male and cloned female (just for kicks) to produce seeds from the same (i.e. cloned) mother and father. After this, I will grow the same mother (another clone) sinsemilla, and then after this I would like to order a new strain and grow from seed. I am thinking I would like to try Strawberry Cough for its anti-anxiety high that I read so much about.

If the experiment is invalid from a scientific method perspective, so be it. What's done is done. The fan leaves are gone, and now it's all about observation.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

You know, your comment shows jealousy and ignorance also. I live in America. In my household we have no cell phone, 1 car that is 22 years old and a hand me down digital camera purchased used. The ideal American life you speak of is no longer in existance here.

BTW, usually when a person talks the way you do about something being impossible or your socio-economic class it demonstrates laziness. You want a digital camera? Get yourself a better job and get one. I wont apologize because my country believes in hard work and reaping the benefits.

I won't be dragged into an argument, but a few points:

1.) I am from America; no jealously here - I left that empty materialistic life because it is just a rat-race to keep up with the Jones to consume and have more.

2.) I did not say all Americans were like this. Only that the comment from Hg demonstrated this arrogant attitude, "Jeez, get a camera", i.e. "who can't afford a friggin' camera? - loser!" Well, I can't, as well as many others.

3.) Your statement, "You are lazy, get a better job", really demonstrates your ignorance. Ok, poor woman in Africa, your poverty is your own doing. Get your behind off the ground and go work for 1 dollar a day. Not enough money? Go find a better job... You see, the rest of the world works very hard, but it ain't so easy to just go "find a job". Pay is less in countries outside of USA, and costs are higher. So if I make 1/2 and things cost double, you can do the math as to priorities: rent, food, clothes, bills, transportation to/from work, wife, children, etc.

Nuff said.

 

[Hick]

hxxp://www.multi-cam.net/digital_camera_dc30.html
hxxp://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=EZ-802&cat=CAM
theres one for $12 nd another for $20... just say it, "I don't want a camera" not I can't afford one. Both are less than one month of internet service, less than a bag of good dirt, a single bottle of nutrients, a clone, or a pack of seeds.
If you really 'wanted' one, it could be accomplished. You could easily pick up that many aluminum cans in a day, or put on dark glasses paint a stick white and sell some pencils on the corner, ...or borrow one, IF you 'really' wanted one.
..BUT, it ain't gonna happen, so it's best dropped. As has been previously stated, the plants being of different age, different sized pots, ect. totally negates the results anyway.
While I'm glad you're doing it for your own observation, without any "control" what so ever in place, I'm not sure you can/will be able to observe anything of significance.

 

[BBFan]

Have to agree with Hick- can't go by the results as there are too many variables. Results will be inconclusive.

Strawberry- Did you just start another thread where you said you live in Calif? I thought you said you didn't live in US? :confused2:

 

[surreptitious]

Just a quick question...you say your plants are in different size pots as of right now? Am I understanding this correctly? If that is the case the experiment is already not valid if you are doing a comparison of the same plants in differnt pot sizes.

Here is what I suggest for you...you can take it or leave it, but in order to do a good experiment you have to have everything the same from the start. So with that in mind, why not wait untill your clones are ready in a few months, maybe by then you will have a camera to document the whole thing from start to finish. 1) all clones should be the same age, from the same mother 2) they should all be in equal size pots 3) they should all have the exact same medium 4) all fed the same nutes, at the same time. 5) all vegged and bloomed on the same schedules. 6) you should do as many as possable at the same time, this will give you accuracy say you have 6 clones from the same mother, do 3 with and 3 without leaves that will give you a better idea, rather than just one...one may be a freak..3 will give you a better over all idea...get my drift?

I'm not a scientist, I'm sure someone else on here could give you better ideas for controls...I'm just saying these as an example. I know you already have one trimmed, so maybe you will see enough off the one to feel like you don't need to attempt this again...I dunno, just my thoughts.

scientific method FTW!

 

[CungaBreath]

For what it's worth....I was browsing some seed bank sites yesterday and came across a strain and started reading the breeders description. After all the typical hype he said...."cut the fan leaves off before the last two weeks to help increase yield"

Hopefully I can find that seed bank again and provide a link for everyone. At the time I didn't think to much about it and can't remember which one I was looking at. :doh:

and no...I don't have pictures

 

[surreptitious]

She said that she's from America. Doesnt neccesarily mean she's living in America.

Not a clue about the Cali MJ laws in the sig.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

just say it, "I don't want a camera" not I can't afford one. Both are less than one month of internet service, less than a bag of good dirt, a single bottle of nutrients, a clone, or a pack of seeds.
If you really 'wanted' one, it could be accomplished. You could easily pick up that many aluminum cans in a day, or put on dark glasses paint a stick white and sell some pencils on the corner, ...or borrow one, IF you 'really' wanted one. ..BUT, it ain't gonna happen, so it's best dropped.

As has been previously stated, the plants being of different age, different sized pots, ect. totally negates the results anyway.
While I'm glad you're doing it for your own observation, without any "control" what so ever in place, I'm not sure you can/will be able to observe anything of significance.

I don't want to buy cheap and have it break and waste money. I only buy quality, and prefer to wait for quality.

Yes, too many controls make it not an objective, scientific experiment. It will be only a subjective, personal observation now.

For what it's worth....I was browsing some seed bank sites yesterday and came across a strain and started reading the breeders description. After all the typical hype he said...."cut the fan leaves off before the last two weeks to help increase yield"

Hopefully I can find that seed bank again and provide a link for everyone. At the time I didn't think to much about it and can't remember which one I was looking at. :doh:

and no...I don't have pictures

You can google the phrase as best you remember it, and you might find the results show up in google - even so, this is very, very interesting. So there are those breeders who actually recommend this practice. Then there must be something to this theory. Is there any grower out there who can take on this mission with the necessary scientific controls?

I am not in California. In another post I wrote encouragement for California voters to vote yes to legalize. I even used that as my signature.

Just some personal observations:

The MJ plant wants so badly to survive, the plant will keep growing if fan leaves are cut off. I am observing so much more "delicate" growth at each bud site (and its surrounding leaves) - which is of course at every node; I reckon the plant is compensating for losing its fan leaves by growing vigorously from every other green/leafy point left remaining.

I don't know if the buds will grow bigger, but they are definitely growing "different".

The fan leaves do provide food reserves for the plant as it grows. It takes what it needs/lacks from the fan leaves. You will notice some leaves turn yellow or brown and/or dry out (sometimes turn colors but not dry out!).

But LIGHT is a critical factor, and trimming is (or can be) beneficial to try to emulate the natural "pervasiveness" of natural sunlight. Outdoors one need not trim because the sunshine simply pervades everywhere, but indoors, especially with one light direction trimming can be very helpful.

I would like to further clarify what I did: I remove all large fan leaves.

All bud sites and "mini-fan leaves" were left.

The buds will increase energy to compensate by investing in their "mini-fan leaves", and more of the plants bud sites get more needed light. These mini fan leaves also have more THC trich production than the larger fan leaves.

 

[Hick]

"And your comment (and the way you say it) about a camera demonstrates you are (forgive me) arrogant American who thinks the whole world has the same standard of living as you. Cameras are a luxury in my country, and especially in my socio-economic class, and not a common item as they are in USA with blackberries, 2 or 3 or more cars per household etc."............I am legal for Medical Marijuana..............1.) I am from America; no jealously here - ...I only buy quality, and prefer to wait for quality.

Lotsa' word games it looks like to "me"... NOT lending credibility to your cause.

trimming can be very helpful.

I've about had a bellyfull.... I nor the community need allow you to further dispell the facts. Cutting off the fan leaves to allow light to parts that can't and don't utilize it to its potential is NOT beneficial. I won't allow you to "SAY" it is, without "proof".. Proof being pictures showing that all of the botany world is wrong, and "you" are right.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

Lotsa' word games it looks like to "me"... NOT lending credibility to your cause.


I've about had a bellyfull.... I nor the community need allow you to further dispell the facts. Cutting off the fan leaves to allow light to parts that can't and don't utilize it to its potential is NOT beneficial. I won't allow you to "SAY" it is, without "proof".. Proof being pictures showing that all of the botany world is wrong, and "you" are right.

Wow, I find your last paragraph almost shocking. You won't allow me to state my observations that I believe moderate trimming can be helpful to increase light to the plant?

If this is not a forum for free exchange of information and experience, then what is it? A place to regurgitate techniques read about elsewhere?

It is fact that sun's light penetrates everywhere on the plant in nature because of the wind and the plant being exposed to this very powerful light nearly every where on the plant.

I know I am not the only one who believes trimming can be helpful, as indicated by the comments that this is an ongoing debate, and someone asking that I might take pictures so that any proof might be posted as a sticky.

Will you censor 4u2smoke for all his experiments? Grafting two types of marijuana is by no means conventional, but will you "not allow" him to share his observations of his alternative ways of doing things?

Or is it a matter of post pictures or else? Post pictures or you are wrong.

Sorry, no camera. How about you Hick take on the mission of doing the scientifically controlled experiment and prove to me and others that moderate trimming under any circumstances is wrong - prove it to us with pictures please.

 

[Strawberry Cough]

Listen To Me One & All: I Am Not Advocating Chopping Off All Leaves.

I Trimmed As An Experiment To See If This Can Help Increase Light Penetration & Thus Bud Production.

Do Not Misunderstand This As Definitive Advice To Chop Off All Leaves.

I Am Taking Break From This Forum - Too Many Of You Are Too Uptight And Attack And Berate For Taking A Chance And Experimenting.

 

[zem]

SC you are correcting your mistake with a bigger one, why not admit the mistake and move on with what's right?? these claims that fan leaf cutting is good are just wrong you're not inventing the wheel with this "experiment" and you're sacrificing your plants as we try help you and you're being sadistic to your MJ and the main reason we are here is to help one another with growing we dont like to see someone kill his grow just cuz hes not listening to good advise and worse you're spreading your methods around

 

[Hick]

Wow, I find your last paragraph almost shocking. You won't allow me to state my observations that I believe moderate trimming can be helpful to increase light to the plant?

If this is not a forum for free exchange of information and experience, then what is it? A place to regurgitate techniques read about elsewhere?

It is fact that sun's light penetrates everywhere on the plant in nature because of the wind and the plant being exposed to this very powerful light nearly every where on the plant.

I know I am not the only one who believes trimming can be helpful, as indicated by the comments that this is an ongoing debate, and someone asking that I might take pictures so that any proof might be posted as a sticky.

Will you censor 4u2smoke for all his experiments? Grafting two types of marijuana is by no means conventional, but will you "not allow" him to share his observations of his alternative ways of doing things?

Or is it a matter of post pictures or else? Post pictures or you are wrong.

Sorry, no camera. How about you Hick take on the mission of doing the scientifically controlled experiment and prove to me and others that moderate trimming under any circumstances is wrong - prove it to us with pictures please.

...I'm not telling you that you can't "freely exchange information".. but I won't/can't allow you to state mis-truths as fact or advise others to ... not with a clear conscience...

Or is it a matter of post pictures or else? Post pictures or you are wrong.

It will require pictures, and documentation.. for me to consider your observations with any serious validity. "IMO" you have already shown that your "word" is questionable, at best. With the obvious deceptive "legal mmj".. "in/out of country" mumbo-jumbo, double talk.

How about you Hick take on the mission of doing the scientifically controlled experiment

WHY???.. I already know that it will have a negative impact. It's been proven time and again. I proved it to myself 20 years ago. I'm not just talking out a hole in my hat.

Will you censor 4u2smoke for all his experiments? Grafting two types of marijuana is by no means conventional, but will you "not allow" him to share his observations of his alternative ways of doing things?

Is he telling people that grafting their plants will result in bigger, better, more potent buds?.. Is he doing it, and claiming success without documentation/proof?...

Listen To Me One & All: I Am Not Advocating Chopping Off All Leaves.

I Trimmed As An Experiment To See If This Can Help Increase Light Penetration & Thus Bud Production.

Do Not Misunderstand This As Definitive Advice To Chop Off All Leaves.

I Am Taking Break From This Forum - Too Many Of You Are Too Uptight And Attack And Berate For Taking A Chance And Experimenting.

NOW THERE YOU GO!! now you're with the program As long as you are not making false claims and/or advising folks to follow your procedure, I'm with your experiment 100%... :hubba: nobody is 'berating' you for experimenting..

 

[BBFan]

WHY???.. I already know that it will have a negative impact. It's been proven time and again. I proved it to myself 20 years ago. I'm not just talking out a hole in my hat.

Hey thar Hick!

I got some foil you can use to patch up that hole if it gets to bothersome!

 

[Hick]

.:rofl:.........

 

[Strawberry Cough]

With all due respect, Hick, it seems you don't what is "advise", and what is simply sharing my own personal experiment and observations.

Perhaps you should go back and read the thread from the beginning and read what I have said.